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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:10 PM   #76
FactVsOpinion
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Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
Not true... both Virgin Mobile and Cricket Wireless in the US sell the iPhone 4S as a prepaid phone.
It seems that you are right. However, if we keep on point, we see that prepaid phones do not offer a cheaper alternative. Virgin has the 4s for $650.00. If you trace back the conversation, you'll see that prepaid phones were brought up as a side note. The real issue was whether or not iPhones are as widely available around the world in countries and on network for free with contracts as are Samsung phones. They are not.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:10 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Carouser View Post
It's not a bad argument because the consumer's unit of selection (price, phone feature, availability) might not be the unit on which the analysis is based (manufacturer).
Consider this statement: "The number of customers is proportionate to the number of products". If you consider this statement true, why doesn't Apple make more products? Are they stupid?
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:11 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
So memo to Apple: do NOT come with a ML-like upgrade for the next iPhone - it HAS to be a complete revolution, otherwise it's all over and back to the dreaded 90s again.
<Tim Cook Memo To You> Why didn't you post this 12 months ago? It's too late to change anything now

I'm pretty sure no matter *what* Apple releases, some people will justify it as a "minor" upgrade that isn't enough.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:12 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by vito View Post
Can't speak for the rest of the world, here in the UK, an iPhone 4S is only ever free on the highest tariff over a 24 month commitment.

Samsung and other Android phones are a lot cheaper in cost of ownership.

I still bet Apple revenues for mobile shipments outnumber Samsung's based on the same number etc.
What £31 a month vs £28 for the s3 both free phones and 2years deals hardly the highest tariff and I doubt the £3 a month saving is pushing people to the s3 alone
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:12 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Macboy Pro View Post
Not a surprise, the iPhone looks antiquated compared to some of the newer droids like the HTC one X and the Samsung Galaxy SIII. If the iPhone 5 Rumors are true, its not going to be pretty as the iPhone will continue to slip


Wake up Apple!
I don't think you know what "antiquated" means.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:14 PM   #81
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Looks like even the average joe is starting to figure out Apple's phones are a little out dated
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:15 PM   #82
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Samsung still has wider availability, more pricing options worldwide, and a much wider smartphone portfolio. For instance, take Apple's marketshare and divide it by the number of smartphone models currently on the market from them and do the same for Samsung. That's why you see iPhone models as the top sellers even though Samsung beats them overall.

A free iphone on CDMA carriers and more pre-paid and regional carrier options will help Apple in the next iteration. Perhaps they'll finally add T-mobile too. I imagine they could move a million units or so a quarter if Sprint can move near 2 million.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:20 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Lennholm View Post
This argument is trash. Having more products doesn't magically spawn new customers out of nowhere (if it did, what business sense does it make to limit it to 3 products like Apple does?). More likely, the Samsung customers are distributed among the different products (or perhaps the different Android customers are distributed among all the different Android products).
Sure, a certain portion of their customer base are probably based on the fact that there are many options but only an Apple fanboy could try to twist customer choice as something negative.
Also, it's funny how the anticipation for the next iPhone is suddenly a problem. Earlier years the sales went on like normal and it was explained with how the average customer didn't know that a new model was around the corner, but now the lower sales are blamed on the idea that everyone suddenly knows this. It changed that dramatically in only a year? Call me skeptical.


Basically every country besides the US (as I understand it)


I'm afraid you are mistaken. It's not necessarily a larger number of products that allows for more customers, although it probably has an effect, but a range of products available at a wide range of prices. You can supply products to every demographic when your products span the full range of prices.

Yes you can buy an iPhone 3GS for free with a contract. But 1. it's not actually free on a contract, and 2. you cannot pick up low cost iPhones anywhere near as widely as you can with Samsung phones.

----------

Instead of using number of "smartphones" shipped as some conclusive indication that Apple and the iPhone are falling out of favor in the public eye, why not turn to research that addresses that directly. Last time I checked, Apple was a far more popular and satisfying brand. Of course this may have changed very recently, but I don't think this is the information we should be using to make that assessment.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:21 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by LordVic View Post
I am not suurprised by the news today about Samsung passing Apple.

What samsung is offering the consumer, and the consumers love them for is this magical word.
CHOICE.

Apple is not. Apple tells you exactly the device you have to have to use an apple phone. the oNE. the one OS, the ONE App store. THE one vendor, they even tried to tie you exclusively into one carrier when the iphone debuted.

This is what they did in the PC industry so long ago and it bit them in the but. Eventually when the competition catches up to you in product offerings and what they can do, people will tend to migrate to where they have more choice. In the 90's that was Windows and PC's. Apple almost went bankrupt because they refused to open their platform.
While they have more market share, but Apple has more profit share.

One stop shopping is what made the iPhone so popular. You could get everything you needed in the iPhone/itune ecosystem, something that was eventually copied by everyone else. While Samsung had choice, most consumers chose the iPhone.

Apple tried opening up their operating system to other platforms which ended up being a big mistake. As their competitors undersold them, something they wish not to repete.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:22 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by btcutter View Post
Apple needs just a few BIG things to overrun Samsung.

1. Sign up China Mobile (biggest mobile carrier in China).
2. Make two or three different size screens (4 and 4.5 inch)...Honestly that's one of the BIGGEST reason people move to other phones...
3. More prepaid market...

just do these three things (that's a lot)....they will recapture many of the customers that moved to Samsung or HTC.
Agreed. The screen is a big thing and the iPhone 5 mockups are losers if its true.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:24 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by the8thark View Post
Apple still has the lions share of the total smart phone profits. And that's all that matters.
Lol. Really?? Maybe to Apple execs, but not to the many iPhone users I know seriously considering switching to better Android phones.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:25 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by WiiDSmoker View Post
You're talking about the iPhone 4 that can be had for free or 49.99 right? Stop this crap.
You don't know what you're talking about, or you're in denial.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:25 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by FactVsOpinion View Post
I'm afraid you are mistaken. It's not necessarily a larger number of products that allows for more customers, although it probably has an effect, but a range of products available at a wide range of prices. You can supply products to every demographic when your products span the full range of prices.

