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Old Aug 28, 2012, 09:03 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by musicpenguy View Post
Apple is making your software purchases more and more valuable by doing rather big minor updates. This is true to iWork, Final Cut Pro X and many of their other apps.
I would have no problem if Apple did update iWork. The thing is: I don't see any updates to Pages for Mac...
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 09:10 AM   #27
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I would have no problem if Apple did update iWork. The thing is: I don't see any updates to Pages for Mac...
They just did an update when ML came out. If you installed off the DVD's, then you may not get the updates. It happened in my system, it didn't detect them (actually deleted them) and I had to re-install. You can also download the patches / updates by hand from Apple (if you've purchased on DVD).
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 11:12 PM   #28
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They just did an update when ML came out. If you installed off the DVD's, then you may not get the updates. It happened in my system, it didn't detect them (actually deleted them) and I had to re-install. You can also download the patches / updates by hand from Apple (if you've purchased on DVD).
Yes, there was an update when the rMBP came out. But I don't see any substatial updates. The piece of software I use most would be Pages. It was updated in July 2011 to support the features of OS X Lion. Then it was updated again nearly a year later, to add iCloud support, support for retina display and dictation. Is that it? It seems like Pages is just being updated to keep up with the latest improvements of OS X, but it gets no features of its own. C'mon, Apple, where are the real features of word processors?
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Old Aug 31, 2012, 05:01 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by skaertus View Post
C'mon, Apple, where are the real features of word processors?
Like which features? If you feel that you are missing some features, you might want to try a completely different approach to (proper) typesetting, i.e. LaTeX?
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Old Sep 1, 2012, 06:54 PM   #30
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Like which features? If you feel that you are missing some features, you might want to try a completely different approach to (proper) typesetting, i.e. LaTeX?
I've tried LaTeX solutions before, and no, they don't fit my needs.

There are lots of features which Pages don't have such as cross-references, for instance. Although Word for Windows has them all, it uses only about 50 MB of RAM while running, and Pages uses more than 70 MB.
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Old Sep 1, 2012, 08:53 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by skaertus View Post
I've tried LaTeX solutions before, and no, they don't fit my needs.

There are lots of features which Pages don't have such as cross-references, for instance. Although Word for Windows has them all, it uses only about 50 MB of RAM while running, and Pages uses more than 70 MB.
Funnily enough, LaTeX kicks ass at cross-references. Dig a bit deeper.
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Old Sep 3, 2012, 07:41 PM   #32
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Funnily enough, LaTeX kicks ass at cross-references. Dig a bit deeper.
In fact, I found LaTeX a little bit complicated to learn, and not half as pleasant to use as Microsoft Word for Windows. It's very convenient to have a WYSIWYG word processor. Plus, it has all the bells and whistles without being a memory hog. And I'm into human sciences, so I guess I'm not in real need of LaTeX. In addition, everybody else who I send my files to expect to receive them in .DOC or .DOCX. They are the kind of people who think that Word is the only word processor on Earth and they cannot handle another filetype.

If I had no other option, I would try LaTeX. But Word (for Windows, not for Mac) fits my needs perfectly, and I see no reason not to use it. And it is a real shame that Mac OS doesn't have a word processor that's up to it, and that people may feel the need to try completely different solutions (such as LaTeX) in order to fill the gap here.
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 11:26 AM   #33
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In fact, I found LaTeX a little bit complicated to learn, and not half as pleasant to use as Microsoft Word for Windows. It's very convenient to have a WYSIWYG word processor.
For a WYSIWYG "word processor", use Adobe InDesign! Otherwise, LaTeX~

And LaTeX is not only for "non-human" sciences. I even unpacked the Game of Throne novel I bought in ePub format and regenerate it in LaTeX because I like its typesetting (put the PDF generated by LaTeX into your iPad and read it on the retina display, that is gorgeous!)
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 09:01 PM   #34
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For a WYSIWYG "word processor", use Adobe InDesign! Otherwise, LaTeX~

And LaTeX is not only for "non-human" sciences. I even unpacked the Game of Throne novel I bought in ePub format and regenerate it in LaTeX because I like its typesetting (put the PDF generated by LaTeX into your iPad and read it on the retina display, that is gorgeous!)
Well, InDesign is in fact a desktop publishing software for short documents, and not a word processor. It doesn't have the required features, and it's not proper for the task.

I've tried to use LaTeX, but I didn't find it simple or pleasant to use. Word, on the other hand, is simple and pleasant.

If I write in LaTeX, would I be able to exchange documents with everybody else? I don't write documents to print at home. I send papers for journals to publish, and in my area of knowledge all articles must be submitted in .DOC format (or .RTF). If I submit articles in .ODT, .PDF or any other file format, it will likely be refused. And I receive these documents back with comments and modifications in track changes. It's very easy and convenient to have Word for these purposes.

