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Old Jul 24, 2012, 09:41 PM   #76
blow45
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Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
Lack of anything truly new? What crack are you smoking?

Lets see...last new product was the iPad in 2010. Before that it was the iPhone in 2007.

Truly 'new' is something that only happens every 3-4 years.

Now in the last 4 months they've brought out the new iPad with Retina and the new Mac Book Pro with Retina...both products whose reviews put them at the TOP of their product categories. And they still haven't brought out possibly the new iPad Mini, the new iMac Retina, the mythical TV and the obvious iPhone 5.

So tell me again how Apple is lacking in something new?

The litigation? Please. Apple has every right to defend and also sue those that are trying to ride on it's R&D and Design.

Lastly..saturation point? Again, what are you SMOKING??? They aren't even CLOSE to saturation with ANY of their products and their market segments have HUGE growth potential...especially in tablets, phones and especially in China.
You might want to tell us then what you ar drinking I guess...

A couple of better screens on two devices is something we should be happy about? One stagnant os (iOS) and one actually going backwards in speed and ease of use(os x)? A phone redesigned in two years to nothing new but a working antenna and Siri ( and boy does that work well..). iMacs with the same form factor, ergonomics, and that sordid glass glare layer since 2006? Mac pro with no usb3 in 2012?

Yeah these are some very impressive products... No wonder their profits are under pretty much every analysts predictions...
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 09:58 PM   #77
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You might want to tell us then what you ar drinking I guess...

A couple of better screens on two devices is something we should be happy about? One stagnant os (iOS) and one actually going backwards in speed and ease of use(os x)? A phone redesigned in two years to nothing new but a working antenna and Siri ( and boy does that work well..). iMacs with the same form factor, ergonomics, and that sordid glass glare layer since 2006? Mac pro with no usb3 in 2012?

Yeah these are some very impressive products... No wonder their profits are under pretty much every analysts predictions...

Ouch !!

But you're kinda right!
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 10:01 PM   #78
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A couple of better screens on two devices is something we should be happy about?
iPad: 17 million units, up 83.9% says yes you should be happy about it. 17 million are.

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Originally Posted by blow45 View Post
Yeah these are some very impressive products... No wonder their profits are under pretty much every analysts predictions...
Impressive enough that their sales from last year are up. What about that saturation again?

Sales: $35.023 billion, up 22.5% year over year
Sales: $8.8 billion, up 21%
EPS: $9.32, up 19.6%
iPhone: 26 million units, up 28%
iPad: 17 million units, up 83.9%
Mac: 4 million units, up 1.3%, compared with -1% for the PC market
iPod: 6.8 million units, down 9.8%, over half iPod touch
Apple TV: 1.4 million units, up 170%. 4 million so far this fiscal year

And please don't bring up analysts. They have no clue what they are forecasting..that's why they are called PREDICTIONS.

Apple gave their guidance and beat it and knows whats in the pipeline and whats ahead. They told everyone that this last quarter would not be amazing/blowout due to various factors.

Last edited by Ryth; Jul 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 10:04 PM   #79
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So disappointing that Apple failed so greatly on their earnings last quarter.
No Worries, only _some_ of Apples revenue is actually being reported.

"Apple leaves cash overseas. If it brought it home to the U.S., it would have to pay federal income taxes on the money. (though it would get a credit for foreign taxes already paid)

In Apple's case, those overseas accounts have grown to a staggering $74 billion — equal to the market value of Citigroup Inc."

Apple doesn't miss a trick


source: http://www.ajc.com/business/how-appl...src=cb_article
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 10:19 PM   #80
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A PC is a tool you have to use, a Mac is a tool you love to use.
And giant tech corporations are tools that use you.....
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 10:22 PM   #81
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I think Apple is out of ideas. Seriously. Apple relies 90% on the iOS platform and well, there just ain't anything left to sell for new units....oh, unless you count that (yawn) iPad Mini coming this Fall. Whoopedy Dooo. What's next? An iPad Nano? Yawn again. iPhone 6? Zzzzzzzzzzz. Apple is/has all its eggs in 1 basket.

Apple has been yapping about Apple TV/the wave of television for years, especially almost a year ago with Jobs' death. Here we are...practically a full year later and not even the slightest whiff of a rumor.

The entire Mac line has been on a see-saw for 5+ years now...some iMacs take literally YEARS to be updated...some are renamed for marketing gimmicks...Mac Mini prices go up $100 (25%) for no reason at all, etc.

