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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:47 PM   #51
Oletros
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Originally Posted by Benjamins View Post
again shipped <> sold.

anyone can ship billions of something. Just ask all those companies that shipped Android tablets.

or ask Logitech about shipping millions of Google TV.
Denial mode?
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:50 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Benjamins View Post
again shipped <> sold.

anyone can ship billions of something. Just ask all those companies that shipped Android tablets.

or ask Logitech about shipping millions of Google TV.
Consumers must be buying these handsets or retailers wouldn't be buying them in increasing quantities from Samsung.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:52 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by WiiDSmoker View Post
You're talking about the iPhone 4 that can be had for free or 49.99 right? Stop this crap.
No, he's not talking about that. One US carrier isn't the whole picture. Samsung's revenue per phone is less than half of Apple's with the iPhone.

If you really do want to look at the results when Android devices aren't any cheaper than the iPhone, than look at AT&T. The iPhone dominates with 73% of smartphone activations.

The two main reasons for Android's smartphone market share lead are lower prices and wider distribution.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:52 PM   #54
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The truth is: Samsung IS GETTING a lot of coverage and positive reviews with its flagship SIII.

Every single Samsung smartphone is, of course, result of blatantly copying Apple. However, people don't care about any of this and just want the "best" phone - and right now, hardware-wise, the SIII does retain the edge, notwithstanding Apple's great ecosystem advantage.

Lawsuits will NOT block Samsung from flooding the market one way or another, even if litigation defeats happen in certain jurisdictions. Judges do not have the guts to block such a device in absolute terms; so the best answer from Apple is actually the only feasible one: INNOVATION.

Alas, SJ is gone and we only have a chief executor in place now - if the next iPhone 5 doesn't come with a mindblowing screen and haptic feedback (not to mention features that only SJ could think of), the monolith will fall - there is absolutely no doubt about it.

So memo to Apple: do NOT come with a ML-like upgrade for the next iPhone - it HAS to be a complete revolution, otherwise it's all over and back to the dreaded 90s again.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:53 PM   #55
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Wrong conclusions

Instead of using number of "smartphones" shipped as some conclusive indication that Apple and the iPhone are falling out of favor in the public eye, why not turn to research that addresses that directly. Last time I checked, Apple was a far more popular and satisfying brand. Of course this may have changed very recently, but I don't think this is the information we should be using to make that assessment.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:53 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by FactVsOpinion View Post
Yes, they are free... but only in the Unites States, and only on AT&T. Even in that case, there are only two or three models of the same phone, as opposed to dozens of different phones.

On top of that, it is obvious that the other 50 million phones that Samsung makes are, by definition, cheaper phones since they don't make as much profit as Apple.

Think twice.
Cricket & Virgin Mobile offer prepaid iPhones. Not just the USA either.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:53 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by tootall View Post
Apple's strategy of introducing new product updates may be adequate for computers (maybe?) but it is definitely too slow for (smart)phones
it's always been too slow for computers too. Hence why there used to be the perceived "apple tax".

Apple refreshing their hardware once a year, while the competition constantly updates. the first 3-4 months an apple computer is out, it's on par with competition for price. But as time goes on, the competition turns over new hardware and faster computers at that same price, Apples computers are still the exact same after those 7-9 months. The competition is that much faster.

Hence why people started with the "apple tax". why pay 999 for a 1.5ghz CPU computer when the competition has a 2.5ghz cpu out now for 999?

I am not suurprised by the news today about Samsung passing Apple.

Yes there are MANY reasons why that has happened. From multiple products instead of just one. From different price points, from free and cheap phones, to expensive high end ones.

What samsung is offering the consumer, and the consumers love them for is this magical word.
CHOICE.

Apple is not. Apple tells you exactly the device you have to have to use an apple phone. the oNE. the one OS, the ONE App store. THE one vendor, they even tried to tie you exclusively into one carrier when the iphone debuted.

This is what they did in the PC industry so long ago and it bit them in the but. Eventually when the competition catches up to you in product offerings and what they can do, people will tend to migrate to where they have more choice. In the 90's that was Windows and PC's. Apple almost went bankrupt because they refused to open their platform.

Can they avoid the same fate this time around in the phone industry? Will they make multiple real product offerings? (Iphone 4 and 4s aren't different offerings, its just a discounted "old" model).

Samsung is doing exactly what they've needed to grab top spot. And the consumers on the whole are happy and thankful for it.3

Add in that the 4(s) is a lame duck device. the 4 design is 2+ years old now. people like new and shiny. Instead apple hasn't turned out a new design so people are stopping buying the 4(s) and waiting for the 5. they're waiting to see if the 5 brings something big, something new, something that samsung has managed to bring.

So far though, i'm not impressed by the 5's mockups. an iphone4 with longer screen is not what people want.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:53 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
Every single Samsung smartphone is, of course, result of blatantly copying Apple.
Of course, and if reality doesn't agree, we will put it apart
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:53 PM   #59
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It's not prepaid, if there's a monthly bill...
And, those are all in Europe...
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:54 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by wickerman1893 View Post
172% is incredible but I don't know how. The SIII is nice but not as nice as the 4S or Lumia 900.
Not
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:55 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Denial mode?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_stuffing
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:55 PM   #62
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Hey MacRumors, you know this is, at the very least, speculation. There are no official numbers. Stop spreading rumors, heheh.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:55 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Spain, Italy, UK, France, Germany, etc, etc.
And that theme keeps coming up, only in Europe, that's not worldwide. There's no where in America that I'm aware of anyway, that you can buy a prepaid phone, and those in Europe don't even count, because they require a monthly bill.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:56 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Benjamins View Post
Yap, quarter after quarter, isn't?
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:57 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post
It's not prepaid, if there's a monthly bill...
And, those are all in Europe...
They are "prepaid" hence the "with £10 topup" - the £10 is the first bit of credit added to the phone. Once that is used you "top up" your "pre paid credit" as you wish.

