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Old Sep 4, 2012, 02:57 PM   #26
GBrooks
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Nope, still don't get it.

I'll stick with my Protools rig.
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 03:02 PM   #27
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Well, if Apogee's support for Quartet is like the support for the Duet (FireWire) it will not work properly after two OS updates. So, my advice is - never update your OS after buying Quartet OR buy your audio interface from a more serious company...
Not sure what you're talking about. My FW Duet is still going strong. The only problem I ever have is with the damn MagicJack being on the same machine (out of necessity, unfortunately).
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 04:11 PM   #28
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Why is this news? This is WAY overpriced. MOTU's 4Pre is 1/3 of the price. Hell, the 8pre is 1/2 of the price!
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 04:12 PM   #29
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Why is this news? This is WAY overpriced. MOTU's 4Pre is 1/3 of the price. Hell, the 8pre is 1/2 of the price!
And nowhere near the quality of ANYTHING Apogee makes.
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 04:34 PM   #30
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But will it blend?
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 04:57 PM   #31
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Is this a sponsored post as this is the second time its mentioned this device and it really doesn't have that much general appeal.
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 05:02 PM   #32
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Is this a sponsored post as this is the second time its mentioned this device and it really doesn't have that much general appeal.
It's in the blog section - not a news headline. The first time was about the tease.
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 05:09 PM   #33
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And nowhere near the quality of ANYTHING Apogee makes.
MOTU is pretty good, but seriously... Even Digidesign isn't that expensive, and THAT's saying something.
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 08:06 PM   #34
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And nowhere near the quality of ANYTHING Apogee makes.
Great. Another person I can sell swamp land to. How much would you like to buy?

Seriously, when it comes to "high end" audio, the sky is the limit for the amount of BS snake-oil "properties" companies can sell to people that don't know any better. Apogee is quality equipment, but it's way overpriced for what you get IMO in the areas that matter these days. Sadly, no quality of op-amp is going to save you from either USB 2.0 latency issues (unforgivable here given the price) or Apple earbuds being the playback medium of consumer choice these days OR the fact that a typical pop album has about 10dB of dynamic range on average (since the record labels believe louder = better even if it's clipping). So what is the point in buying the "best" recording gear if the end product could have been reproduced on the worst dreck out there?

Even so, typical "low end" (price-wise) amplifiers and receivers on the consumer end have improved drastically over the past decade as have speakers from companies like PSB that can make +/- 1dB frequency response a reality in speakers that cost under $1k a pair (unheard of 20+ years ago anywhere near that price). But it still takes at least a modicum of thought to find these good speakers since places like Best Buy are not the place to shop for such things and at this stage, the idea that the typical consumer is EVER going to have the kind of system on the playback chain that warrants ever increasing diminishing returns high-end equipment on the recording chain is about exactly ZERO.

There are, of course, classical labels that cater to high-end audio for recording (seeing they don't need to pay rock stars), but if classical and jazz isn't your thing you're sadly limited to a handful of pop or rock recordings that are worthy of more expensive gear (some Tori Amos and Pink Floyd recordings come to mind).

In any case, I'm afraid far more damage is done via editing and mastering on most albums than any op-amp on a cheaper input device would ever provide to a typical recording. Apogee is about the brand name reputation in "high-end" circles (snake-oil or not) more than the products, IMO. The fact they made a consumer EQ "palette" device for high-end speakers ought to tell you something about the nature of typical recordings out there. An accurate speaker should NEVER need any kind of EQ what-so-ever, but sadly the recording end is where most music gets screwed up (whether by incompetence or being ordered to by music execs that don't give a flying crap about sound quality, only perception based studies on loudness = higher sales data).
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 08:14 PM   #35
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There are so many audio interfaces which cost way more then this quartet.
Apogee is expensive but you get what you pay for. Apple isn't cheap either but clearly people see it as the best choice.

You buy pro audio gear based on how it sounds. ******* money.
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 09:45 PM   #36
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What do you mean with that? I've got a Duet and Mountain Lion (running on a late-2009 iMac) and it works just fine.
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Originally Posted by mus0r View Post
Not sure what you're talking about. My FW Duet is still going strong. The only problem I ever have is with the damn MagicJack being on the same machine (out of necessity, unfortunately).
Good on ya, but it was a real clusterf*** about a year ago where only the new USB Duet was supported and nobody at Apogee could or would say if the FireWire Duet would ever be supported. Don't believe me? Read the other comments in this this thread or do a search on "Apogee FireWire Duet Lion". The whole experience was enough to make me sell mine.

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Nope, still don't get it.

I'll stick with my Protools rig.
If you're sticking with ProTools HD, then of course you would because you got at least five figures invested in it.

If you're talking about ProTools SE or LE, the software that will only work with bundled Mbox or m-audio interface, then this Apogee hardware is in an entirely other league.

