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Old Jul 28, 2012, 08:13 PM   #1
Andre29
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Awful Ram usage on Mountain Lion... new Macbook Air 2012

I have a new Macbook Air 2012 with 4GB ram, on Lion I had 2.02 GB free with 200mb+ inactive ram, with every single program I use open.

Now, I have 660mb ram free and 535mb inactive, and I don't think I even have all the programs I use open yet.

Absolutely abysmal. Seems like Apple's been reading this forum and looking at the mindless suggestions of 8GB.
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 11:15 PM   #2
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Not so awful at all. Even with 20 apps running at the same time, including 2 video playbacks in safari, a third one in quicktime and a fourth one in vlc, plus itunes playing in the background while editing stuff on iphoto with a partially edited movie in imovies and an ongoing skype conversation using the webcam, not to mention other third party apps that rip my cd and unpack rar packages, etc., there are still 100+mb of free ram on my 4gb/2.5ghz mbp 13''.

In any case, OS Mountain Lion is smart enough to allocate memory efficiently that it runs comfortably on the 4bg of ram that comes by default nowadays.
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 11:31 PM   #3
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I don't know what you are seeing there. I also have a new 2012 MacBook Air with 4GB RAM. I haven't rebooted since installing ML. I just opened every app in my dock (all iWork, iLife, Plex, etc) and my activity monitor shows 1.33GB memory free.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 12:13 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre29 View Post
I have a new Macbook Air 2012 with 4GB ram, on Lion I had 2.02 GB free with 200mb+ inactive ram, with every single program I use open.

Now, I have 660mb ram free and 535mb inactive, and I don't think I even have all the programs I use open yet.

Absolutely abysmal. Seems like Apple's been reading this forum and looking at the mindless suggestions of 8GB.
Apple must have changed the termination algorithm somehow.

My rMBP ~4500MB used with nothing but Safari and Mail open.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 12:26 AM   #5
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"Free RAM is wasted RAM"
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 01:06 AM   #6
Andre29
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Hmm, so what could it be? My computer was finished indexing yesterday, and I don't have heat problems or anything (so no dock running up usage).

Should I try a fresh install?

Mail, safari, finder, nimbuzz, steam, skype, and activity monitor open, not even imessage anymore, and still have 500-600mb free, 511mb inactive.

I'm not sure what is going on here, but not impressed.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 01:15 AM   #7
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Are you having performance issues? What, exactly, is not impressing you?
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 01:19 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Andre29 View Post
Hmm, so what could it be? My computer was finished indexing yesterday, and I don't have heat problems or anything (so no dock running up usage).

Should I try a fresh install?

Mail, safari, finder, nimbuzz, steam, skype, and activity monitor open, not even imessage anymore, and still have 500-600mb free, 511mb inactive.

I'm not sure what is going on here, but not impressed.
These seem to be just numbers to you and if one is bigger or smaller then that means something bad or good.

Rather than assuming you know what you're talking about with the RAM usage here, why not tell us what the real 'problem' is?
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 01:30 AM   #9
Michael CM1
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I have an iMac that used to have 4GB of RAM. It was a little slow when I got a few apps open, plus numerous tabs in Safari. I triped the RAM to 12GB. Now I constantly use about 6GB; right now I'm using almost 10GB without really even noticing.

The point is 4GB of RAM isn't that much anymore if you do a lot of things at the same time. For people like my mom and dad who mainly open a few browser tabs and email, no big deal. But if you have Spotify, iTunes, iMovie, Pages and 10 browser tabs open, you're going to need more. I know this doesn't help the user of a MBA, but it's just something to be aware of when buying computers. 4GB is the bare minimum I would get.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 01:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Yohe View Post
These seem to be just numbers to you and if one is bigger or smaller then that means something bad or good.

Rather than assuming you know what you're talking about with the RAM usage here, why not tell us what the real 'problem' is?
What?! Why are you like even questioning the OP? He obviously encountered a problem here. Have some compassion for your fellow New ML users. Geeesh.

ML cashed my system of 16 g of ram it was using 15.9g of ram. See my unanswered post here:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1413572


I hated lion. I thought ml might be better but boy was I wrong. I might now be super computer geeky but I am not a noob by no means. Windows 7 got it right. ML just eye candy and it's not even as impressive as the in Linux- Ubuntu. It makes me sad that Mac is no longer catering to the hardcore pro users. So many little issues. Sigh*

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael CM1 View Post
I have an iMac that used to have 4GB of RAM. It was a little slow when I got a few apps open, plus numerous tabs in Safari. I triped the RAM to 12GB. Now I constantly use about 6GB; right now I'm using almost 10GB without really even noticing.

The point is 4GB of RAM isn't that much anymore if you do a lot of things at the same time. For people like my mom and dad who mainly open a few browser tabs and email, no big deal. But if you have Spotify, iTunes, iMovie, Pages and 10 browser tabs open, you're going to need more. I know this doesn't help the user of a MBA, but it's just something to be aware of when buying computers. 4GB is the bare minimum I would get.

