Resolved rMBP, Bootcamp off thunderbolt drive - MORE COMPLETE SOLUTION

Mikewh · Jul 30, 2012

In summary, Thanks to murphychris, here is what I have so far,

To be able to install and run Windows 7 off of a Thunderbolt solution (Seagate/buffalo/etc), a FAT partition needs to be created on the internal SSD.
Per murphychris, for the rMBP the internal partition is needed by mac to create hybrid MBR and sets up the internal drive to take the bootloader from the windows installer.

The first solution is to use boocamp assistant utility wants to create a 20GB partition. I used a different method to create a much smaller partition (mine was 5gb but likely can be as small as 1 GB).

1. run diskutil command:

Code:

diskutil list

you will need to know if your internal SSD is disk0 or disk1 (in this guide it was disk0

2. Create the small partition:
***my ssd is a 512 GB drive, you can break down the partition here ***

Code:

diskutil resizevolume /dev/disk0s2 494G MS-DOS FAT 5G

3. Within Mac, create a single msdos partition on the external thunderbolt drive. (GUID or MBR)

4. for the rMBP, use the Bootcamp assistant utility to create your USB windows 7 installer from an iso and also with the bootcamp drivers.

5. Reboot and press the option key at the chime.

6. Choose the windows installer

7. at the drive screen of the installer you will see your 2 drives. drive0 maybe the external. Format the external drive ntfs and then install to the drive.

8. On reboot and eventually install bootcamp drivers.

Trial and error:
I tried install without internal partition and received 0x8030024 error which in some of apple forums can be overcome by removing the main drive. I did this but installer would freeze.

Good luck. If you need any help let me know.

I've researched heavily and can not seem to get bootcamp to boot natively from thunderbolt drive. (Seagate adaptor with ssd)

I've made a Normal bootcamp install on my internal ssd.

booted into bootcamp and used Norton Ghost to clone to the thunderbolt SSD

When booting all I get is the black screen with cursor bleaking.

Any insight would be appreciated. I think it may be a BCD problem and currently am trying to rebuild the BCD on the thunderbolt but have not had success.

Any insights would be helpful.

My set up

rMBP 2.7, 512GB SSD

Thunderbolt adapter Seagate

Crucial SSD

Mikewh · Aug 1, 2012

Still no success

Here's what I've done.

1. Created Bootcamp partition on internal ssd with utility and installed windows
2. After install of bootcamp drivers rebooted
3. Plugged in thunderbolt cable with Seagate adapter and 480gb SSD and booted into "native" bootcamp
4. Deleted all partitions of 480gb SSD and made unallocated
5. Rebooted
6. Used Norton Ghost version 15 to copy bootcamp partition to 480gb ssd with transfer of MBR and unassigned drive letter.
7. After successful transfer, stopped and removed thunderbolt drive
8. Rebooted in to mac and removed bootcamp partition with utility
9. Rebooted and tried to load bootcamp from thunderbolt and came to black screen with cursor.

I've done everything from the different forum but still no success. I think possibly the rMBP may not allow the booting of bootcamp via thunderbolt or there may be a driver issue.

any guidance or thoughts.

murphychris · Aug 2, 2012

Question, you have two SSDs? It's entirely possible that you have two BIOS bootloaders in the two MBRs. What does this command return:

Code:

diskutil list

After pasting to the forum window, highlight the text, click the # button in the toolbar to format it with code tags.

Mikewh · Aug 2, 2012

murphychris said:
Question, you have two SSDs? It's entirely possible that you have two BIOS bootloaders in the two MBRs. What does this command return:

Code:

diskutil list

After pasting to the forum window, highlight the text, click the # button in the toolbar to format it with code tags.

It looks like only 1 MBR on external thunderbolt drive

Here's diskutil list result
/dev/disk0
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: GUID_partition_scheme *500.3 GB disk0
1: EFI 209.7 MB disk0s1
2: Apple_HFS Macintosh HD 499.4 GB disk0s2
3: Apple_Boot Recovery HD 650.0 MB disk0s3
/dev/disk1
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: FDisk_partition_scheme *480.1 GB disk1
1: Windows_NTFS BOOTCAMP 480.1 GB disk1s1

Any more thoughts are appreciated.

