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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:44 PM   #51
Topper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace View Post
Nice words Jony. Let's see you make a new Mac Pro now ok ?
Yep, that's the first thought to came to my mind especially since we now know that profit isn't the number one objective.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:45 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by boss.king View Post
If your goal isn't making money, then why not lower your profit margins and sell your stuff at a reasonable price?
Why not? Because those profits finance important aspects of Apple's business like capital investment--using CASH without incurring debt; like R&D which is VERY expensive, so that they can keep coming out with great products and improving existing profits.

Reasonable prices? They're ALREADY reasonable to anyone who appreciates the quality of Apple products.

And NO, those purchasing Apple products aren't INVESTING in Apple as such. A purchase implies an equitable exchange of money for product with NO future obligation other than limited warranty coverage.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:46 PM   #53
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Reasonable prices? They're ALREADY reasonable to anyone who appreciates the quality of Apple products.
A $29 iphone bumper sounds reasonable to you?
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:48 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by nick_elt View Post
I like Apple but reading this my bs meter started to go off quite a bit. U wouldnt have upgrades like the 4s if you wernt focused on making profit
True dat.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:48 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Zunjine View Post
Sure, there are good people at all sorts of companies making great products because they want to make great products. That said, I think Apple does have a rare culture - a culture that doesn't talk about money but rather about changing the world. This is what Jobs was all about and why Apple does stuff that other companies don't.

You can believe what you like but I tend to avoid discourse with people who accuse anyone who's opinion differs from there's of "blind fanboi-ism". It's aggressive and disrespectful and tends to be a sign of intellectual cowardice.
$29 for a piece of rubber with a couple buttons on it.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:49 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Reach9 View Post
what an incorrect statement. Every competitive company's goal is to maximize profits. Their goal is to make money.
Jonny is trying to make it look like Apple is different than any other company, when in it's definition it's the same as Samsung, RIM, Google etc, ... their goal is to make money.
Apple makes great products to get money, but money is still the main driving force.

Also, if a two-toned iPhone is their 'best work yet'.. then i'm unpleasantly surprised.
Bottom line is to make money, because a company can’t exist otherwise, but HOW you make that is what makes the difference.


Steve once said if you make a great product then people will buy it, if you don’t they won’t. Pretty simple concept. The money problem takes care of itself.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:49 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Zunjine View Post
You want semantics? Definition: The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning.

Yep, I want to make this about meaning. So shoot me.

Profit is a result of what you do. It isn't what you do. You must live in a very sad, depressing little world. I hope you find your way out one day.

----------



Are you trying to argue that there are right and wrong things to consider valuable? Value is a personal choice - you don't get to tell people what they should and shouldn't value.
One minute we're talking about goals and priorities, and now you switch to "what you do"? And yes, I agree with your statement. Apple is first and foremost a hardware company--that's what they do. But they sell hardware because they want to make a profit.

Nope, I am not. I am arguing that part of the utility generated from Apple products does not equate to "serving and enhancing people's lives". There are many examples in this world where superior products have failed to be as successful as their inferior counterparts.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:50 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by jmggs View Post
Hypocrite. That why they offer:

- No Proper software updates to old and very capable devices
- Planed obsolesce for example EFI32 on 64bit hardware.
- No more Servers and Professional tools
- And they say that Apple is green, lol

: Minus being green all above serve as proof that Apple is not about making money a la Microsoft ( which tries HARD to PLEASE even the dead ).
: Yeah, if you are mad just NEVER buy an apple again. See?
: I doubt he/she can see!
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:51 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by boss.king View Post
If your goal isn't making money, then why not lower your profit margins and sell your stuff at a reasonable price?
Because their shareholders don't have the same goal and they are required to maximize profits.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:51 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Reach9 View Post
what an incorrect statement. Every competitive company's goal is to maximize profits. Their goal is to make money.
Jonny is trying to make it look like Apple is different than any other company, when in it's definition it's the same as Samsung, RIM, Google etc, ... their goal is to make money.
Apple makes great products to get money, but money is still the main driving force.

Also, if a two-toned iPhone is their 'best work yet'.. then i'm unpleasantly surprised.
The bottom line is still the same...he just phrased it in a very marketable, PR friendly fashion...but it you design great things the profits will show up.

I think the key is the motivation behind designing. If an artist of any type is first and foremost thinking about $$$...the product outcome will be hampered by it. Besides...its the beancounters job to market and sell the well made product.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:51 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by burnside View Post
A $29 iphone bumper sounds reasonable to you?
Biggest scam are cases in general...not just Apple one's.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:51 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by DanielSw View Post
Why not? Because those profits finance important aspects of Apple's business like capital investment--using CASH without incurring debt; like R&D which is VERY expensive, so that they can keep coming out with great products and improving existing profits.

Reasonable prices? They're ALREADY reasonable to anyone who appreciates the quality of Apple products.
But they're doing more than not operating at a loss. They're making record profits. Surely then their goal is making money. If They didn't care about the money they could easily drop their prices, and still continue to make make money.

I'm not knocking Apple for making money, I'm pointing out that what Ive said is BS. I appreciate the quality of Apple products, but I'd appreciate it equally if they knocked $100 off the price tag. The quality argument is played out, many tech companies make great quality stuff, but they still charge less for it.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:52 PM   #63
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sounds like a bunch of BS if you ask me.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:52 PM   #64
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Ignoring the Mac Pro, killing off the 17" MacBook Pro, Apple is not focused on Pro customers anymore, their focus is on profits -- and what is profitable for Apple is selling iDevices, iPhones, iPads, MacBooks, and the iTunes store. Solely that -- makes up over 90% of their profit. The desktop machines make up a fractional portion of maybe 1% of the total profit Apple makes now. It was not that way 15 or 20 years ago. Apple is a different company now. They used to be focused on making great computers, now they are mainly focused on purely making money, and tons of it. Sorry Jonathan, you got it wrong...YOU may be focused on great design work...but the driving forces that manage the sales, marketing, and distribution have turned Apple into a money-making machine-horse. Money has become the main focus of Apple over anything else, no matter what Tim Cook or Jonathan Ive or the Engineers say, it's easy to see through it all.