Unless Apple announces some kind of product breakthrough in the next 12 months (no, I don't count an iPad Mini a breakthrough) then Apple's stock is going to be 1/10th the value come August 2013. I don't follow stocks...but Apple, as a company, has been riding the iOS gravy train for years and now that train is near its final destination.

I'd like to see Apple continue to innovate and come up with FRESH NEW ideas...but my gut tells me Apple's iPad/iPhone/iPod/iOS train is getting old...fast, now that it's been essentially 10 years. Apple has always loved the rumor mill but other than the iPhone 5 and iPad Mini (double yawn), those aren't rumors...those are yearly expectations of new models...there are no rumors...no new products...no major changes...no groundbreaking achievements. These are the "normal" rumors we hear about Apple every year or so and frankly there hasn't been a rumor like that since 2010.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 10:23 PM   #82
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Whats interesting with a 25% increase in year over year revenues Apples main revenue generating machine dropped from 57% of last years 3rd quarter fiscal revenue to 46% of the this years revenue. It means that Apple is eating their own lunch. Most of that gain has came from the iPad but its still a encouraging sign that Apple is moving the ball forward. And with all this talk of a Apple TV I wouldn't been surprised if it start to take up at significant amount of the revenue in a few years.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 10:27 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by ericinboston View Post
I think Apple is out of ideas. Seriously. Apple relies 90% on the iOS platform and well, there just ain't anything left to sell for new units....oh, unless you count that (yawn) iPad Mini coming this Fall. Whoopedy Dooo. What's next? An iPad Nano? Yawn again. iPhone 6? Zzzzzzzzzzz. Apple is/has all its eggs in 1 basket.

Apple has been yapping about Apple TV/the wave of television for years, especially almost a year ago with Jobs' death. Here we are...practically a full year later and not even the slightest whiff of a rumor.

The entire Mac line has been on a see-saw for 5+ years now...some iMacs take literally YEARS to be updated...some are renamed for marketing gimmicks...Mac Mini prices go up $100 (25%) for no reason at all, etc.

Unless Apple announces some kind of product breakthrough in the next 12 months (no, I don't count an iPad Mini a breakthrough) then Apple's stock is going to be 1/10th the value come August 2013. I don't follow stocks...but Apple, as a company, has been riding the iOS gravy train for years and now that train is near its final destination.

I'd like to see Apple continue to innovate and come up with FRESH NEW ideas...but my gut tells me Apple's iPad/iPhone/iPod/iOS train is getting old...fast, now that it's been essentially 10 years. Apple has always loved the rumor mill but other than the iPhone 5 and iPad Mini (double yawn), those aren't rumors...those are yearly expectations of new models...there are no rumors...no new products...no major changes...no groundbreaking achievements. These are the "normal" rumors we hear about Apple every year or so and frankly there hasn't been a rumor like that since 2010.
Game changing devices don't come every year or every two years. That's just unrealistic and honestly many people have this delusional view that completely mind blowing ideas/devices need to come out every year. That's just not possible with design/R&D, development, etc.

Can you please tell me one game changing/disruptive device that has come from Google ever? Did you see Android phones before Eric Schmidtt stole the iPhone design?

Apple came out with the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad and the MBAir..all in the last 10 years...all are game changing devices that literally upset/disrupted their product categories and put many competitors out of business. Tell me any company that has come out with products like that in such a short time frame for technology that have literally changed each industry...music, mobile, mobile computing (air), computing (iPad) and now possibly TV coming up?
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 10:40 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
And please don't bring up analysts. They have no clue what they are forecasting..that's why they are called PREDICTIONS.
Umm...exactly?

Quote:
Apple gave their guidance and beat it and knows whats in the pipeline and whats ahead. They told everyone that this last quarter would not be amazing/blowout due to various factors.
Their guidance is usually extraordinarily conservative and, if you had invested based off of Apple's own estimates rather than the analysts, you would have lost out on a ton of money due to outperformance of their own estimates over the years.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 10:42 PM   #85
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Fall Transition

Fall Transition = beginning to move every product to a 16:9 aspect ratio to get alignment between iPhone/iPad/iTV.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 10:44 PM   #86
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"The great thing about this country is that people can say what they think and so-forth."

Is it just me or do Americans think they invented free speech, you can say what you think in the vast majority of countries!
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 10:47 PM   #87
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Game changing devices don't come every year or every two years. That's just unrealistic and honestly many people have this delusional view that completely mind blowing ideas/devices need to come out every year. That's just not possible with design/R&D, development, etc.
I completely agree. But Apple's iPad was essentially an iPhone or iPod Touch x4....yes.