MW

murphychris · Aug 2, 2012

Inconclusive. disk1 definitely has only MBR. Question is if both, or one, have bootloaders still. However, you need to read the part where I asked for formatting with code tags. If you don't do this it's harder to read the results in the forum. Highlight the pasted text, click on the # button in the toolbar to add code tags next time.

So do these two things and report the results in code tags for the whole sequence. You should copy-paste these to Terminal to make sure you don't get it wrong. First two lines copy disk0 and disk1 sector 0 (the MBR) to each their own file, saved in the user folder. Second two lines output the hex of those files to screen.

Code:

sudo dd if=/dev/disk0 of=~/mbr0.bin bs=512 count=1
sudo dd if=/dev/disk1 of=~/mbr1.bin bs=512 count=1
hexdump -C ~/mbr0.bin
hexdump -C ~/mbr1.bin

Mikewh · Aug 3, 2012

murphychris said:
Inconclusive. disk1 definitely has only MBR. Question is if both, or one, have bootloaders still. However, you need to read the part where I asked for formatting with code tags. If you don't do this it's harder to read the results in the forum. Highlight the pasted text, click on the # button in the toolbar to add code tags next time.

So do these two things and report the results in code tags for the whole sequence. You should copy-paste these to Terminal to make sure you don't get it wrong. First two lines copy disk0 and disk1 sector 0 (the MBR) to each their own file, saved in the user folder. Second two lines output the hex of those files to screen.

Code:

sudo dd if=/dev/disk0 of=~/mbr0.bin bs=512 count=1 sudo dd if=/dev/disk1 of=~/mbr1.bin bs=512 count=1 hexdump -C ~/mbr0.bin hexdump -C ~/mbr1.bin

Code:

Michaels-MacBook-Pro:~ michaelwheaton$ sudo dd if=/dev/disk0 of=~/mbr0.bin bs=512 count=1
1+0 records in
1+0 records out
512 bytes transferred in 0.000311 secs (1646843 bytes/sec)
Michaels-MacBook-Pro:~ michaelwheaton$ sudo dd if=/dev/disk1 of=~/mbr1.bin bs=512 count=1
1+0 records in
1+0 records out
512 bytes transferred in 0.002500 secs (204795 bytes/sec)
Michaels-MacBook-Pro:~ michaelwheaton$ hexdump -C ~/mbr0.bin
00000000  33 c0 8e d0 bc 00 7c 8e  c0 8e d8 be 00 7c bf 00  |3.....|......|..|
00000010  06 b9 00 02 fc f3 a4 50  68 1c 06 cb fb b9 04 00  |.......Ph.......|
00000020  bd be 07 80 7e 00 00 7c  0b 0f 85 0e 01 83 c5 10  |....~..|........|
00000030  e2 f1 cd 18 88 56 00 55  c6 46 11 05 c6 46 10 00  |.....V.U.F...F..|
00000040  b4 41 bb aa 55 cd 13 5d  72 0f 81 fb 55 aa 75 09  |.A..U..]r...U.u.|
00000050  f7 c1 01 00 74 03 fe 46  10 66 60 80 7e 10 00 74  |....t..F.f`.~..t|
00000060  26 66 68 00 00 00 00 66  ff 76 08 68 00 00 68 00  |&fh....f.v.h..h.|
00000070  7c 68 01 00 68 10 00 b4  42 8a 56 00 8b f4 cd 13  ||h..h...B.V.....|
00000080  9f 83 c4 10 9e eb 14 b8  01 02 bb 00 7c 8a 56 00  |............|.V.|
00000090  8a 76 01 8a 4e 02 8a 6e  03 cd 13 66 61 73 1c fe  |.v..N..n...fas..|
000000a0  4e 11 75 0c 80 7e 00 80  0f 84 8a 00 b2 80 eb 84  |N.u..~..........|
000000b0  55 32 e4 8a 56 00 cd 13  5d eb 9e 81 3e fe 7d 55  |U2..V...]...>.}U|
000000c0  aa 75 6e ff 76 00 e8 8d  00 75 17 fa b0 d1 e6 64  |.un.v....u.....d|
000000d0  e8 83 00 b0 df e6 60 e8  7c 00 b0 ff e6 64 e8 75  |......`.|....d.u|
000000e0  00 fb b8 00 bb cd 1a 66  23 c0 75 3b 66 81 fb 54  |.......f#.u;f..T|
000000f0  43 50 41 75 32 81 f9 02  01 72 2c 66 68 07 bb 00  |CPAu2....r,fh...|
00000100  00 66 68 00 02 00 00 66  68 08 00 00 00 66 53 66  |.fh....fh....fSf|
00000110  53 66 55 66 68 00 00 00  00 66 68 00 7c 00 00 66  |SfUfh....fh.|..f|
00000120  61 68 00 00 07 cd 1a 5a  32 f6 ea 00 7c 00 00 cd  |ah.....Z2...|...|
00000130  18 a0 b7 07 eb 08 a0 b6  07 eb 03 a0 b5 07 32 e4  |..............2.|
00000140  05 00 07 8b f0 ac 3c 00  74 09 bb 07 00 b4 0e cd  |......<.t.......|
00000150  10 eb f2 f4 eb fd 2b c9  e4 64 eb 00 24 02 e0 f8  |......+..d..$...|
00000160  24 02 c3 49 6e 76 61 6c  69 64 20 70 61 72 74 69  |$..Invalid parti|
00000170  74 69 6f 6e 20 74 61 62  6c 65 00 45 72 72 6f 72  |tion table.Error|
00000180  20 6c 6f 61 64 69 6e 67  20 6f 70 65 72 61 74 69  | loading operati|
00000190  6e 67 20 73 79 73 74 65  6d 00 4d 69 73 73 69 6e  |ng system.Missin|
000001a0  67 20 6f 70 65 72 61 74  69 6e 67 20 73 79 73 74  |g operating syst|
000001b0  65 6d 00 00 00 63 7b 9a  a6 a1 33 20 00 00 00 fe  |em...c{...3 ....|
000001c0  ff ff ee fe ff ff 01 00  00 00 a3 70 3d 3a 00 00  |...........p=:..|
000001d0  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|
*
000001f0  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 55 aa  |..............U.|
00000200
Michaels-MacBook-Pro:~ michaelwheaton$ hexdump -C ~/mbr1.bin
00000000  33 c0 8e d0 bc 00 7c 8e  c0 8e d8 be 00 7c bf 00  |3.....|......|..|
00000010  06 b9 00 02 fc f3 a4 50  68 1c 06 cb fb b9 04 00  |.......Ph.......|
00000020  bd be 07 80 7e 00 00 7c  0b 0f 85 0e 01 83 c5 10  |....~..|........|
00000030  e2 f1 cd 18 88 56 00 55  c6 46 11 05 c6 46 10 00  |.....V.U.F...F..|
00000040  b4 41 bb aa 55 cd 13 5d  72 0f 81 fb 55 aa 75 09  |.A..U..]r...U.u.|
00000050  f7 c1 01 00 74 03 fe 46  10 66 60 80 7e 10 00 74  |....t..F.f`.~..t|
00000060  26 66 68 00 00 00 00 66  ff 76 08 68 00 00 68 00  |&fh....f.v.h..h.|
00000070  7c 68 01 00 68 10 00 b4  42 8a 56 00 8b f4 cd 13  ||h..h...B.V.....|
00000080  9f 83 c4 10 9e eb 14 b8  01 02 bb 00 7c 8a 56 00  |............|.V.|
00000090  8a 76 01 8a 4e 02 8a 6e  03 cd 13 66 61 73 1c fe  |.v..N..n...fas..|
000000a0  4e 11 75 0c 80 7e 00 80  0f 84 8a 00 b2 80 eb 84  |N.u..~..........|
000000b0  55 32 e4 8a 56 00 cd 13  5d eb 9e 81 3e fe 7d 55  |U2..V...]...>.}U|
000000c0  aa 75 6e ff 76 00 e8 8d  00 75 17 fa b0 d1 e6 64  |.un.v....u.....d|
000000d0  e8 83 00 b0 df e6 60 e8  7c 00 b0 ff e6 64 e8 75  |......`.|....d.u|
000000e0  00 fb b8 00 bb cd 1a 66  23 c0 75 3b 66 81 fb 54  |.......f#.u;f..T|
000000f0  43 50 41 75 32 81 f9 02  01 72 2c 66 68 07 bb 00  |CPAu2....r,fh...|
00000100  00 66 68 00 02 00 00 66  68 08 00 00 00 66 53 66  |.fh....fh....fSf|
00000110  53 66 55 66 68 00 00 00  00 66 68 00 7c 00 00 66  |SfUfh....fh.|..f|
00000120  61 68 00 00 07 cd 1a 5a  32 f6 ea 00 7c 00 00 cd  |ah.....Z2...|...|
00000130  18 a0 b7 07 eb 08 a0 b6  07 eb 03 a0 b5 07 32 e4  |..............2.|
00000140  05 00 07 8b f0 ac 3c 00  74 09 bb 07 00 b4 0e cd  |......<.t.......|
00000150  10 eb f2 f4 eb fd 2b c9  e4 64 eb 00 24 02 e0 f8  |......+..d..$...|
00000160  24 02 c3 49 6e 76 61 6c  69 64 20 70 61 72 74 69  |$..Invalid parti|
00000170  74 69 6f 6e 20 74 61 62  6c 65 00 45 72 72 6f 72  |tion table.Error|
00000180  20 6c 6f 61 64 69 6e 67  20 6f 70 65 72 61 74 69  | loading operati|
00000190  6e 67 20 73 79 73 74 65  6d 00 4d 69 73 73 69 6e  |ng system.Missin|
000001a0  67 20 6f 70 65 72 61 74  69 6e 67 20 73 79 73 74  |g operating syst|
000001b0  65 6d 00 00 00 63 7b 9a  e9 48 ee 2a 00 00 80 20  |em...c{..H.*... |
000001c0  21 00 07 fe ff ff 00 08  00 00 00 28 e4 37 00 00  |!..........(.7..|
000001d0  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|
*
000001f0  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 55 aa  |..............U.|
00000200
Michaels-MacBook-Pro:~ michaelwheaton$