And what about Word 2013 for Windows? Have you tested it? It can open and edit .PDF files, and it worked perfectly with me (so far). Can LaTeX or Pages do that?
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 10:31 PM   #35
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I'd love to see an update to Keynote. I use that thing a couple of times per week. I love it, but there are a few things that could use improving. Apple seem to be pretty busy over there these days!
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 03:31 AM   #36
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In fact, I found LaTeX a little bit complicated to learn, and not half as pleasant to use as Microsoft Word for Windows. It's very convenient to have a WYSIWYG word processor. Plus, it has all the bells and whistles without being a memory hog. And I'm into human sciences, so I guess I'm not in real need of LaTeX. In addition, everybody else who I send my files to expect to receive them in .DOC or .DOCX. They are the kind of people who think that Word is the only word processor on Earth and they cannot handle another filetype.

If I had no other option, I would try LaTeX. But Word (for Windows, not for Mac) fits my needs perfectly, and I see no reason not to use it. And it is a real shame that Mac OS doesn't have a word processor that's up to it, and that people may feel the need to try completely different solutions (such as LaTeX) in order to fill the gap here.
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 05:19 AM   #37
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What I have never understood about Office is why it still has so many modal dialogs which block interaction with anything behind. It seems very old fashioned UX.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 04:20 PM   #38
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I may be wrong but I thought I saw a new transition during the recent event, when the 30 pin connector morphed into the new design.

Now it could have been a prerendered movie but apple have frequently used unreleased versions of keynote in their presentations.

I'm going to hope that iWork and iBooks Author get a mention/update alongside an iPad mini. I am however ready for more disappointment as iWork for OS X stagnates in order to allow iOS iWork to work on new mobile devices instead.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 05:15 PM   #39
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I may be wrong but I thought I saw a new transition during the recent event, when the 30 pin connector morphed into the new design.

Now it could have been a prerendered movie but apple have frequently used unreleased versions of keynote in their presentations.

I'm going to hope that iWork and iBooks Author get a mention/update alongside an iPad mini. I am however ready for more disappointment as iWork for OS X stagnates in order to allow iOS iWork to work on new mobile devices instead.
If Apple doesn't keep updating iWork and Microsoft doesn't release a 2014 version of Office... then Mac users will be orphans of office suites? Is that it?
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 05:54 PM   #40
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The funny thing is, even though Apple has not made any significant updates to iWork '09, Keynote is still the best presentation App on the Mac, and according to this current Macrumors poll, Pages is still regarded as the best word processor for the Mac as well.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 06:52 PM   #41
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The funny thing is, even though Apple has not made any significant updates to iWork '09, Keynote is still the best presentation App on the Mac, and according to this current Macrumors poll, Pages is still regarded as the best word processor for the Mac as well.
"best word processor for the Mac", you said.

Well, that's the whole point. Apple Pages and Keynote may be regarded as the best word processor and presentation softwares for the Mac by many users, despite not having a significant update in almost four years.

And that's just because Microsoft Office for Mac is a very buggy piece of software. It seems like it was made by Microsoft just to prove the point that Windows is better.

But one may well note that Microsoft Office 2013 for Windows is just around the corner to be released, and it's a great piece of software. Lots of features. Word for Windows can now open and edit PDF files while keeping the original formatting intact.

Does it really matter if iWork is or is not the best office suite for the Mac? What really matters is that there is a great office suite for Windows in which Microsoft is investing about a billion dollars a year and it's shapping even better. That's where the real competition is. Office for Windows is the thing. Office for Mac doesn't really count.

And while Microsoft Office for Windows keeps getting better, iWork seems to be gathering dust. Does Apple even care about it? It seems like that Apple thinks that nobody is going back to Windows just because of Office, or that nobody needs all the features Office has. But it may well be wrong.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 05:23 AM   #42
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"best word processor for the Mac", you said.

Well, that's the whole point. Apple Pages and Keynote may be regarded as the best word processor and presentation softwares for the Mac by many users, despite not having a significant update in almost four years.

And that's just because Microsoft Office for Mac is a very buggy piece of software. It seems like it was made by Microsoft just to prove the point that Windows is better.

But one may well note that Microsoft Office 2013 for Windows is just around the corner to be released, and it's a great piece of software. Lots of features. Word for Windows can now open and edit PDF files while keeping the original formatting intact.

Does it really matter if iWork is or is not the best office suite for the Mac? What really matters is that there is a great office suite for Windows in which Microsoft is investing about a billion dollars a year and it's shapping even better. That's where the real competition is. Office for Windows is the thing. Office for Mac doesn't really count.

And while Microsoft Office for Windows keeps getting better, iWork seems to be gathering dust. Does Apple even care about it? It seems like that Apple thinks that nobody is going back to Windows just because of Office, or that nobody needs all the features Office has. But it may well be wrong.
I have re-read your original post, and I suggest you get a copy of Parallels and that will enable you to run MS Office 2010 /2013 on your Mac. I agree with you, while Office for Mac 2011, is the best version of Office for Mac Microsoft have ever made, it still lags behind the Windows version of office. In particular I find the Mac version of office to be sluggish compared to the windows version of office. God knows what Microsoft used to code the Excel calculation engine in Office 2011, but it feels like it was written in Basic.