Quote:
Can you please tell me one game changing/disruptive device that has come from Google ever? Did you see Android phones before Eric Schmidtt stole the iPhone design?
I really don't follow Google other than their online services like search and maps....but I really don't see Google doing very well in the physical world...they've always been about making money off ads and having free web services.

Quote:
Apple came out with the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad and the MBAir..all in the last 10 years...all are game changing devices that literally upset/disrupted their product categories and put many competitors out of business. Tell me any company that has come out with products like that in such a short time frame for technology that have literally changed each industry...music, mobile, mobile computing (air), computing (iPad) and now possibly TV coming up?
The iPhone and iPad are the same thing...and so is the Touch...sorry to tell you that. Physically different shapes and one has phone call abilities, but those are the only differences. There is so much hoopla about the MBA...yet I've never seen one in public. I'm not saying it's a bad machine, but nobody owns it. I wouldn't call the MBA revolutionary...it's a great machine packed in a tiny space...and? If it were selling for $300 that would be revolutionary...but if I remember correctly it debuted at like $1500 and Apple had to drop the price because nobody was buying it.

Apple is a company that, in the past 10+ years, has made it's success on coming up with grand new ideas. Those grand ideas, IMO, ended with the invention of the iPhone and essentially iOS. It's been the same iOS devices for 5+ years now...new iPhones, new Touches, new iPads, the Macs are trying to adopt it...etc. Again, all the eggs are in 1 basket.

Somebody posted a link where 75% of Apple's income is for the iPhone and iPad and iPod. That can be good and can be bad. Less than 15% of Apple's revenue comes from Macs. If I were a Mac diehard, I would be really worried. But on the other hand, Apple doesn't seem to have the heart/balls to kill the Mac line so it will probably live on forever....it would be like McDonalds no longer selling fries...the golden arches logo is just synonymous with fries just as Apple is synonymous with Macs.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 10:49 PM   #88
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But it could be soooo much better!!! Eg Web browser, more tv channels! And maybe Apps???
You want to browse the internet with the Apple Remote? I get frustrated enough 'typing' in my Apple ID and password, let alone surfing the Web.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 10:50 PM   #89
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"The great thing about this country is that people can say what they think and so-forth."

Is it just me or do Americans think they invented free speech, you can say what you think in the vast majority of countries!
That's what we're taught. Mean ole King George wanted us as mere conscripts subject to endless taxation. So we broke free


Back on topic. Can't wait to see what iOS 6 is gonna bring to the Apple TV besides streaming to Airplay speakers.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 11:38 PM   #90
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So stupid in fact, that Apple is now the richest, top grossing company in the world.
Top grossing? In the top 50 companies, probably.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 11:46 PM   #91
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I hope you don't seriously believe that. It's been called a "hobby" since introduced and aapl will continue to call it that until it's ready. Aapl is fully aware of its potential and knows exactly where the iTV is headed.
I sure hope you're right about that. I'm just seeing a trend of Apple killing off things that don't meet the popularity of the new consumer model. If you're right, then the Apple TV will fit that model... but that still leaves me worrying a bit about the company overall.

----------

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Originally Posted by scarred View Post
I read the word 'hobby' to mean that it is currently small potatoes at Apple...not that it is a hobby for consumers. It is a small but interesting market, and they aren't going to abandon it until they see where it goes.
I read it to mean that it isn't anything mainstream as far as the consumer market goes... that it is kind of a hobby product for the home-theatre crowd yet.

----------

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Originally Posted by leon44 View Post
Is it just me or do Americans think they invented free speech, you can say what you think in the vast majority of countries!
There is a difference between free-speech existing and being tolerated... and being guaranteed by constitution. However, I don't expect it to effectively last all that much longer in the USA either. (cf. Canada)
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 11:52 PM   #92
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Top grossing? In the top 50 companies, probably.
Top 25 actually, maybe top 20 depending on how things shake out.

Much higher in terms of profit.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 12:11 AM   #93
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Ok - so there's no downvote button (for now) - so I'll say it out loud. (And still be bludgeoned for it)

For the first time in a long time - I'm not remotely excited about what Apple has in store for the remainder of this year. Something isn't there - that once was...

I know, I'm a horrible person.
Maybe it's because everything seems so routinely predictable now, there's not much surprise. The new iPhone will be released in x timeframe, The new iPad will be in Y timeframe. Heck, people were even able to guess (if you can call it that) when Mountain Lion would come out: the same as last year, the day after their quarterly earnings call.