I think I did this right for the info you need

balamw · Aug 3, 2012

Mikewh said:
I've done everything from the different forum but still no success.

Link please? Helps us know what you were trying to do.

Thanks,

B

murphychris · Aug 3, 2012

@Mikewh

Both MBRs have bootloader code. Apple's CSM-BIOS can't be configured like a PC BIOS, so you can't choose which one you want to boot from. I'm guessing that it's loading disk0's MBR bootloader code, which you no longer want to boot from. The command to zero out this code:

Code:

sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/disk0 bs=440 count=1

I suggest copy paste to make sure you get it right. And please don't accidentally hit return after disk0 before you fully write out bs=440 count=1 or it will start zeroing your entire disk. bs sets a block size of 440 bytes. count 1 means one such sized block. This zeros the first 440 bytes of sector 0, which is the MBR bootloader area.

balamw · Aug 3, 2012

FWIW, before doing what murphychris suggests, keep a copy of the mbr*.bin files you created earlier on a thumb drive or somewhere safe. If what you're trying doesn't work, you will then be able to restore the bootloader to its current state.

B

Mikewh · Aug 3, 2012

murphychris said:
@Mikewh

Both MBRs have bootloader code. Apple's CSM-BIOS can't be configured like a PC BIOS, so you can't choose which one you want to boot from. I'm guessing that it's loading disk0's MBR bootloader code, which you no longer want to boot from. The command to zero out this code:

Code:

sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/disk0 bs=440 count=1

I suggest copy paste to make sure you get it right. And please don't accidentally hit return after disk0 before you fully write out bs=440 count=1 or it will start zeroing your entire disk. bs sets a block size of 440 bytes. count 1 means one such sized block. This zeros the first 440 bytes of sector 0, which is the MBR bootloader area.

Code:

Michaels-MacBook-Pro:~ michaelwheaton$ sudo dd if=/dev/disk0 of=~/mbr0.bin bs=512 count=1
Password:
Sorry, try again.
Password:
1+0 records in
1+0 records out
512 bytes transferred in 0.000433 secs (1182535 bytes/sec)
Michaels-MacBook-Pro:~ michaelwheaton$ sudo dd if=/dev/disk1 of=~/mbr1.bin bs=512 count=1
1+0 records in
1+0 records out
512 bytes transferred in 0.002098 secs (244060 bytes/sec)
Michaels-MacBook-Pro:~ michaelwheaton$ hexdump -C ~/mbr0.bin
00000000  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|
*
000001b0  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  a6 a1 33 20 00 00 00 fe  |..........3 ....|
000001c0  ff ff ee fe ff ff 01 00  00 00 a3 70 3d 3a 00 00  |...........p=:..|
000001d0  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|
*
000001f0  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 55 aa  |..............U.|
00000200
Michaels-MacBook-Pro:~ michaelwheaton$ hexdump -C ~/mbr1.bin
00000000  33 c0 8e d0 bc 00 7c 8e  c0 8e d8 be 00 7c bf 00  |3.....|......|..|
00000010  06 b9 00 02 fc f3 a4 50  68 1c 06 cb fb b9 04 00  |.......Ph.......|
00000020  bd be 07 80 7e 00 00 7c  0b 0f 85 0e 01 83 c5 10  |....~..|........|
00000030  e2 f1 cd 18 88 56 00 55  c6 46 11 05 c6 46 10 00  |.....V.U.F...F..|
00000040  b4 41 bb aa 55 cd 13 5d  72 0f 81 fb 55 aa 75 09  |.A..U..]r...U.u.|
00000050  f7 c1 01 00 74 03 fe 46  10 66 60 80 7e 10 00 74  |....t..F.f`.~..t|
00000060  26 66 68 00 00 00 00 66  ff 76 08 68 00 00 68 00  |&fh....f.v.h..h.|
00000070  7c 68 01 00 68 10 00 b4  42 8a 56 00 8b f4 cd 13  ||h..h...B.V.....|
00000080  9f 83 c4 10 9e eb 14 b8  01 02 bb 00 7c 8a 56 00  |............|.V.|
00000090  8a 76 01 8a 4e 02 8a 6e  03 cd 13 66 61 73 1c fe  |.v..N..n...fas..|
000000a0  4e 11 75 0c 80 7e 00 80  0f 84 8a 00 b2 80 eb 84  |N.u..~..........|
000000b0  55 32 e4 8a 56 00 cd 13  5d eb 9e 81 3e fe 7d 55  |U2..V...]...>.}U|
000000c0  aa 75 6e ff 76 00 e8 8d  00 75 17 fa b0 d1 e6 64  |.un.v....u.....d|
000000d0  e8 83 00 b0 df e6 60 e8  7c 00 b0 ff e6 64 e8 75  |......`.|....d.u|
000000e0  00 fb b8 00 bb cd 1a 66  23 c0 75 3b 66 81 fb 54  |.......f#.u;f..T|
000000f0  43 50 41 75 32 81 f9 02  01 72 2c 66 68 07 bb 00  |CPAu2....r,fh...|
00000100  00 66 68 00 02 00 00 66  68 08 00 00 00 66 53 66  |.fh....fh....fSf|
00000110  53 66 55 66 68 00 00 00  00 66 68 00 7c 00 00 66  |SfUfh....fh.|..f|
00000120  61 68 00 00 07 cd 1a 5a  32 f6 ea 00 7c 00 00 cd  |ah.....Z2...|...|
00000130  18 a0 b7 07 eb 08 a0 b6  07 eb 03 a0 b5 07 32 e4  |..............2.|
00000140  05 00 07 8b f0 ac 3c 00  74 09 bb 07 00 b4 0e cd  |......<.t.......|
00000150  10 eb f2 f4 eb fd 2b c9  e4 64 eb 00 24 02 e0 f8  |......+..d..$...|
00000160  24 02 c3 49 6e 76 61 6c  69 64 20 70 61 72 74 69  |$..Invalid parti|
00000170  74 69 6f 6e 20 74 61 62  6c 65 00 45 72 72 6f 72  |tion table.Error|
00000180  20 6c 6f 61 64 69 6e 67  20 6f 70 65 72 61 74 69  | loading operati|
00000190  6e 67 20 73 79 73 74 65  6d 00 4d 69 73 73 69 6e  |ng system.Missin|
000001a0  67 20 6f 70 65 72 61 74  69 6e 67 20 73 79 73 74  |g operating syst|
000001b0  65 6d 00 00 00 63 7b 9a  e9 48 ee 2a 00 00 80 20  |em...c{..H.*... |
000001c0  21 00 07 fe ff ff 00 08  00 00 00 28 e4 37 00 00  |!..........(.7..|
000001d0  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|
*
000001f0  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 55 aa  |..............U.|
00000200
Michaels-MacBook-Pro:~ michaelwheaton$

