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Old Aug 17, 2012, 12:32 PM   #1
mic j
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MKV to M4V Container Change

Lot's of talk on the board about just changing BR containers so that source material quality is not compromised. Can someone verify that for the aTV3:

1) Forced and normal subtitles work
2) All functions such as Pause, Play, Stop, FF, REV, chapter skip, etc. work
3) DD-MA works
4) Streaming works as well (no more hiccups)

I have read conflicting info on this and if anyone can verify these items, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

I forgot one other thing: How does aTV3 handle the peak bitrates of an "uncompressed" source?
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Last edited by mic j; Aug 17, 2012 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Update
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 03:15 PM   #2
MacinJosh
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Can't give a general answer. Some work fine, some have problems with FF and REV and other minor issues. It's a case-by-case situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post
Lot's of talk on the board about just changing BR containers so that source material quality is not compromised. Can someone verify that for the aTV3:

1) Forced and normal subtitles work
2) All functions such as Pause, Play, Stop, FF, REV, chapter skip, etc. work
3) DD-MA works
4) Streaming works as well (no more hiccups)

I have read conflicting info on this and if anyone can verify these items, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

I forgot one other thing: How does aTV3 handle the peak bitrates of an "uncompressed" source?
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 04:31 PM   #3
mic j
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Just tried to convert h.264 mkv to mp4 using mp4tools. Everything goes fine until last step of muxing, it stops, and I get an error. After going back and reading through the guide, it states that only text based subs can be muxed as soft subs. Therefore, VOBSUB or PGS subs cannot be muxed into the file, only burned in. Unless I am missing something, the subtitle function of a movie cannot be incorporated into an mp4 file made from a mkv by a simple container change.
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 04:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post
Just tried to convert h.264 mkv to mp4 using mp4tools. Everything goes fine until last step of muxing, it stops, and I get an error. After going back and reading through the guide, it states that only text based subs can be muxed as soft subs. Therefore, VOBSUB or PGS subs cannot be muxed into the file, only burned in. Unless I am missing something, the subtitle function of a movie cannot be incorporated into an mp4 file made from a mkv by a simple container change.
Come on ATV3 Jailbreak!
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 09:36 AM   #5
hipnetic
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You would need to pull out the subtitle, convert it to a compatible type (recommendations would be appreciated, as I'd like to know this myself), and remux it back in.

Or, you can try to track down a text version of the subtitle online. I tried this a month ago for one of my movies and found it to be very difficult. There are sites that specialize in this, but they don't seem to do a very good job of letting you search just for forced subtitles. I eventually found the subtitle track I was looking for, and then discovered that it was riddled with typos.
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 05:52 PM   #6
mic j
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hipnetic View Post
You would need to pull out the subtitle, convert it to a compatible type (recommendations would be appreciated, as I'd like to know this myself), and remux it back in.

Or, you can try to track down a text version of the subtitle online. I tried this a month ago for one of my movies and found it to be very difficult. There are sites that specialize in this, but they don't seem to do a very good job of letting you search just for forced subtitles. I eventually found the subtitle track I was looking for, and then discovered that it was riddled with typos.
I have posts on this forum on how to create srt files from both VOBSUB and PGS sources
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 05:57 PM   #7
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My guess would certainly be that ffwd, play , pause, and skip (and "stuttering" or dropping frames) would vary wildly depending on the actual source and the network being streamed over.

I am going to suggest that Saving Private Ryan done in the say would be likely to stutter at least somewhat, even on a healthy network whereas something much less complex and grainy like ... say Frost/Nixon would probably be useable. Just my.02.
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 06:29 PM   #8
mic j
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I was starting to doubt my sanity. Everyone saying you should just change containers for BR and keep that virgin quality. But between control, subtitle and audio conversion requirement, and streaming issues, it just doesn't seem like the quality gain is significant enough to deal with all the other "stuff". So, I'll just keep HBin' and saving my original mkvs.
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 08:06 PM   #9
dynaflash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post
I was starting to doubt my sanity.
Well, I cannot speak to your sanity ... but if you don't want to take a chance on the source ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post
So, I'll just keep HBin' and saving my original mkvs.
Never knew "HandBrake" is a verb ... lol.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 01:10 PM   #10
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Mkvtomp4 works very well including converting subs
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=163050

It's a windows app so use VMware or bootcamp.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 01:20 PM   #11
mic j
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skoosht View Post
Mkvtomp4 works very well including converting subs
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=163050

It's a windows app so use VMware or bootcamp.
It does not convert subtitles. "- Support subtitle formats: srt, ass, ssa, ttxt. Changing colors for subtitles." All of those subtitles are text based. The only thing I see that it does that mp4Tools does't do is metadata tagging. I don't really need that as I use Subler for my "finishing" needs.
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Last edited by mic j; Aug 19, 2012 at 01:29 PM.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 01:38 PM   #12
skoosht
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post
It does not convert subtitles. "- Support subtitle formats: srt, ass, ssa, ttxt. Changing colors for subtitles." All of those subtitles are text based. The only thing I see that it does that mp4Tools does't do is metadata tagging. I don't really need that as I use Subler for my "finishing" needs.
Correct, my bad. Yes only txt based subs.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 01:43 PM   #13
lessismo
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From limited exeperience, a bit of feedback and personal opinion. Short so straighforward, pls dont shoot me too much