Yes you can buy an iPhone 3GS for free with a contract. But 1. it's not actually free on a contract, and 2. you cannot pick up low cost iPhones anywhere near as widely as you can with Samsung phones.
No, I'm not mistaken. It's not black or white it's in the gray. More options of course bring more customers, but not proportionately to the number of products. And again, how is this a bad thing?
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:26 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Gigaman View Post
Besides comparing a phone released last year to something recent, I know you're not talking about specs, news flash: the world no longer revolves around specs. The combination of iOS and the iPhone have been able to pull off a very smooth experience while running something like Infinity Blade II with that same consistency. Wait- you've seen the design on the SIII, right?
I have seen the phone. You can talk about "specs" but 90% of people who buy phones are picking them up and feeling them, looking at the screen, etc.... Pickup the iPhone 4 or 4s and it SUCKs compared to the SIII or the One X. Been hoping for a redesign for the iPhone 5 but so far the rumors are not looking good.

Oh, and I was comparing it to the rumors about the unreleased iPhone 5 as well as the 4s
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:26 PM   #90
FactVsOpinion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btcutter View Post
Apple needs just a few BIG things to overrun Samsung.

1. Sign up China Mobile (biggest mobile carrier in China).
2. Make two or three different size screens (4 and 4.5 inch)...Honestly that's one of the BIGGEST reason people move to other phones...
3. More prepaid market...

just do these three things (that's a lot)....they will recapture many of the customers that moved to Samsung or HTC.
I think you make some good points.

But since Apple's share is growing, and their user base is growing, we should be careful when we talk about users "moving to Samsung".
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:26 PM   #91
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Apple will be a player for quite a long time to come, especially as many have fully integrated Apple products into their home entertainment solutions.

Also, Apple sells VERY well with customers 50+ in age. It's a nice safe option for older consumers who don't want to deal with anything complicated.

However, will Apple be the market leader? Not a chance.

Will their profits decline year after year? Most certainly.

Will their stock drop to half what it is now? Of course it will.

That said, Apple aint going anywhere... and one of those directions is up.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:28 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by isoft7 View Post
Will their profits decline year after year? Most certainly.

Will their stock drop to half what it is now? Of course it will.

I highly doubt that
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:28 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
While they have more market share, but Apple has more profit share.
.
Yeah cause I pick my phones based on how much margin the manufacturer makes its my only concern when buying a new phone
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:29 PM   #94
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No, I'm not mistaken. It's not black or white it's in the gray. More options of course bring more customers, but not proportionately to the number of products. And again, how is this a bad thing?

Who said anything was bad? I do not recall making any value judgements. I am simply helping you understand that having products available at every price point certainly does allow you access you a larger number of customers. You had trouble understanding how more products would allow this... so I'm helping you out. If I recall, you said something like, 'The argument is trash. Having more products doesn't magically spawn new customers out of nowhere.' No, it doesn't. But having varied pricing option DOES allow first time buyers a low cost entry into the smartphone space. Considering that the vast majority of the world are suffering financially, this really does make a very big difference.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:30 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
More like "Average consumers love huge screens".
LOL! Like the majority of it is big screen. My friend has Samsung phone and its screen is tiny. One even has Galaxy brand but really cheap. I'm beginning to think fandroids are delusional.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:33 PM   #96
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LOL! Like the majority of it is big screen. My friend has Samsung phone and its screen is tiny. One even has Galaxy brand but really cheap. I'm beginning to think fandroids are delusional.
What fandroids?
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:35 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by FactVsOpinion View Post
It seems that you are right. However, if we keep on point, we see that prepaid phones do not offer a cheaper alternative. Virgin has the 4s for $650.00. If you trace back the conversation, you'll see that prepaid phones were brought up as a side note. The real issue was whether or not iPhones are as widely available around the world in countries and on network for free with contracts as are Samsung phones. They are not.
You are probably not going to see top of the line phones ( iPhone 4S, Samsung Galaxey II, III ect. ) being offered for free. More then likely its going to be the lower cost ones. Considering Apple does not really offer cheap phones, unless its an older model with lower specs. Althoug I'm not aware of all the different service carriers and what they may offer.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:38 PM   #98
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You are probably not going to see top of the line phones ( iPhone 4S, Samsung Galaxey II, III ect. ) being offered for free. More then likely its going to be the lower cost ones. Considering Apple does not really offer cheap phones, unless its an older model with lower specs. Althoug I'm not aware of all the different service carriers and what they may offer.
That's exactly right. And I'd venture to say that Samsung's lead in number shipped comes from the products that ARE offered cheaply, and not from the "top of the line phones".

In other words, if we removed all of the cheaper Samsung phones from the equation and kept only their top phones, they would likely be selling no more than Apple, perhaps fewer.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:39 PM   #99
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Consider this statement: "The number of customers is proportionate to the number of products". If you consider this statement true, why doesn't Apple make more products? Are they stupid?
The statement is roughly true by definition but you can't increase the number of buyers by having a greater variety of products unless those products target different markets, in which case lumping them back together as though one is analysing one market is a mistake. It's like saying the grocery store sold more product than the baker - it relies on pretty obvious equivocation. The unit 'smartphone' is about as useful as the unit 'electronic device' or 'consumer good' for this analysis, which is to say, not very useful at all, because it occludes too much.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:39 PM   #100
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Have to say I'm glad to see this. As much as I like my Apple products I also love competition because it's the fuel for innovation.
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