Yes, there will be occasional surprises in terms of a little feature here or there, or a spec on such and such, but nothing groundbreaking. People even know what will be the next big thing (TV), and Apple seems not to even try to deny it anymore. So that won't even be a surprise really. The main guessing before a new or updated product comes out is about what they're going to name it!

I'm not saying that Apple's products aren't overwhelmingly great and innovative still. But I guess Apple seems like too well-oiled of a machine. They know what they need to put out and when, and they do this really well (mostly), but it seems they are less into putting out insanely great, inspired products and more into getting what they think the market calls for.

Is Mountain Lion being released now because it is mature and feature-rich? No, it's because it's been a year and they want to release a new OS. I think the timeframe determined what is in the OS, and not the other way around like it used to be (to some extent at least). Was Ping this new visionary service? No, it was apparently just because they had to stick something in when things broke down with Facebook.

I don't know if we'll have another iPod moment when no one sees something coming, people think Apple is crazy, but then we find out they were on to something after all. We can pretty much guess what they're going to do and when. They execute well, but ideas have gone from revolutionary to evolutionary.

Hopefully they will prove me wrong, and maybe ML will get me excited again, but that is how it seems right now and that's why, at least for me, the rest of the year doesn't promise to be exciting.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 12:21 AM   #94
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It is the day-traders who are disappointed, not the sane rest of us.

----------



I don't mean that, but he could shown a bit more realistic picture of the present use and importance of the CURRENT Apple TV. Why the HECK do they keep referring to it has a hobby niche type device? It kind of shows me that they don't even understand their own product or its potential.

That does kind of explain why we haven't seen an analog out or wifi router built in though. They can't seem to think outside the living room (i.e. typical consumer use).
It will be a hobby until it will be replaced with the real Apple TV, which will be a real television. A screen, with everything. Going to cost you $2000-3000 instead of $99. Sounds good? I bet it sounds good in Apple's ears. Apple always has a plan that smells... profit.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 12:39 AM   #95
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Hmm, I'm starting to worry a bit about Cook. He seems to be depending more on spreadsheets than a good understanding of the industry. Apple TV a hobby? Not enough numbers units moved? How about the fact that Apple TV is being used for AirPlay to support all kinds of uses (from iPads and iPhones, and soon from OSX boxes). He can't seriously believe that at this point it is only a hobby in the living room type device, can he?.
I'm not sure there is a market for an enhanced apple tv at this point. When the iPhone first came out it had been rumoured for a long time, and apple were abe to get the product to the right price point. They also had carriers climbing over themselves to be the launch partners.

No one in the media business really wants apple to succeed here as it breaks their business model. On top of that, any apple tv beyond what it is now will be expensive. Last time I looked world economy is not great and landing something brand new out to people (not the core apple fan or early adopters) it unlikely to sell lots if it costs.

Innovation is necessary, but I wonder how long Jobs played with the iPhone design, and the spreadsheets to work out when was the bast time to launch the product?
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 12:43 AM   #96
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I completely agree. But Apple's iPad was essentially an iPhone or iPod Touch x4....yes.

The iPhone and iPad are the same thing...and so is the Touch...sorry to tell you that. Physically different shapes and one has phone call abilities, but those are the only differences.
They aren't the same thing and they all serve different purposes. Not trying to insult you but you sound like Microsoft...and their "All the iPad is is a big iPod touch"

Considering how vastly different they are and their uses, it's just not even remotely true. If you view it as such then you are just closed minded about it and refuse to look beyond the facts.

It’s a significant rethinking of a product category that melds the simple mobile interface created for the iPhone with a new layer of familiar conventions with the full sized sophistication of the Mac OS X desktop, pared to a multitouch user interface.

Your logic is like saying a compact sedan is the same as a minivan and the same as a porsche other then sizes. Well obviously. But everyone knows there are vast differences and uses for those vehicles even though all have an engine, wheels, etc. Some are faster (processor), some have more passenger room (storage), some are bigger (iPad) and so on and all have needs for the specific driver/user. But you don't hear people going around saying..."All the Mini-van is is a bigger compact"

Quote:
If I were a Mac diehard, I would be really worried. But on the other hand, Apple doesn't seem to have the heart/balls to kill the Mac line so it will probably live on forever.
Computing is moving beyond the desktop and large machines for the majority of individuals. Most do not need a desktop. They NEVER did. They were given one because that is all that existed for them to do check emails, browse the web, and so on. It is why the iPhone (which is a mobile computer with phone capabilites) and the iPad are so popular. People realize that is what they need. They don't need a desktop or laptop. They never did. I have so many friends that dont even have a computer anymore. They just have their iPhone and/or iPad. These iOS devices ARE the future of computing. The desk is not.