I tried for one month to make proper DVD and BD backup, close to source, playable by ATV3.
DVD is easy with HB High RF16, works great.
BD is not, I use MakeMKV, Remux and Subler, only HBing High RF15 if video is VC-1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post
Lot's of talk on the board about just changing BR containers so that source material quality is not compromised.
Mkv is technically better, in terms of flexibility especially (for BD: VC-1, Vobsub, PGS). Still prefer mp4, industrial standard better supported by players (soft and hard).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post
Can someone verify that for the aTV3:
1) Forced and normal subtitles work
I prefer text subs to VobSub and PGS, letters have better shape, easy to read. I failed so far to get forced subs starting by default.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post
2) All functions such as Pause, Play, Stop, FF, REV, chapter skip, etc. work
All files optimised via Subler, aTV cable connected on local network.
No pb out of FF and REV that work but limited to buffer, ie. limited by network speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post
3) DD-MA works
You mean Dolby TrueHD ? Core part of it [so a simple AC3], when exists, should work being passthrough by aTV.
Still I did not succeed so far. May be due to MKV actually, more info here.

Now Im surprised by such "audio lossless" for movies entousiasm. Most people does not have a proper 5.1 audio system anyway.
Close subject: I myself have aprox 2k CD ALAC encoded I started to rip 10 years ago. Apple never proposed that via its store. People are just not interested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post
4) Streaming works as well (no more hiccups)
(...)
I forgot one other thing: How does aTV3 handle the peak bitrates of an "uncompressed" source?
No pb so far.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 04:36 PM   #14
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Come on ATV3 Jailbreak!
Why? Just use Mountain Lion's AirPlay and Rowmote. Apple will have apps on the ATV before there is a jailbreak.

Philip
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 04:41 PM   #15
mic j
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Why? Just use Mountain Lion's AirPlay and Rowmote. Apple will have apps on the ATV before there is a jailbreak.

Philip
Uhhh....because I don't want to spend $1K+ on a new Mac.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 05:34 PM   #16
luke.mac1
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Can you not just use airplay mirroring?
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 06:58 PM   #17
The DRis
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Why? Just use Mountain Lion's AirPlay and Rowmote. Apple will have apps on the ATV before there is a jailbreak.

Philip
I have a 2010 MacBook Pro. AirPlay doesn't work.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 04:55 AM   #18
monk3r
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I just use IVI - it's in the mac app store and on their site. I converted all my MKVs to M4Vs this week. Just make sure 'Pass Through' conversion is checked as it doesn't re-encode anything then - just changes the container. It also adds meta data in a a bonus!
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 08:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luke.mac1 View Post
Can you not just use airplay mirroring?
I don't find airplay mirroring to be smooth enough. There are these microstutters that are really annoying. Video streaming really benefits from at least a couple of seconds buffering, like I suppose itunes does.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 08:51 AM   #20
mic j
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Originally Posted by omenatarhuri View Post
I don't find airplay mirroring to be smooth enough. There are these microstutters that are really annoying. Video streaming really benefits from at least a couple of seconds buffering, like I suppose itunes does.
That was my problem with it. It looked like the frame rate was slightly off or something. Motion (in videos) was not natural.
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 06:32 PM   #21
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I use https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mkv2...23091855?mt=12 and just recently converted a 500+ mov library to make it iTunes compatible.

The app worked great and the files play just fine over my network; hardwired Cat6. Even when it was over WiFi I only occasionally had a "hiccup".
All of my movies, music, etc are hosted on my headless Mac Mini server.

Got tired of having to keep up with the jailbreak scene, Plex is great but I've gone no-jailbreak and it is much easier now( after the couple days of converting my library )
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 03:28 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by mic j View Post
That was my problem with it. It looked like the frame rate was slightly off or something. Motion (in videos) was not natural.
I've been quite happy with iVi so far. It's great how it packages together the conversion and metadata fetching.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 08:19 AM   #23
mic j
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I've been quite happy with iVi so far. It's great how it packages together the conversion and metadata fetching.
Can you tell me why you quoted my comments on AirParrot in your post? Looks like your a shill, to me.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 08:40 AM   #24
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I've been quite happy with iVi so far. It's great how it packages together the conversion and metadata fetching.
When converting mkvs, do you know if iVi converts the audio from AAC to A3C? I finally figured out that was the missing step for me to get 5.1 through my Apple TV 3.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 10:37 AM   #25
SirYossi
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Smart Converter Pro

Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post
Just tried to convert h.264 mkv to mp4 using mp4tools. Everything goes fine until last step of muxing, it stops, and I get an error. After going back and reading through the guide, it states that only text based subs can be muxed as soft subs. Therefore, VOBSUB or PGS subs cannot be muxed into the file, only burned in. Unless I am missing something, the subtitle function of a movie cannot be incorporated into an mp4 file made from a mkv by a simple container change.
Hands down the best converter I have used is the Smart Converter Pro. I use it all the time to convert AVI to ATV and MKV to ATV all the time. The program has presets designed for what you will use it for. I just dump about 6 to 10 shows in the batch window and walk away for an hour or so and they are all converted. Converted a 2 hours AVI and it takes about 10 mins and 2 Hour MKV takes about 30 seconds. - Granted time will vary depending on what speed your computer is. I convert 99% of my stuff with a 2.7 Ghz Quad Core iMac and compaired to a 2.4ghz Dual Core MBP it is like night and day. What takes 10 mins on the imac may take an hour or so on the MBP but as long as the source file is fine the conversion will be fine as well. Many of the corructions in converting are problems with the source file not always the conversion software. Since i been using Smart Converter Pro I have zero failures to convert and I have been using it since March of 2012
They do have a lite or demo version if you want to try before you buy but well worth every penny. $9.99 in the app store atm
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