I applied the previous code.
Still unable to boot from bootcamp from thunderbolt drive

murphychris · Aug 3, 2012

Mikewh said:
Still unable to boot from bootcamp from thunderbolt drive

Seems bootloader related still. Let's make sure I've got this right:
1. /dev/disk1 is the Thunderbolt drive?
2. You partitioned and formatted it NTFS in the Windows 7 installer, i.e. the installer saw the drive, let you partition/format it, and
3. Windows 7 successfully installed onto that drive.
4. At boot, with option key, you have a HD icon labeled "Windows" and that's what you're choosing to boot.

That's all correct?

----------

If it is correct, I'd see if this article can help repair the various chain bootloaders Windows uses.

Mikewh · Aug 3, 2012

murphychris said:
Seems bootloader related still. Let's make sure I've got this right:
1. /dev/disk1 is the Thunderbolt drive?
2. You partitioned and formatted it NTFS in the Windows 7 installer, i.e. the installer saw the drive, let you partition/format it, and
3. Windows 7 successfully installed onto that drive.
4. At boot, with option key, you have a HD icon labeled "Windows" and that's what you're choosing to boot.

That's all correct?

----------

If it is correct, I'd see if this article can help repair the various chain bootloaders Windows uses.

1. Yes the /dev/disk1 is the thunderbolt external SSD drive
2. The Windows installer refused to install to this drive. Bootcamp was created on the internal drive and then with norton ghost cloned to the external drive.
3. I can run the bootcamp via vmware fusion but unable to boot natively. (boots to the black screen with cursor)
4. When I press option at start up the "windows" drive is present but when selected it boots to black screen with cursor.

I've tried to boot with USB windows intaller to repair but it states that its not the same version (it is because this was the stick used for bootcamp creation)

I know its likely an mbr/bcd issue but I can't repair it. I have an external drive (non apple) that I tried to boot a repair cd made from the vmware boot but was unsuccessful at boot (black screen cursor). I could buy the apple drive and see if that makes it boot.

Has anyone had success with the rMBP bootcamp off a thunderbolt adapter?

MW

murphychris · Aug 3, 2012

Mikewh said:
2. The Windows installer refused to install to this drive.

It didn't see the drive? Or does see the drive but won't install for what reason?

When I press option at start up the "windows" drive is present but when selected it boots to black screen with cursor.

A lot of the boot process is obscure, in particular on Apple hardware. EFI scans for devices, if a device has an MBR with more than one entry, an entry other than the 0xEE entry is flagged active (bootable), and the MBR bootloader area is not zero'd, you will get a "Windows" labeled icon when booting with option. If chosen, the CSM-BIOS is loaded, and the bootloader code is read and executed. Somewhere in here is when the screen turns black, probably when the CSM-BIOS is enabling BIOS video. That 440 bytes of bootloader code merely tells the computer to jump (chain load) to another LBA on disk where more bootloader code is executed.

It's very easy for one of the bootloaders or the BCD to become mismatched and result in a hanged computer at boot like what you describe. But the fact the Windows installer won't install makes me wonder if there's a missing driver for Windows for the Thunderbolt drive.

Thunderbolt is just a PCIe bus. Instead the enclosure is probably a SATA bridge, but I don't know what Windows needs, if anything, to use that. SATA isn't exactly new and I'd think even a generic driver would work for boot purposes.

Another possibility is that there's some kind of bus reset (SATA or PCIe), either by EFI or by the CSM, that's causing the Thunderbolt drive as a device to "vanish" which would stall the boot from that drive. That some people seem to have success booting CSM-BIOS mode off Thunderbolt drives with some Apple hardware but not other Apple hardware makes me wonder if there's either a bug somewhere or a missing feature.

One way you could test this would be to download a Linux Live CD, e.g. Fedora 17. When booting with option, chose the "Windows" labeled DVD icon. That will CSM-BIOS boot Fedora instead of EFI booting it. See if you can install that and if it's bootable again with option key at startup. If not, it might be worth seeing if booting Fedora 17 with the "Fedora Media" icon option, which EFI boots Fedora, will allow you to install and boot Fedora off this Thunderbolt drive.