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Why is this news? This is WAY overpriced. MOTU's 4Pre is 1/3 of the price. Hell, the 8pre is 1/2 of the price!
I had the FireWire Duet, and I've still got the MOTU UltraLite mk3 hybrid (and had the non-hybrid version before that) and although the MOTU is versatile as hell, the pres on the Duet blow the MOTU out of the water for really anything mic'ed (vocals, acoustic guitar, etc.)

Do an A/B with your ears, not just your wallet.
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 09:56 PM   #37
MagnusVonMagnum
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Originally Posted by champ01 View Post
There are so many audio interfaces which cost way more then this quartet.
Apogee is expensive but you get what you pay for. Apple isn't cheap either but clearly people see it as the best choice.

You buy pro audio gear based on how it sounds. ******* money.
Audio gear shouldn't "sound" at all. It's supposed to be transparent. After a certain point, it is and people are fooling themselves with golden ear crap.
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Old Sep 5, 2012, 04:16 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by John.B View Post

If you're talking about ProTools SE or LE, the software that will only work with bundled Mbox or m-audio interface, then this Apogee hardware is in an entirely other league.



I had the FireWire Duet, and I've still got the MOTU UltraLite mk3 hybrid (and had the non-hybrid version before that) and although the MOTU is versatile as hell, the pres on the Duet blow the MOTU out of the water for really anything mic'ed (vocals, acoustic guitar, etc.)

Do an A/B with your ears, not just your wallet.
Pro Tools don't have LE anymore, and the new M-boxes are pretty solid actually. Digi003 rack is also pretty good, with good converters. The build quality is so-so though. But Pro tools works fine with almost all interfaces, including apogees. M-audio has never been good though.. I would prefer a digi003 rack or even a mbox pro interface to apogees any day. And then an artist series controller :-) as long as it's for prosumer usage of course.
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Old Sep 5, 2012, 07:44 AM   #39
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Audio gear shouldn't "sound" at all. It's supposed to be transparent. After a certain point, it is and people are fooling themselves with golden ear crap.
Let me guess. You're one of those that think if the buy a UAD plugin the got the real thing and sounds exactly the same?

Audio gear shouldn't sound at all? Are you serious?
Should I tell my clients to dump all their tube gear etc. because it doesn't sound transparent and therefor not real pro audio gear.
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Old Sep 5, 2012, 10:11 AM   #40
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For that price, go buy a M-Audio Profire 2626 for $500. Then send it to Black Lion Audio to have them mod it. BLA says it has the same chip as the Apogee Ensemble. So after the mod you've got 8 analog I/O and 16 ADAT I/O for about $1200 with the same quality converters and a better clock.
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Old Sep 5, 2012, 03:31 PM   #41
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Let me guess. You're one of those that think if the buy a UAD plugin the got the real thing and sounds exactly the same?
Why would I buy plugins that attempt to mar the sound with discolorations when I already have tons of built-in options to alter the sound with EQ, phase and other effects?

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Audio gear shouldn't sound at all? Are you serious?
It depends on what you're looking for and where it is in the chain. It should NEVER change the sound in the playback chain in a system that claims any kind of accuracy to the signal as you are then modifying what is in the recording by altering it. On the recording side, it should be accurate as possible in the standard studio chain and only modified by the artist before being input into the system if they're looking for a certain sound.

In other words, if your goal is to record a live orchestra and have it sound as real as possible, the LAST thing you'd want is a stack of tube pre-amps between the microphones and the recording gear. If you have a rock band that wants that "tube amp sound" on their guitars, it's an artistic choice, not a question of fidelity. In short, I would not want this Apogee device imparting its own colorations to the signal. That is not its job.


Quote:
Should I tell my clients to dump all their tube gear etc. because it doesn't sound transparent and therefor not real pro audio gear.
There's a difference between using something because you want to create a certain sound (e.g. tube amps create even-order distortion which sounds pleasant to the ear) and having equipment that colors the sound regardless of whether you want it or not (i.e. amplifiers in the recording chain that have nothing to do with artistic input or on the playback side where instead of recreating what the artist intended you to hear distort it by adding their own color). One example is the turn-table on the playback side. The reason some cartridges sound "warmer" than others is that they're changing the sound. Hey, if that's what you want, fine, but don't pretend it's accurate playback. It's no different fundamentally than adding a graphic equalizer on the playback side. If you want to crank up the bass or mid-range for a given album, go ahead but it's not what's on the album. Choosing speakers for a "warm" sound is the same difference.

The bottom line is that if you want to hear what's on the recording, be it the playback chain or the monitor speakers in the studio, you need ACCURATE equipment. Otherwise, you're making adjustments to adjustments and the end result on true high fidelity (as in accurate playback) equipment will be an unknown.

So no, I don't agree with studios that use cheap playback speakers because it's an "industry standard" or it gives a certain sound. That's a crock to any real engineer that wants accuracy, not marred sound. "Pro" unfortunately doesn't mean accurate and that's why there's a LOT of bad sounding albums out there (and I don't mean the artists' performance).