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Originally Posted by autrefois View Post
Maybe it's because everything seems so routinely predictable now, there's not much surprise. The new iPhone will be released in x timeframe, The new iPad will be in Y timeframe. Heck, people were even able to guess (if you can call it that) when Mountain Lion would come out: the same as last year, the day after their quarterly earnings call.
You are absolutely right and I have said the same thing. Because of the internet and literally magnifying glass on Apple at all times now, nothing can really WOW or surprise anyone anymore. 4 years ago, this site was barely visited by most. Now it's the mainstay of Apple rumors and leaks. Every blogger and analyst out there focuses on Apple and their products.

Basically we are overloaded with Apple stuff and it's impossible to get away from it and you can't be surprised anymore.

It's sorta the same with video games and everything being leaked/secrets on the web.

Last edited by Ryth; Jul 25, 2012 at 12:51 AM.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 12:44 AM   #97
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I completely agree. But Apple's iPad was essentially an iPhone or iPod Touch x4....yes.

I really don't follow Google other than their online services like search and maps....but I really don't see Google doing very well in the physical world...they've always been about making money off ads and having free web services.



The iPhone and iPad are the same thing...and so is the Touch...sorry to tell you that. Physically different shapes and one has phone call abilities, but those are the only differences. There is so much hoopla about the MBA...yet I've never seen one in public. I'm not saying it's a bad machine, but nobody owns it. I wouldn't call the MBA revolutionary...it's a great machine packed in a tiny space...and? If it were selling for $300 that would be revolutionary...but if I remember correctly it debuted at like $1500 and Apple had to drop the price because nobody was buying it.

Apple is a company that, in the past 10+ years, has made it's success on coming up with grand new ideas. Those grand ideas, IMO, ended with the invention of the iPhone and essentially iOS. It's been the same iOS devices for 5+ years now...new iPhones, new Touches, new iPads, the Macs are trying to adopt it...etc. Again, all the eggs are in 1 basket.

Somebody posted a link where 75% of Apple's income is for the iPhone and iPad and iPod. That can be good and can be bad. Less than 15% of Apple's revenue comes from Macs. If I were a Mac diehard, I would be really worried. But on the other hand, Apple doesn't seem to have the heart/balls to kill the Mac line so it will probably live on forever....it would be like McDonalds no longer selling fries...the golden arches logo is just synonymous with fries just as Apple is synonymous with Macs.
You seem to be going off on a rant, but I don't really understand why. You talk of grand new ideas that they came up with, but then in almost the same breath you dismiss all the ideas as being the same. So essentially the only grand new ideas they came up with are the iPhone and iOS. What are these other grand new ideas you speak of? By your argument they've stagnated since the first iPhone they came out with because each version of iOS is the same. All the iPhones are the same. The iPad is the same as the iPhone. The iPod Touch is the same as well. Heck, by your argument, the iMac is the same as the Macbook. And all the Macbooks - standard, Pro, and Air - are the same. And yet, the revenue and profit growth would suggest that your assessment is incorrect.

And if you're so unhappy with their lack of innovation, why aren't you jumping to another platform that you feel innovates more? No one's forcing you to use Apple products. Don't just complain, vote with your wallet! That's the beauty of a consumer choice. I'd be interested to hear who you think does a better job with new (and useful) devices/software.

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Old Jul 25, 2012, 01:08 AM   #98
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Top grossing? In the top 50 companies, probably.
Yea, I should have said most valued.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 02:29 AM   #99
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I'm thinking Fall Transition is simply CFO speak for a new iPhone is coming, and people are waiting for it, which is a result of Apple-related rumor sites like MR. I have a vague memory of something similar being said a year ago, when the 4S didn't show up when people had assumed, based on the prior iPhone releases.

They also underplayed that they got hammered by the Ivy Bridge delay, and yield issues related to Mac-sized Retina displays (yield issues that I think are still underway). When they solve that problem, and if Haswell comes out on time, then they will have some nice Mac hardware, and people will buy them up.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 02:43 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by cgk.emu View Post
Well, there ya go folks who are freaking out waiting for new stuff
Go where and with what? He didn't say anything except for the typical empty "amazing new products are in the pipeline" phrase. That's about as informative as saying nothing at all.
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