It doesn't get you exactly what you want but may narrow down what the problem is and if you can do anything about it. The GRUB bootloader used for Linux distros also has a lot more feedback in the event of loading errors.

Mikewh · Aug 4, 2012

murphychris said:
It didn't see the drive? Or does see the drive but won't install for what reason?

The installer did see the drive and can delete partitions and then format to NTFS. But when selected for install its states unable to install to this drive error 0x80300024.

A lot of the boot process is obscure, in particular on Apple hardware. EFI scans for devices, if a device has an MBR with more than one entry, an entry other than the 0xEE entry is flagged active (bootable), and the MBR bootloader area is not zero'd, you will get a "Windows" labeled icon when booting with option. If chosen, the CSM-BIOS is loaded, and the bootloader code is read and executed. Somewhere in here is when the screen turns black, probably when the CSM-BIOS is enabling BIOS video. That 440 bytes of bootloader code merely tells the computer to jump (chain load) to another LBA on disk where more bootloader code is executed.

It's very easy for one of the bootloaders or the BCD to become mismatched and result in a hanged computer at boot like what you describe. But the fact the Windows installer won't install makes me wonder if there's a missing driver for Windows for the Thunderbolt drive.

Thunderbolt is just a PCIe bus. Instead the enclosure is probably a SATA bridge, but I don't know what Windows needs, if anything, to use that. SATA isn't exactly new and I'd think even a generic driver would work for boot purposes.

Another possibility is that there's some kind of bus reset (SATA or PCIe), either by EFI or by the CSM, that's causing the Thunderbolt drive as a device to "vanish" which would stall the boot from that drive. That some people seem to have success booting CSM-BIOS mode off Thunderbolt drives with some Apple hardware but not other Apple hardware makes me wonder if there's either a bug somewhere or a missing feature.

Is there any difference using Apple USB Superdrive vs Generic external dvd drive? I can buy the apple drive to see if boot with repair dvd works.

I think if I could some how boot to repair I would be able to fix the mbr/bcd.

One way you could test this would be to download a Linux Live CD, e.g. Fedora 17. When booting with option, chose the "Windows" labeled DVD icon. That will CSM-BIOS boot Fedora instead of EFI booting it. See if you can install that and if it's bootable again with option key at startup. If not, it might be worth seeing if booting Fedora 17 with the "Fedora Media" icon option, which EFI boots Fedora, will allow you to install and boot Fedora off this Thunderbolt drive.

It doesn't get you exactly what you want but may narrow down what the problem is and if you can do anything about it. The GRUB bootloader used for Linux distros also has a lot more feedback in the event of loading errors.

I did try to make iso of repair cd and put it in grub usb loader. still came to black screen with cursor. So frustrating.

murphychris · Aug 4, 2012

Mikewh said:
The installer did see the drive and can delete partitions and then format to NTFS. But when selected for install its states unable to install to this drive error 0x80300024.

Seems like that needs to be figured out. If the Windows installer won't install Windows to this disk, it seems reasonable it won't boot.

Is there any difference using Apple USB Superdrive vs Generic external dvd drive? I can buy the apple drive to see if boot with repair dvd works.

?

Unless something has changed, last I read in the 10.7 Boot Camp Guide, you need an internal DVD player. Apple's CSM-BIOS implementation doesn't support booting from USB devices.

----------

Mikewh said:
So frustrating.

This is why I recommend VM. Boot Camp is a complete, utter, PITA.

Mikewh · Aug 4, 2012

murphychris said:
Seems like that needs to be figured out. If the Windows installer won't install Windows to this disk, it seems reasonable it won't boot.

I had this happen with my 2011 MBP and had to move my optibay SSD to the main bay and reinstall DVD drive to install windows.

Unless something has changed, last I read in the 10.7 Boot Camp Guide, you need an internal DVD player. Apple's CSM-BIOS implementation doesn't support booting from USB devices.

The rMBP is like the air without an internal drive but I have a feeling that the apple external drive allows for a repair disk boot. Ill have to try and give the result

murphychris · Aug 4, 2012

Mikewh said:
The rMBP is like the air without an internal drive but I have a feeling that the apple external drive allows for a repair disk boot. Ill have to try and give the result

Yeah I haven't tried this with one of the Macs that supports building a bootable USB stick to see how that works. Maybe some Macs have a different CSM with this capability after all... or USB mass storage is supported in the CSM, but still not as a drive. The Boot Camp guides still say no on external DVD.

