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Old Jul 24, 2012, 06:46 PM   #51
Slivortal
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Originally Posted by sevoneone View Post
That is the interesting question isn't it? It seems like for the first time that all the big advancements and progressions are being driven from the consumer side. For nearly all of tech history, and certainly the history of personal computers, the big advancements came from the high-end profesional markets and trickled down into the consumers hands once the tech became affordable. Now, lots of advancements are going the opposite way. What was pioneered in smart phones has tricked up to tablets, and now what is working with those technologies is trickling up to the personal computer. It is going to be really exciting to see how it all shakes out.
It's actually more disappointing than exciting. The reason that all the changes are coming from the consumer end is because professional markets are no longer coming up with good ideas. CPUs have pretty much reached a standstill until a material switch from silicone (which dooms legacy equipment), software speeds have pretty much reached a standstill until an architecture change from ARM/x86 (which also dooms legacy equipment).

There's just so much legacy equipment in place that the big change is never going to happen.

So what's happening now is that consumers are starting to focus more on consumption-end changes, which makes

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Originally Posted by flux73 View Post
Flood123 deleted his post, but I don't think it's far-fetched or ridiculous at all either. A couple of years ago I read an article on one of the tech websites that predicted a "three-screen" strategy, and it makes too much sense to ignore. The theory is that Apple is moving towards a convergence of hardware (and software to a degree) platforms so that ideally, a consumer would own a large screen (iTV), medium screen (iPad) and a small screen (iPhone). All would provide access to the same content, thus allowing you to consume or utilize the content anywhere you were with obvious tradeoffs of portability vs screen size. Most techies blow this off because they think it's ridiculous that they would get rid of Mac. I don't think Apple necessarily plans to get rid of the Mac, just that it would be marginalized. Most tech geeks just don't realize how much in the minority we are.

I think Steve probably realized awhile back that most people don't use the applications that us tech geeks "need" a computer for - website programming, photoshop, design work, etc. iOS is designed to optimize content consumption, rather than creation. Content creation is only utilized by a small percentage of the population. Thus, as more and more people get an iPad, they'll completely forego getting a PC or Mac. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see Apple release a hybrid iPad/iMac - an iPad with a 20" screen that you use on a desktop. It could serve as a fourth device for those who want something on their desktop that has more screen real estate than their iPad.

I know a lot of people will disagree with the above sentiment, but I've observed this recently with my own parents whom I gave my old Macbook Pro to, a couple of years ago. When I recently convinced them to get an iPad, they really liked it (OS X still confuses them), and have started using the Macbook less and less in spite of the smaller screen size.
Website programming, photoshop, and design work are nothing - what about computer research? You know, us guys who are plugging away at the Terminal and filesystem, interacting with the kernel 8 hours a day? Puts the rest of you to shame...

But really, this is what I see happening in the future. Look at the iOSification of OSX. Look at Apple's market - 77% iOS, 14% OSX. Look at the slippery slope that's starting to occur as Apple keeps adding features like Gatekeeper, that regard anything not directly from Apple as "dangerous."

Apple is starting to perfect their walled garden - and I, for one, am not pleased with this perfection...

And I guess if schools start using iPads we won't have to ever worry about the computer science field ever being flooded - filesystem? command line? what are you talking about?

Soon enough I feel that OSX will have to be delegated to just a small 8GB partition in the back of my hard drive and have Ubuntu take over - that is, if Apple's still kind enough to let me install "third-party software."

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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
Actually, to any software developer it is quite obvious that there is no convergence at all where it counts to end users, and that is in the user interface. Technologies are converging, which is beneficial to all the developers, but not the UI.