However iWork was never designed to compete directly with MS Office, and probably never will. The two products have different target markets. Office was designed to be a corporate feature rich Office suite, and iWork is designed to be a powerful, but easy to use consumer 'office' suite. So if you are expecting Apple to release a version of iWork to compete feature wise with Microsoft's office suite, you are going to be disappointed as it will never happen.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 07:05 AM   #43
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I have re-read your original post, and I suggest you get a copy of Parallels and that will enable you to run MS Office 2010 /2013 on your Mac. I agree with you, while Office for Mac 2011, is the best version of Office for Mac Microsoft have ever made, it still lags behind the Windows version of office. In particular I find the Mac version of office to be sluggish compared to the windows version of office. God knows what Microsoft used to code the Excel calculation engine in Office 2011, but it feels like it was written in Basic.
I guess you are right. Although Office 2011 is much better than Office 2008, it is still crap.

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However iWork was never designed to compete directly with MS Office, and probably never will. The two products have different target markets. Office was designed to be a corporate feature rich Office suite, and iWork is designed to be a powerful, but easy to use consumer 'office' suite. So if you are expecting Apple to release a version of iWork to compete feature wise with Microsoft's office suite, you are going to be disappointed as it will never happen.
I am aware that iWork will never compete with Microsoft Office. And it doesn't need to. Microsoft Office has lots of features designed for enterprise use, focused on collaboration and backwards compatibility. iWork doesn't need all that. All it needs are features for the end user which are comparable to the features found in Microsoft Office and compatibility with Microsoft Office files. It is not so hard to have it. Open source alternatives OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice have both good sets of features which are almost comparable to the ones found in Microsoft Office, and they cost just nothing. Every word processor out there which claims to be a full-feature word processor - except for Pages - has support for cross-references. Why can't Apple just implement those features in iWork?
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 07:48 AM   #44
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Apple has lost interest in iWork, but as long as Office is on the Mac it's not a big deal. I would assume since Office 11 came out sales are so slow it's not worth dedicating a large team to a new iWork project. I would like to see some improvements made to the iOS version since there is no iOS version of Office yet. There have been lots of rumors so it will be interesting to see if Office comes to iOS someday.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 03:12 PM   #45
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Apple has lost interest in iWork, but as long as Office is on the Mac it's not a big deal. I would assume since Office 11 came out sales are so slow it's not worth dedicating a large team to a new iWork project. I would like to see some improvements made to the iOS version since there is no iOS version of Office yet. There have been lots of rumors so it will be interesting to see if Office comes to iOS someday.
Well, at least IMHO, it's not a matter of selling well or not. Apple needs a credible office suite on the Mac to provide users with a good environment for getting the work done. What if Microsoft decides to stop development of Microsoft Office for Mac (as it did with Internet Explorer)?
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 03:19 PM   #46
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What if Microsoft decides to stop development of Microsoft Office for Mac (as it did with Internet Explorer)?
Unlike IE, Office for Mac makes Microsoft a heck of lot of money - there is no incentive for them to do such a thing.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 04:28 PM   #47
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Unlike IE, Office for Mac makes Microsoft a heck of lot of money - there is no incentive for them to do such a thing.
Microsoft has no monetary incentive to make Internet Explorer either for Windows or for Mac. The reason why it developed IE was to spread its own software as the most popular Internet browser in the world.

Microsoft Office for Mac makes a lot of money for Microsoft, but that is only a tiny portion of what Microsoft Office for Windows makes. Microsoft has already announced that there are no plans to release a Mac version of Office 2013; perhaps there are plans to release an Office 2014, but those plans have not yet been unveiled by Microsoft. And now Microsoft can encourage Mac users to use Office on the cloud, for which they would also have to pay.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 04:48 PM   #48
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Microsoft has already announced that there are no plans to release a Mac version of Office 2013;
That's because MS has never had the same title for their Office suites on the same platform. Note there was never an Office for Mac 2010, 2007, or 2003 or even XP. MS hasn't talked about the newest version of Office for Mac - it's on a different product release schedule. MS hasn't said anything about a new version, but that doesn't mean that it's being discontinued or anything - that would be pointless.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 04:51 PM   #49
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That's because MS has never had the same title for their Office suites on the same platform. Note there was never an Office for Mac 2010, 2007, or 2003 or even XP. MS hasn't talked about the newest version of Office for Mac - it's on a different product release schedule. MS hasn't said anything about a new version, but that doesn't mean that it's being discontinued or anything - that would be pointless.
I hope so...
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 09:15 PM   #50
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So...

Any news on a bigger iWorks update?

Edit: I mean bigger than the "now works with iCloud" and "supports Retina" things that have happened.
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