No no. Yes 4 is limited especially if a company solders the ram to the MOBO. and makes upgrading ram really really expensive than it has to be*apple* Yes they sound like a profit sucking company if they ML less efficient and push ppl to use their ram upgrade system. Eeeek!

But windows 7 is really efficient it doesn't utilize that much ram. I think it can run on 2 g of ram. Pretty sure but don't quote me.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 01:47 AM   #11
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I used an old white MacBook at work that had 2GB of RAM. It was only running Leopard, but it worked OK with basic stuff. But open Photoshop and a few tabs and EEK.

I agree the lack of upgradability on the MBA stinks, but that's how everything is in such a small space. Apple actually does a nice job on the iMacs of making RAM upgradable. My process was super easy. Hard drives are another matter because of some special equipment or something I read about. I would love to drop a 2TB drive in here, but considering the plethora of external space I'm just going to keep doing that instead.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 01:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concernedone View Post
What?! Why are you like even questioning the OP? He obviously encountered a problem here. Have some compassion for your fellow New ML users. Geeesh.
Why? Because he's assuming he knows what "awful RAM usage is" by some numbers being higher or lower than when in Lion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by concernedone View Post
ML cashed my system of 16 g of ram it was using 15.9g of ram. See my unanswered post here:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1413572
From your post:
"I have 16 G of ram. it was using UP all the ram (15.9!) what's going on?!"

See, you too think that using up all the RAM like that is a problem. It's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by concernedone View Post
ML just eye candy and it's not even as impressive as the in Linux- Ubuntu. It makes me sad that Mac is no longer catering to the hardcore pro users. So many little issues. Sigh*
You don't sound like a hardcore pro user.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 02:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre29 View Post
I have a new Macbook Air 2012 with 4GB ram, on Lion I had 2.02 GB free with 200mb+ inactive ram, with every single program I use open.

Now, I have 660mb ram free and 535mb inactive, and I don't think I even have all the programs I use open yet.

Absolutely abysmal. Seems like Apple's been reading this forum and looking at the mindless suggestions of 8GB.
I don't think you understand how memory management works. As someone else here said, free RAM is wasted RAM.

As long as RAM is properly released when more is required so it's not paging to disk constantly, it's best to keep as much information in RAM as possible—in your example, having 535mb of inactive memory compared to only 200mb on Lion.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 05:52 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Maniac Magee View Post
Not so awful at all. Even with 20 apps running at the same time, including 2 video playbacks in safari, a third one in quicktime and a fourth one in vlc, plus itunes playing in the background while editing stuff on iphoto with a partially edited movie in imovies and an ongoing skype conversation using the webcam, not to mention other third party apps that rip my cd and unpack rar packages, etc., there are still 100+mb of free ram on my 4gb/2.5ghz mbp 13''.

In any case, OS Mountain Lion is smart enough to allocate memory efficiently that it runs comfortably on the 4bg of ram that comes by default nowadays.
Agree.
ML seems a lot smarter than previous OSes in memory management.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 06:08 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Beta Particle View Post
I don't think you understand how memory management works. As someone else here said, free RAM is wasted RAM.

As long as RAM is properly released when more is required so it's not paging to disk constantly, it's best to keep as much information in RAM as possible—in your example, having 535mb of inactive memory compared to only 200mb on Lion.
I don't think you understand much about memory management, then. The users above are reporting almost 95% RAM usage with none or only a few apps open, so there is obviously a problem there.

Moreover, the point you mention is EXACTLY the problem they report: that once all RAM is "used" the computer HAS to resort to disk page outs - there is nothing "in between" - "as long as RAM is properly released so it's not paging to disk constantly" is nonsense, because this is what is NOT happening in their cases.

If THEIR activity monitor shows most of the RAM as wired or active with only the OS open, there definitely is an issue and perhaps a clean install should be tried.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 11:50 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
I don't think you understand much about memory management, then. The users above are reporting almost 95% RAM usage with none or only a few apps open, so there is obviously a problem there.

Moreover, the point you mention is EXACTLY the problem they report: that once all RAM is "used" the computer HAS to resort to disk page outs - there is nothing "in between" - "as long as RAM is properly released so it's not paging to disk constantly" is nonsense, because this is what is NOT happening in their cases.

If THEIR activity monitor shows most of the RAM as wired or active with only the OS open, there definitely is an issue and perhaps a clean install should be tried.
Where'd you get that from? His actual quote is

"Now, I have 660mb ram free and 535mb inactive, and I don't think I even have all the programs I use open yet."

We don't know if that's a few apps, a handful or several. At this point it's hard to ascertain whether this issue is based on his install or just the new memory management in Mountain Lion. Even in a system with lots of RAM you will still get Page Outs though they shouldn't be excessive.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 02:20 PM   #17
AzN1337c0d3r
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
that once all RAM is "used" the computer HAS to resort to disk page outs
Actually, no. RAM that is merely used as cache can be safely discarded without having to page-out to disk.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 03:19 PM   #18
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Even in a system with lots of RAM you will still get Page Outs though they shouldn't be excessive.
I am sorry, but NO; it should be much less than "not excessive". My system has 16GB RAM and right now activity monitor reports a ridiculously low/virtually zero 1.4MB of page outs.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 03:54 PM   #19
nuckinfutz
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http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1342

Clears up any confusion about

Wired RAM
Inactive
Free

etc
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 04:15 PM   #20
concernedone
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
I don't think you understand much about memory management, then. The users above are reporting almost 95% RAM usage with none or only a few apps open, so there is obviously a problem there.