On the other hand, it seems that Microsoft got it just as wrong as you did when they start their copiers and produced Windows 8 - perfect convergence between desktop and tablet with the result that you can't use it on either
At least W8 is a full operating system, complete with command-line, filesystem, third-party apps, and most likely the ability to run other full-fledged OSs like Linux distros.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 06:46 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by flux73 View Post
Flood123 deleted his post, but I don't think it's far-fetched or ridiculous at all either.
Old post restored.
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Originally Posted by Slivortal View Post
Website programming, photoshop, and design work are nothing - what about computer research? You know, us guys who are plugging away at the Terminal and filesystem, interacting with the kernel 8 hours a day? Puts the rest of you to shame...
I think its not a bad home solution for MOST people. Power users are always going to need a work station with lots of horsepower. My thought was just more for a wall hanging solution that handled the same functionality. Hopefully not touch screen. developers creating content to be consumed will ALWAY need power. Personally I am a web developer professionally and an audio engineer hobbyist. I get where you are coming from. Believe me.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 06:52 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
Nobody is disappointed.

There are those who are quite Ok with Apple's results.
It is the day-traders who are disappointed, not the sane rest of us.

----------

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Originally Posted by zzLZHzz View Post
he obviously can't say that a new apple tv is in the work. that against the secrecy that they have. but i am sure something working out in the lab.
I don't mean that, but he could shown a bit more realistic picture of the present use and importance of the CURRENT Apple TV. Why the HECK do they keep referring to it has a hobby niche type device? It kind of shows me that they don't even understand their own product or its potential.

That does kind of explain why we haven't seen an analog out or wifi router built in though. They can't seem to think outside the living room (i.e. typical consumer use).
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:01 PM   #54
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Apple TV will be huge..... when Apple opens the SDK and allows developers to make apps for it.

It is not about the sales number. It is about the installed base. Apple is doing a stealth attack. Build up the installed base first. When it is about 10 millions, it can make a good case for the developers to make apps, which will in turn drive the hardware sales.

If Apple opens the SDK too early, everyone will only see the sales number at 1 million per quarter, which is not enough as a platform.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:03 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Flood123 View Post
Old post restored.


I think its not a bad home solution for MOST people. Power users are always going to need a work station with lots of horsepower. My thought was just more for a wall hanging solution that handled the same functionality. Hopefully not touch screen. developers creating content to be consumed will ALWAY need power. Personally I am a web developer professionally and an audio engineer hobbyist. I get where you are coming from. Believe me.
Oh, I was arguing that Apple was becoming a terrible choice for computer scientists as well. But instead of it being purely a power issue (VMs anyone), it's more an issue of how Apple seems to be locking down its technology to any sort of manipulation. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple takes superuser privileges away from us in the near future because they're "too dangerous".
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:10 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Big-TDI-Guy View Post
Ok - so there's no downvote button (for now) - so I'll say it out loud. (And still be bludgeoned for it)

For the first time in a long time - I'm not remotely excited about what Apple has in store for the remainder of this year. Something isn't there - that once was...

I know, I'm a horrible person.
It was 6 years after the iPod that the iPhone was released. It was another 3 for the iPad. In between, Apple did a lot of refining. We are in another refinement phase. A 13" MacBook Pro with Retina Display (if true), an LTE iPhone, and possibly a smaller iPad would be fairly significant.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:14 PM   #57
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Come on Fall notebook update and refurbished MacBook Pros!
I wonder if that will actually happen this time. While the parts were there, Apple still allowed the mini to languish. With the notebooks they bumped things as Ivy was already looking pretty far out. Haswell may be the same if they don't want it to come well before Ivy E (my new name for it).
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:16 PM   #58
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For all your smarts I think you need a social intelligence refresher.
Acceptance of Ignorance is not Social Intelligence. It is Tolerance. I have no tolerance for ignorance on the subject of financials and I doubt the shareholders do either.

----------

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Originally Posted by thekev View Post
I'd suggest you learn not to take troll bait. That one should have been fairly obvious. As to workshops, I'd suggest a less biased source. Taking a workshop from a company who takes a direct commission on your trades doesn't seem like a good idea.
Points taken.

As for the bias.. I just shot out the first two brokers that came to mind. Not my preference. My bad.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:18 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by MultiMediaWill View Post
So disappointing that Apple failed so greatly on their earnings last quarter.
They still made a crapload of money, in their quiet quarter. Better than almost the entire PC market's losses or razor-thin margins, and much better than Microsoft's first-time-ever loss.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:22 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
Nobody is disappointed.