You might as well use plugins to alter the sound if that's what you're after since all you're really doing is changing the frequency response, harmonics, phase, etc. anyway. By all means, make it sound like you want it to for a given project, but don't tell me it's a good idea to use colored gear in the studio in general since you'll never have an accurate base point to start out with.
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Old Sep 5, 2012, 05:59 PM   #42
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I wish it lay flat, personally I'd rather have had a breakout cable than that arch, I never had a problem with breakout cables used to them, a few people moaned Apogee listened and you have this Arch - for me it's too big to travel with, I guess it's more desktop but I'd have preferred it lay flat with a breakout cable rather than this arch.

I like the design though except for the "Arch".

Apogee your stuff sounds incredible ! the designs used to be so lovely and tankish, Applelike - the Ensemble, DUET classic! but then they got ...not so pretty, i like "pretty" audio gear.

i can aggregate two plastic Duet2s for cheaper than this unit costs.

Anyway can't fault the sound quality of Apogees preamps!

There's always Sound Devices USBPRE4 (coming November I'm told).better preamps similar price point.

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Old Sep 6, 2012, 12:46 PM   #43
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Pro Tools don't have LE anymore, and the new M-boxes are pretty solid actually. Digi003 rack is also pretty good, with good converters. The build quality is so-so though. But Pro tools works fine with almost all interfaces, including apogees. M-audio has never been good though.. I would prefer a digi003 rack or even a mbox pro interface to apogees any day. And then an artist series controller :-) as long as it's for prosumer usage of course.
I was trying to point out that there are a lot of low-end audio interfaces that are still being sold with the old, hardware-locked versions of ProTools LE/SE. Those will only function with the hardware attached.
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Old Sep 6, 2012, 11:58 PM   #44
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usb2 = high latency

DOA[COLOR="#808080"]

.
Until Apple figures out how to solve its issues with the new machines and their USB3 problems with audio interfaces, it ain't goin' anywhere.

These are boxes with few inputs and no one in their niche market is going to use more than a stereo pair of outs, and the word clock, optical (and probably two of the inputs) will never get anything plugged into them. USB2 was much more awful for such simple audio when computers were half as powerful as they are today. The fact is that USB2 is a dumb interface to have on an audio interface in 2012 but this unit would not benefit from anything faster.

It's not a pro box. It's an Apple Store version of an audio interface to sell to Apple Store clientele. It specs out nicely (and the Duets sound great) but line them up in a store that sells all manufacturers and no one walks out with one of these. If the preamps sound as good as the Duet's it'll be nice, but still a terrible bang for the buck.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 01:32 PM   #45
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Not sure what you're talking about. My FW Duet is still going strong. The only problem I ever have is with the damn MagicJack being on the same machine (out of necessity, unfortunately).
Maestro 2 doesn't "see" my fw duet anymore (it did on 10.7 but not on 10.8) - so while I can play music and do all kinds of audio output-stuff just as fine as before - I can't reach any recording-related settings anymore... I've re-installed and tried various tricks to get it working but it just won't work anymore... I guess I need to contact Apogee support.
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 12:25 PM   #46
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i think this piece is great news. perfect size and capacity for the ubiquitous "professional home studio" operation, and I personally love apogee's conversion. the duet is fantastic, this is basically a larger duet with more advanced features.

and as far as the latency argument goes, in my time A/Bing I've found USB 2 to be a whole lot better than FW400 on mac. it's faster, and the drivers are better with more recent OS's.

didn't realize so many had such a bone to pick with apogee
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 12:45 PM   #47
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and as far as the latency argument goes, in my time A/Bing I've found USB 2 to be a whole lot better than FW400 on mac. it's faster, and the drivers are better with more recent OS's.
It's not the recent OSs as much as it is the recent processors. Having two or four (or more) cores "solved" the "unsolvable" USB audio interface problem where CPU cycles dedicated to i/o, etc. could starve a single core processor doing A/D conversion.
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 07:53 PM   #48
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MVM...I am guessing too many years in a heavy metal band has reduced hearing to point where can't tell difference between Apogee and Radioshack pre.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 06:29 PM   #49
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FireWire has a higher latency than usb2 for some reason they tried to explain me on lynda.com, so I see why there probably isn't a reason to use money on thunderbolt. Then again, it already costs a lot of money for a pro system, that only prosumers or small home studios are gonna use.
It needs Thunderbolt. It doesn't NEED thunderbolt, but someone needs to realize daisy chaining potential. Also, most will only have one free USB port after burning one on a retarded iLok.

http://www.avid.com/static/resources...ilyLatency.png

Allegedly it does help latency... It shows "top performing" FW being slightly better than USB2, but I'm sure it depends on the device. And PCIe/Thunderbolt "blows" em away.

This is for Avid's stupid-expensive HD system though.
Aaaand no daisy chaining, sigh.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 11:50 PM   #50
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It needs Thunderbolt. It doesn't NEED thunderbolt, but someone needs to realize daisy chaining potential. Also, most will only have one free USB port after burning one on a retarded iLok.
The iLok will work on a USB hub.
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