What I mean to say is, they are still making great products...but the focus is more on money, not being a niche, specialized company that caters to a professional and creative elite, that Apple once was. When you see Apple now selling stuff to mainland China -- they are doing this purely to make money. Apple once was a direct source of hardware support and all of their machines were made in the USA, in Freemont California. Now they are made in Shenzhen China!! -- yes, because Apple is greedy and focused on cheap labor to maximize their profits tenfold.

I still love the Mac, I still love Apple products, I still love the Mac OS -- but I am not as warm and fuzzy about the company as I was when I was growing up as a teenager.
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Last edited by WardC; Jul 30, 2012 at 04:02 PM.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:53 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by boss.king View Post
If your goal isn't making money, then why not lower your profit margins and sell your stuff at a reasonable price?
Why are so many people so literal about his statement? What he means is that money doesn't drive their product design or decisions about what to produce. That doesn't mean that they don't want to make any profits. If I say my goal in life isn't to make money, that doesn't mean I want to be poor. This actually requires explanation??
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:53 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
Biggest scam are cases in general...not just Apple one's.
Well then, Apple is scamming us.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:54 PM   #67
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LOL! What total BS. Profit margin is ridiculously high. What he really means is "great design is one of the many tools we employ in order to make sure we make a buttload of $."
Yours is the only BS here. Apple's profit margin is NOT ridiculously high. Just because no other company is ABLE to command such profit margins doesn't mean that Apple's is out of line.

If the majority of Apple customers thought like you, they wouldn't be Apple customers.

One guiding principle for pricing in any market is, "charge what the market will bear." This applies to both Apple and others. For "others" cheap pricing seems to be the only way they can sell anything at all.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:54 PM   #68
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Apple makes exceptional products—I’ll be the first one to proclaim that.

But.

This USB cable sells for the exact same price as the company’s most advanced operating system does.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:55 PM   #69
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bought my first Mac in 1990 - the transformation of Apple has slowly seen its hardware and software become the personal assistant in charge of keeping my life organized, educated and enriched. can't imagine life any other way-thanks jony.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:56 PM   #70
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Ive is saying what Steve has been saying for nearly 30 years.

Great product first, everything else second.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:56 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Rennir View Post
One minute we're talking about goals and priorities, and now you switch to "what you do"? And yes, I agree with your statement. Apple is first and foremost a hardware company--that's what they do. But they sell hardware because they want to make a profit.

Nope, I am not. I am arguing that part of the utility generated from Apple products does not equate to "serving and enhancing people's lives". There are many examples in this world where superior products have failed to be as successful as their inferior counterparts.
Yes, there are different ways to express something. I don't see what your point is.

As for "utility", you seem to be trying to redefine value. And, riddle me this, how do you define 'superior'? What's superior to you may not be so to others. You're suffering from a very narrow framework.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:56 PM   #72
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I love Apple but this is a bunch of BS. If they were not looking to make "profit", their products wouldn't be so overpriced. A lot of people bought the iPhone 4S because they only made Siri available for that device when the iPhone 4 is more than capable of handling Siri.

Cut his salary in half and let's see if he will be talking like that then...

Apple is a great company, probably the best one out there but profit is your number one goal like any other company in this world.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:57 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by flux73 View Post
Why are so many people so literal about his statement? What he means is that money doesn't drive their product design or decisions about what to produce. That doesn't mean that they don't want to make any profits. If I say my goal in life isn't to make money, that doesn't mean I want to be poor. This actually requires explanation??
But if you don't want to be poor, then one of your goals is to make money.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 03:57 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by TimAlia View Post
So that Podcasts app... is that focused on great product or profits?
I thought that app was free?
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 04:02 PM   #75
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Game changing products don't come along every year. It's just not possible.
Yep.

Quote:
iPod - Destroyed CD/portable market. Changed Music industry forever. New business model.
No, MP3 players existed and were already starting to eat away at the CD player market, I had MP3 players before the iPod, so did lots of people I know. It just happened to be the most popular because of marketing. Sorry. Just being popular doesn't make you the one who started changing the game. The cracks in the portable CD player market were already appearing before the iPod came around.

Quote:
iPhone - Destroyed most phone makers. Only few remain. Smart phone era is born. Portable 'computer' in your hand.
Destoyed phone makers? Like who? All the major players are still there. And no, it did not start the Smart Phone market, it started a large CONSUMER Smartphone martket, SmartPhones were already getting popular and common place in business before the iPhone, Via Windows Mobile, RIM and Palm. Again, Apple wass't the first here, just had the first popular consumer device.

Quote:
iPad - Destroying PC/Laptop market. Individuals realizing that tablet is all they need vs bulky desktop/laptops.
Yes, its destroying the PC/Laptop Market...which is why about 80 PCs million shipped last quarter. The iPad will only replace the Laptop/PC for people who don't do anything serious on their machines. The iPad is to limited to be considered a PC replacement, a suppetment. But not a replacement. Hardware is weak, iOS is limited, very small amount of programs available. ( compared to windows which has a couple million programs written for it, and 1.2 billion users )

And screw Ive, if profits didnt matter, then lets cut those margins

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
LOL! What total BS. Profit margin is ridiculously high. What he really means is "great design is one of the many tools we employ in order to make sure we make a buttload of $."
Yep, if he didnt care about profits, he could most likely cut prices by 35%, and still make bucket loads of cash.
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