There are those who are quite Ok with Apple's results.
And there are those who are jealous and claim to be disappointed.

21 million iPads and Macs makes Apple the #1 computer maker this quarter. Why would anybody be disappointed?
iPads are included in the number of computers sold? An iPad isn't a full fledged computer.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:23 PM   #61
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iLove my ATV
Heck yeah!
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:35 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Slivortal View Post
At least W8 is a full operating system, complete with command-line, filesystem, third-party apps, and most likely the ability to run other full-fledged OSs like Linux distros.
Exactly what all the iPad users have been asking for.


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Originally Posted by Jb07 View Post
iPads are included in the number of computers sold? An iPad isn't a full fledged computer.
You don't _have_ to count them. On the other hand, if you were a PC maker, would you ignore iPads and what they mean to your sales? If you were a software developer, would you ignore iPads and what they mean to your sales?


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Ba bah ba bah......etc...
Is that a song I should recognize?

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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:37 PM   #63
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Exactly what all the iPad users have been asking for.
I've bought all 3 iPad generations and I'm looking forward to the Surface tablets.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:39 PM   #64
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for the most part agreed. this shouldn't be an indication that apple is suddenly going to go bankrupt and lose money.

But if you look at the big picture. The lack of anything truly new this year (all revisions to existing products), plus pissing off a lot of people with the non stop litigations in attempt to limit competition, one can't help but speculate that something isn't entirely right.

Nothing i'd freak out over though. in the current product segments I think we have just finally hit saturation point. it's future new products that will be Telling. The last 2 years or so has seen the world of mobile communications explode more than we've ever seen in the past. hence record profits year after year. At some point, there's just not enough new people to sell too.

the big tell will be in 6mo to a year. if Apple doesn't come out with something to spur on new markets and continue to slide, Then you might be afraid. (but i'm convinced the time of record profits for everyone is behind us)
I respectfully think you're all way off and many are reading far too much into it and maybe missing a big point ... The WORLD economy isn't in great shape!

It's tough times for Europeans, sales of everything are way down, things in China are slower, USA hasn't recovered yet, consumers are cautious in Canada ... everything considered Apple's numbers are nothing but excellent.

What's impacting stock is the super high expectations people have of Apple, consumers want everything new and faster and faster.

To read people's words here saying "Apple hasn't done much with exciting products so far this year" ... what the ef? They've done more this year than other pc company's do in five...

The problem with Apple is they're too good and people get anxious with false hope and unrealistic expectations.

Man, they apply for patents, the Patent Office reviews and grants them. And, when Apple thinks their patents are violated they enforce them and people flip out. Meanwhile other tech companies are suing each other to death and there's rarely a whisper of it. Leave Apple's patent business to a judge and let it go, no one here knows enough detail about the litigation to be able to form an accurate opinion or judgement on it. Freaking soap opera created by techies and geeks - too much.

Apple's going to be just fine.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:50 PM   #65
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The worldwide economy sucks right now. And many are saying its heading towards another recession. To think Apple could remain immune from it forever is ridiculous. Tim Cook said Apple under performed in Europe. Wow what a shock.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:57 PM   #66
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So disappointing that Apple failed so greatly on their earnings last quarter.
Apple didn't fail. The analysts and so-called pundits did. What this shows is that for all their "research" and resources they put into estimating Apple's numbers, they're as clueless as the rest of us.

Also, you have to remember that the analysts were getting killed by the press for coming in so low quarter after quarter so they've been inflating their numbers to avoid embarrassment.

Apple's P/E compression will only make their stock jump that much more after the next gen iPhone is launched so I see a major buying opportunity if the stock dips to the 550 range.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:58 PM   #67
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Apple didn't fail. The analysts and so-called pundits did. What this shows is that for all their "research" and resources they put into estimating Apple's numbers, they're as clueless as the rest of us.

Also, you have to remember that the analysts were getting killed by the press for coming in so low quarter after quarter so they've been inflating their numbers to avoid embarrassment.