These are worldwide numbers, why exclude Europe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post
...and those in Europe don't even count, because they require a monthly bill.
Assumption the name of the game? They simply don't require a monthly bill.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:57 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post
And that theme keeps coming up, only in Europe, that's not worldwide. There's no where in America that I'm aware of anyway, that you can buy a prepaid phone, and those in Europe don't even count, because they require a monthly bill.
You have said that there is no prepaid or free iPhones and there are. Only in Europe? I have talked about the countries I know, nothing more.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:58 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
Cricket & Virgin Mobile offer prepaid iPhones. Not just the USA either.
Thanks for that information. I'm interested to know at what cost they offer these phones. The ones in the States are not prepaid, they're just cheaper because they're older models.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:01 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by ChazUK View Post
Consumers must be buying these handsets or retailers wouldn't be buying them in increasing quantities from Samsung.
In some places they're giving them away for free, and not just in conjunction with a contract. Buy one get one free type deals; certainly loss leaders. That's what you have to do to flood the market.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:02 PM   #69
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Or maybe it's because Apple only sells one type of phone compared to plenty of Samsung smartphones. And people hesitated to buy the iPhone; they're waiting for the iPhone 5, which should definitely increase Apple's share.
This argument is trash. Having more products doesn't magically spawn new customers out of nowhere (if it did, what business sense does it make to limit it to 3 products like Apple does?). More likely, the Samsung customers are distributed among the different products (or perhaps the different Android customers are distributed among all the different Android products).
Sure, a certain portion of their customer base are probably based on the fact that there are many options but only an Apple fanboy could try to twist customer choice as something negative.
Also, it's funny how the anticipation for the next iPhone is suddenly a problem. Earlier years the sales went on like normal and it was explained with how the average customer didn't know that a new model was around the corner, but now the lower sales are blamed on the idea that everyone suddenly knows this. It changed that dramatically in only a year? Call me skeptical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post
Where?
Basically every country besides the US (as I understand it)
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:02 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Spain, Italy, UK, France, Germany, etc, etc.
Can't speak for the rest of the world, here in the UK, an iPhone 4S is only ever free on the highest tariff over a 24 month commitment.

Samsung and other Android phones are a lot cheaper in cost of ownership.

I still bet Apple revenues for mobile shipments outnumber Samsung's based on the same number etc.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:03 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by robogobo View Post
In some places they're giving them away for free, and not just in conjunction with a contract. Buy one get one free type deals; certainly loss leaders. That's what you have to do to flood the market.
Loss leader for the telco perhaps, not for the manufacturer. And loss leader only initially, the 2 years contract is not free
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:04 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by FactVsOpinion View Post
Thanks for that information. I'm interested to know at what cost they offer these phones. The ones in the States are not prepaid, they're just cheaper because they're older models.
Not true... both Virgin Mobile and Cricket Wireless in the US sell the iPhone 4S as a prepaid phone.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:05 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Lennholm View Post
This argument is trash. Having more products doesn't magically spawn new customers out of nowhere (if it did, what business sense does it make to limit it to 3 products like Apple does?). More likely, the Samsung customers are distributed among the different products (or perhaps the different Android customers are distributed among all the different Android products).
It's not a bad argument because the consumer's unit of selection (price, phone feature, availability) might not be the unit on which the analysis is based (manufacturer).
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:06 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by robogobo View Post
In some places they're giving them away for free, and not just in conjunction with a contract. Buy one get one free type deals; certainly loss leaders. That's what you have to do to flood the market.
Well that explains their increasing profits. Giving hardware away!

Genius.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:10 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
The truth is: Samsung IS GETTING a lot of coverage and positive reviews with its flagship SIII.

Every single Samsung smartphone is, of course, result of blatantly copying Apple. However, people don't care about any of this and just want the "best" phone - and right now, hardware-wise, the SIII does retain the edge, notwithstanding Apple's great ecosystem advantage.

Lawsuits will NOT block Samsung from flooding the market one way or another, even if litigation defeats happen in certain jurisdictions. Judges do not have the guts to block such a device in absolute terms; so the best answer from Apple is actually the only feasible one: INNOVATION.

Alas, SJ is gone and we only have a chief executor in place now - if the next iPhone 5 doesn't come with a mindblowing screen and haptic feedback (not to mention features that only SJ could think of), the monolith will fall - there is absolutely no doubt about it.

So memo to Apple: do NOT come with a ML-like upgrade for the next iPhone - it HAS to be a complete revolution, otherwise it's all over and back to the dreaded 90s again.
Well it's not that dire, but it isn't looking great anymore for Apple.

In addition to stale products, Apple marketing seems off its game of late.

If it were last year, a 4" screen would have been ok, but they sat on their backsides in order to make a more profitable world phone. (I still think the 4s was a fallback when LTE and a larger screen were too big of a power drain.)

Regardless, a big part of what drives sales is how cool something is. The 4s cost lots of teens and 20 somethings a huge proportion of their income, and they ended up with a phone with a small screen that EVERYONE has. They spent far more than they should have and don't even have something cool to show for it.

This is a major problem because these kids create the demand. Apple needs a game changer like the iPhone 4 was--something no one has seen before.

Doesn't look like Tim Cook understands....but we shall wait and see.
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