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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:41 PM   #101
kdarling
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It's not just one or two things. It's a combination of everything that's been brought up:
  • Samsung has a larger choice of phone models to fill more niches. (Heck, they sold over 5 million Notes. A little of this, a little of that... pretty soon you're talking big numbers in total.)
  • Samsung has lower priced no-contract phones. (The ~$125 Galaxy Mini is often 50% of smartphone sales in economically hit countries.)
  • Smartphone users get more sophisticated over time and want more control / features / different UI.
  • Many smartphone users like larger screens than Apple offers.
  • Apple upgraders are waiting for the single yearly new model.
  • The iPhone's design hasn't been changed in a couple of years.
  • A few carriers have dropped the iPhone due to its extra large subsidy.
  • Samsung benefits a bit from free publicity via so many Apple lawsuits.
  • Samsung has 4G LTE support.

Last edited by kdarling; Jul 28, 2012 at 06:35 AM. Reason: Added LTE.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:42 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Ubuntu View Post
Have to say I'm glad to see this. As much as I like my Apple products I also love competition because it's the fuel for innovation.
Then how was there an iPod or an iPad to begin with? Seems like pretty significant innovation when the competition was an utter joke.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:42 PM   #103
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i like my iPhone but saying Samsung is in lead just because its selling "crap" phones doesnt make any sense. not everyone needs a $650 phone.
You contradicted yourselves there.

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Originally Posted by bushido View Post
the price is not all u know ...

and the iPhone 4S isnt even that expensive, u can get it for 1 euro here
You contradicted yourselves again with 1 Euro and $650 phone.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:46 PM   #104
linuxcooldude
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I am simply helping you understand that having products available at every price point certainly does allow you access you a larger number of customers.
I think that would help only up to a certain point. Too many models at different price points, they might actually compete within their own models. One reason Apple got rid of the white MacBook, MacBook Airs base models were too close in price with better hardware.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:51 PM   #105
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Hate to burst your bubble but if Apple doesn't drastically update the next iPhone I would likely move to Android. Samsung has some nice looking products that I would not mind owning.
Good for you and we don't care.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:52 PM   #106
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the iPhone looks antiquated compared to some of the newer droids like the HTC one X and the Samsung Galaxy SIII.
You're kidding me right?
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:52 PM   #107
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I highly doubt that
Wait and see.

Last year at this time Apple shares were almost half the price they're trading for today. It's a bubble, there is no reason for this company to be valued $600 BILLION dollars. It's ridiculous.

Yes, the new iPhone will do "well", it's an Apple product, it will sell. But it will not sell as well as the iPhone 4s did.

Thus, we will see a correction based on market interpretation of a company considered once impervious to anything but absolute consumer success.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:52 PM   #108
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So in the quarter that Samsung drops an extremely hyped new device and Apple sales slow to a halt in anticipation of the inevitable new iPhone in Sept/Oct, Samsung outsells Apple? Wow. What great information.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:57 PM   #109
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Let me know when Samsung equal Apple in profits.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:59 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by FactVsOpinion View Post
Who said anything was bad? I do not recall making any value judgements. I am simply helping you understand that having products available at every price point certainly does allow you access you a larger number of customers. You had trouble understanding how more products would allow this... so I'm helping you out. If I recall, you said something like, 'The argument is trash. Having more products doesn't magically spawn new customers out of nowhere.' No, it doesn't. But having varied pricing option DOES allow first time buyers a low cost entry into the smartphone space. Considering that the vast majority of the world are suffering financially, this really does make a very big difference.
Maybe not you, but comments like (paraphrasing) "Unimpressive, no wonder they sell so much when they flood the market with cheap crap" from elitist Apple fanboys in an attempt to spin it as something unfavorable for Samsung is common here and the reason I make this argument. It makes as much sense as saying "No wonder Apple sells so many iPhones when they flood their ecosystem with crappy music, B-movies and worthless apps".
As I said, I perfectly understand that more products in different categories means more customers, to a certain point. It's not as simple as "the more products; the more customers" like many people here suggest and it's not necessarily something that should put the manufacturer in a bad light like the same people claim.

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Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
I think that would help only up to a certain point. Too many models at different price points, they might actually compete within their own models. One reason Apple got rid of the white MacBook, MacBook Airs base models were too close in price with better hardware.
Exactly
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:00 PM   #111
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The Galaxy SIII is WAY WAY WAY better hardware than the 4s. WAY better. The problem with the Galaxy is the OS. IOS is way better than droid. Its pretty much a hardware vs software battle in my opinion.
and JellyBean is superior to iOS so that's even a darker future for apple and good for all of us
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:00 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by chrisbru View Post
So in the quarter that Samsung drops an extremely hyped new device and Apple sales slow to a halt in anticipation of the inevitable new iPhone in Sept/Oct, Samsung outsells Apple? Wow. What great information.
I'm not sure when Samsung's Q2 ends, but I'm fairly certain the GSIII wasn't on sale yet in almost all regions save Korea, and I'm completely confident that holds for the US since it didn't launch before June anywhere in the US.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:02 PM   #113
kdarling
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Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
I think that would help only up to a certain point. Too many models at different price points, they might actually compete within their own models. One reason Apple got rid of the white MacBook, MacBook Airs base models were too close in price with better hardware.
Over the past few years, Apple has expanded the number of iPhone models available for sale at once, in order to hit different price levels.

So Apple already has their own models that compete with each other at times.

One question I have is, how much longer is Apple willing to go through this yearly downturn cycle, before they decide it makes sense to put out a new model more often and thus maintain a more constant sales flow? Or do you all think that will never change?