AstroZombie138 · Aug 5, 2012

EDIT: Something isn't working. I'm going to try it again

After a lot of trial and error, I've been able to successfully install Win7 on my rMBP on an external thunderbolt drive. Here are the main steps on what I did:

- Open bootcamp assistant, and start like you are going to install on your internal SSD. Make the minimum partition on your internal SSD, make the Win7 install disc on the thumbdrive, etc.

- When Windows starts to install, select the disk tools to partition your external drive, and install Windows on it. This is the key difference.

- When Windows is done installing then reboot to OSX, delete the bootcamp partition on your internal SSD and re-size it for use with your OSX install.

murphychris · Aug 5, 2012

@AstroZombie138

It's quite a good tip.

I'm going to guess that when the USB thumbdrive is created, Boot Camp Assistant is modifying it with drivers that may allow the installer to correctly use a Thunderbolt disk as a destination. I believe part of this modification also allows support for newer graphics chips than the Windows 7 installer knows about.

AstroZombie138 · Aug 5, 2012

I think I spoke to soon. I just tried rebooting and it won't boot to the Windows HD anymore. I get a BIOS screen and then just a blinking cursor.

I did have it working last night, and rebooted several times during the windows installation and patches. I didn't however try it again after rebooting to OSX.

I'm going to try a few more things and then I'll let you know how it turns out.

iMacDragon · Aug 5, 2012

Considering it apparently worked fine on 2011 machines, and everyones getting this same flashing cursor on rmbp. It definitely points to a bug/change in apples CSM code to me, alas.. and probably one that won't be fixed as they don't seem to care too much about Windows booting as long as it works to spec they say it does.

murphychris · Aug 5, 2012

AstroZombie138 said:
I think I spoke to soon. I just tried rebooting and it won't boot to the Windows HD anymore. I get a BIOS screen and then just a blinking cursor.

Interesting. This sounds vaguely like a problem I saw a while back where BIOS RAID (fakeraid) was causing GPT corruption. Is this Thunderbolt enclosure an array or is it a single disk? And does the manufacturer of the Thunderbolt enclosure specifically say it can be used with Windows 7?

murphychris · Aug 5, 2012

iMacDragon said:
...points to a bug/change in apples CSM...

Hmm. Could be.

But if it works once, and then later doesn't work, that sounds like corruption. And it should be very concerning in any case if bootloaders, filesystems, or partition maps are being corrupted. I don't think the CSM could do this directly. But there could be a CSM bug causing either memory corruption or corruption specifically in the Thunderbolt bus data stream, which in turn causes code to corrupt disk contents.

To prove this, you'd need a working system, and create a sector copy from sector 0 through to the end of the Windows partition. That freezes that disk in a particular state. So it should be possible to write the image to disk, and temporarily reproduce successful booting. Once it no longer boots, image again, and compare the two images and see what's changing and how.

In any case if proven, I think Apple would fix it. I'd contact the product manufacturer, they must have heard of this differentiation in behavior between models by now, and may already have a bug filed with Apple.

The 2011 models had a lot of firmware updates, and many had to do with Thunderbolt.

AstroZombie138 · Aug 5, 2012

murphychris said:
Interesting. This sounds vaguely like a problem I saw a while back where BIOS RAID (fakeraid) was causing GPT corruption. Is this Thunderbolt enclosure an array or is it a single disk? And does the manufacturer of the Thunderbolt enclosure specifically say it can be used with Windows 7?

I am using the Seagate GoFlex.

I did a reinstall this afternoon and was able to get it to work again on the thunderbolt drive - I can reboot into windows on the drive as many times as needed, except I can no longer do so the first time I reboot into OSX. This makes me think it is a problem with the bootloader.

murphychris · Aug 5, 2012

AstroZombie138 said:
I can reboot into windows on the drive as many times as needed, except I can no longer do so the first time I reboot into OSX. This makes me think it is a problem with the bootloader.

Wait. So as long as you never boot Mac OS X, you can always boot and reboot Windows? And as soon as you boot Mac OS X one time, Windows is in effect broken?

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