Moreover, the point you mention is EXACTLY the problem they report: that once all RAM is "used" the computer HAS to resort to disk page outs - there is nothing "in between" - "as long as RAM is properly released so it's not paging to disk constantly" is nonsense, because this is what is NOT happening in their cases.

If THEIR activity monitor shows most of the RAM as wired or active with only the OS open, there definitely is an issue and perhaps a clean install should be tried.
Yes that is the case. I didn't even have any resource intensive app running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Yohe View Post
Why? Because he's assuming he knows what "awful RAM usage is" by some numbers being higher or lower than when in Lion.

From your post:
"I have 16 G of ram. it was using UP all the ram (15.9!) what's going on?!"

See, you too think that using up all the RAM like that is a problem. It's not.

You don't sound like a hardcore pro user.
And you don't sound compassionate at all. We're here to be helpful to other new ML fellows here obviously.
Not to like belittle them.

yes, it is an issue if I don't have many resource (ram) intensive app open and my system is sluggish as a snail as it crashes to oblivion.

seriously how can you judge weather someone is hardcore pro user at all? what's your criteria? and how did you acquire this talent to judge if he/she is a hardcore user by a single MR post. seriously just don't judge. please


Quote:
Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
I am sorry, but NO; it should be much less than "not excessive". My system has 16GB RAM and right now activity monitor reports a ridiculously low/virtually zero 1.4MB of page outs.
that's what I have. and same on my activity monitor as well.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 04:27 PM   #21
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that's what I have. and same on my activity monitor as well.
You mean you have a LOT of page outs (bad sign of excessive RAM usage) or what?
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 04:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
You mean you have a LOT of page outs (bad sign of excessive RAM usage) or what?
Here:


I normally would do a screen shot (cmd+shift+4) but the system was so sluggish that I had to take the pic with my phone.
It was impossible to move between apps. the scrolling was very slow and sluggish. so I had to do a hard restart.

I'm thinking of doing a clean install. I wanted to try out just updating via the app store but I think it calls for a clean install. What you think?
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 04:55 PM   #23
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Here:
Image

I normally would do a screen shot (cmd+shift+4) but the system was so sluggish that I had to take the pic with my phone.
It was impossible to move between apps. the scrolling was very slow and sluggish. so I had to do a hard restart.

I'm thinking of doing a clean install. I wanted to try out just updating via the app store but I think it calls for a clean install. What you think?
Well, this is absolutely AWFUL RAM usage. No wonder your system is so slow with so many page outs.

It seems like the main problems are coming from Imagent process, whose memory leak problems have also been reported for Lion...this is normally linked to FaceTime OR iMessage (which has had a NASTY memory eating bug for quite some time now) - check possible solutions below:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1305894

https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0

Or just stop using iMessages for now, this should help as well.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 05:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by concernedone View Post
seriously how can you judge weather someone is hardcore pro user at all? what's your criteria? and how did you acquire this talent to judge if he/she is a hardcore user by a single MR post. seriously just don't judge. please
Look, you're advising people here on how RAM is supposed to be used, but based on what you've been saying, you clearly haven't shown you understand how this works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by concernedone View Post
Here:
I normally would do a screen shot (cmd+shift+4) but the system was so sluggish that I had to take the pic with my phone.
It was impossible to move between apps. the scrolling was very slow and sluggish. so I had to do a hard restart.

I'm thinking of doing a clean install. I wanted to try out just updating via the app store but I think it calls for a clean install. What you think?
Ha, wow so your problem seems to be just IMAgent (Messages) is for whatever reason going nuts and using up 10GB of RAM. That's your only issue. Just reboot and watch if IMAgent takes off again. If so, then Apple has a bug to fix. (Note, my IMAgent is sitting at 17MB here on an 8GB machine)
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 05:03 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
Well, this is absolutely AWFUL RAM usage. No wonder your system is so slow with so many page outs.

It seems like the main problems are coming from Imagent process, whose memory leak problems have also been reported for Lion...this is normally linked to FaceTime OR iMessage (which has had a NASTY memory eating bug for quite some time now) - check possible solutions below:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1305894

Or just stop using iMessages for now, this should help as well.
yea.. I read that when I googled imagent process. lol. I think I was reading something about it from a dev who previewed a GM of ML about a bad memory leak. I was just so done with Lion so I jumped on ML so fast eventho I should've known better not to jump on it until all bugs are reproted/fixed. it was disappointing to learn that this release have so many problems first hand. >.< normally I would tell my friends like never update (esp for Apple) too early but I guess I need to take my own advice. so yea...
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