Apple's P/E compression will only make their stock jump that much more after the next gen iPhone is launched so I see a major buying opportunity if the stock dips to the 550 range.
They'll never be in the BRK-A range.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 08:03 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by SteveW928 View Post

[/COLOR]

I don't mean that, but he could shown a bit more realistic picture of the present use and importance of the CURRENT Apple TV. Why the HECK do they keep referring to it has a hobby niche type device? It kind of shows me that they don't even understand their own product or its potential.

I hope you don't seriously believe that. It's been called a "hobby" since introduced and aapl will continue to call it that until it's ready. Aapl is fully aware of its potential and knows exactly where the iTV is headed.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 08:41 PM   #69
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I think that people are finally getting what Steve has been saying.

1. Get rid of the filesystem and you'll have more people "get it"
2. Get rid of multiple windowed environments and that too eases things

That being said I do not see iOS and OS X merging at anything other than the layers below the initial UI and GUI. There's really no need to merge them.

Where as I have gone the other way. I used to use my ipad constantly, but now using it less and less, because of the restrictions around file system, lack of multiple windowed environments.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 08:58 PM   #70
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Where as I have gone the other way. I used to use my ipad constantly, but now using it less and less, because of the restrictions around file system, lack of multiple windowed environments.
When I do content creation I want to use my Mac but when I grab my iPad the last thing I want to do is mess with a filesystem or manage windows. I get Apple's point here.

They're not saying computers don't need to exist but rather the needs of consumers can be met in an easier fashion. I endorse this ideology.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 09:18 PM   #71
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Maybe if they released the updated iMac the rumors would stop... at least for the quarter
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 09:22 PM   #72
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Yeah Pete but where are the exciting products anyway? The last two years you basically just stuck two high pixel count screens others have made to two of your devices, and kept the same iPhone design for 2 years in a row (albeit v.2 had a working antenna).

Isn't it high time apple stopped bs-ing and started actually releasing some "exciting" products.

(hint: you need to pay some money from this wold record breaking stash you have in the bank.)
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 09:25 PM   #73
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Screw this fall transition, mac updates are way beyond over due, I want to scream when I go into apple and see people buying out-dated technology from last year at the same price...
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 09:26 PM   #74
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But if you look at the big picture. The lack of anything truly new this year (all revisions to existing products), plus pissing off a lot of people with the non stop litigations in attempt to limit competition, one can't help but speculate that something isn't entirely right.

Nothing i'd freak out over though. in the current product segments I think we have just finally hit saturation point. it's future new products that will be Telling. The last 2 years or so has seen the world of mobile communications explode more than we've ever seen in the past. hence record profits year after year. At some point, there's just not enough new people to sell too.
Lack of anything truly new? What crack are you smoking?

Lets see...last new product was the iPad in 2010. Before that it was the iPhone in 2007.

Truly 'new' is something that only happens every 3-4 years.

Now in the last 4 months they've brought out the new iPad with Retina and the new Mac Book Pro with Retina...both products whose reviews put them at the TOP of their product categories. And they still haven't brought out possibly the new iPad Mini, the new iMac Retina, the mythical TV and the obvious iPhone 5.

So tell me again how Apple is lacking in something new?

The litigation? Please. Apple has every right to defend and also sue those that are trying to ride on it's R&D and Design.

Lastly..saturation point? Again, what are you SMOKING??? They aren't even CLOSE to saturation with ANY of their products and their market segments have HUGE growth potential...especially in tablets, phones and especially in China.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 09:36 PM   #75
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Hmm, I'm starting to worry a bit about Cook. He seems to be depending more on spreadsheets than a good understanding of the industry. Apple TV a hobby? Not enough numbers units moved? How about the fact that Apple TV is being used for AirPlay to support all kinds of uses (from iPads and iPhones, and soon from OSX boxes). He can't seriously believe that at this point it is only a hobby in the living room type device, can he?
I read the word 'hobby' to mean that it is currently small potatoes at Apple...not that it is a hobby for consumers. It is a small but interesting market, and they aren't going to abandon it until they see where it goes.
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