(People crack jokes about new Android models constantly coming out, but that does means an Android buyer has a very recent set of choices... versus the iPhone buyer who is often advised to wait months longer for a new model rather than to buy a now-over-a-half year old one.)
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:12 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by kdarling View Post
Over the past few years, Apple has expanded the number of iPhone models available for sale at once, in order to hit different price levels.

So Apple already has their own models that compete with each other at times.

One question I have is, how much longer is Apple willing to go through this yearly downturn cycle, before they decide it makes sense to put out a new model more often and thus maintain a more constant sales flow? Or do you all think that will never change?

(People crack jokes about new Android models constantly coming out, but that does means an Android buyer has a very recent set of choices... versus the iPhone buyer who is often advised to wait months longer for a new model rather than to buy a now-over-a-half year old one.)
An android buyer may have a more recent set of choices, but the top phone makers have subscribed to apple's yearly update cycle concept. Galaxy S3, HTC One X and such phones are manifestations of that once a year flagship phone type cycle. It's just that you have many more players in the android game.

However, if this mini-iPad becomes a reality, I think apple will have to recognize that consumers do want different size screens and that approach has value too. If developers are willing to commit to a variety of screen sizes and devices on a less lucrative app store, they'll commit to 2 screen sizes on the most successful app store.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:13 PM   #115
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While they have more market share, but Apple has more profit share.
Derped wallet
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:20 PM   #116
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What the article misses completely is that the "smartphone" market is changing. There used to be a market for cheap phones, and a market for expensive and high end smartphones. But much cheaper phones are now smart phones, and the growth in smart phones comes from cheaper and cheaper phones fitting into the "smart phones" category. If a company sold a $100 feature phone last year, and now they sell a $100 smart phone, then their share in the "smartphone" portion of the market grows, but they don't have any economic advantage from it.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:21 PM   #117
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Brilliant news, Samsung choose to fight in the market while apple try and fight in the courts because they know their phone is inferior to top Android devices.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:27 PM   #118
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Samsung and Google are essentially the Walmart of the technology world.

They rush to get in on a market by over saturating it with cheap, less than stellar phones which they sell at a loss just to over-inflate their numbers much like Walmart forced their way into small markets by forcing existing businesses out by selling cheap merchandise.

The tech world will be much better once they're gone.

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and JellyBean is superior to iOS so that's even a darker future for apple and good for all of us
Perhaps in your dreams Android is better than iOS but in the real world it's the opposite. Android is ugly and has no sense of direction - it feels like a two year old just knocked over a bucket of paint and Google called it a day.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:29 PM   #119
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which they sell at a loss
Wrong, but coming from you, it os not a surprise. You just have to look at profit numbers.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:30 PM   #120
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pretty bloody good, 1 phone versus the squillions of samsungs released.

Most of samsungs offerings don't really meet up to a real smartphone standard in terms of what a user expects.

Samsung ship phones with little to no profits, I wouldn't be surprised if samsung was actually in financial trouble long term considering massive growth.

Samsung don't innovate and I can't see any reason to support any company that doesn't have creativity in it's DNA.

Also a massive reason for samsung sales is the cost to the end user is so cheap they will always out sell a more expensive product for those who only care about price, and quite frankly they deserve to have a crappy samsung phone.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:30 PM   #121
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Are you saying that Samsung is lying in their Mobile division numbers?
I'm saying that Samsung is not reporting those numbers. NPD is estimating shipments based on checking sources and trying their best to fill in the gaps. Go re-read the article and you will see that in no place does it say that Samsung is reporting these numbers. Samsung refuses to report their mobile phone and smartphone shipments.

Quote:
Research firm IDC yesterday released its estimates of global mobile phone and smartphone shipments for the second quarter of 2012, revealing that Apple's slower year-over-year iPhone growth and booming sales from Samsung have caused the company's share of the market to slip compared to previous periods.
Quote:
While Samsung has ceased releasing data on smartphone sales for competitive reasons, IDC's estimates peg the company at having shipped 50.2 million smartphones during the quarter, up 172.8% year-over-year and allowing Samsung to easily take the crown in a booming market that topped 150 million shipments during the quarter.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:31 PM   #122
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Good to see Nokia back up.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:32 PM   #123
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Samsung ship phones with little to no profits, I wouldn't be surprised if samsung was actually in financial trouble long term considering massive growth.
Really?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC2009 View Post
I'm saying that Samsung is not reporting those numbers. NPD is estimating shipments based on checking sources and trying their best to fill in the gaps. Go re-read the article and you will see that in no place does it say that Samsung is reporting these numbers. Samsung refuses to report their mobile phone and smartphone shipments.
Samsung reports revenues and profits and their year over year and quarter over quarter grow is impressive.

I repeat, do you think that Samsung lies in their numbers?
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:34 PM   #124
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Sure hope Apple releases a new redesigned iPhone in two screen sizes. Whether they will or not who knows but I'd bet a there's lot of people in Apple's HQ strongly suggesting they do.

It's one of the wisest moves they could make but I still don't think we'll see it this year.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:37 PM   #125
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Really?

----------



Samsung reports revenues and profits and their year over year and quarter over quarter grow is impressive.

I repeat, do you think that Samsung lies in their numbers?
Reporting financial amounts is not the same as reporting unit sales. If Samsung was really selling that many smartphones they would be yelling it from the roof tops. I think Samsung's financial results are 100% accurate (as far as accounting goes).

Quote:
While Samsung has ceased releasing data on smartphone sales for competitive reasons, IDC's estimates peg the company at having shipped 50.2 million smartphones during the quarter, up 172.8% year-over-year and allowing Samsung to easily take the crown in a booming market that topped 150 million shipments during the quarter.
Similarly, Apple does not tell us how many iPod Shuffles they sell in a quarter -- only that "about half" of all iPods sold are "iPod Touch".
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