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Old Sep 13, 2012, 10:55 AM   #26
partyBoy
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Originally Posted by stukick View Post
Cool, so all my friends on well fare and food stamps can get in on the iPhone craze.
WTF? that made no sense at all

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Originally Posted by 1080p View Post
Really... because I could have sworn that Cricket only has LTE in 1 or 2 markets. I think only in Tucson... I heard. Either way... it is NOT as much as AT&T or Verizon. LTE is the new standard for speed. EV-DO is very much "a dirt road now."
come'on now..."i heard" doesnt count, dont always believe what you hear...
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:10 AM   #27
rnizlek
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i wish MetroPCS (my carrier) would carry it...that would be awesome
What frequencies does MetroPCS use? Are the compatible with the existing iPhone specs?
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:17 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by 1080p View Post
Using an iPhone 5 on Cricket would be like driving a Lamborghini on a bumpy dirt road.
Yes. There are trade-offs with any carrier-phone combination, and it is also market-specific as indicated on the thread (Tucson LTE)... When a carrier grows, networks get crowded and service levels drop. So popularity brings about degradation until the carrier can invest more in coverage and service. Then another carrier will announce a new network to leapfrog the competition, and the cycle begins anew.

Cricket for the most part does run their own network (they are not an MVNO like Virgin which runs I think on Sprint, they lease and operate their own towers for their own spectrum holdings which are substantial, but do have some roaming arrangements with other carriers in areas where they don't have licenses).

But investment managers and many customers know that their customer service is questionable, disconnect rates are high for a reason, and it's not only because they focus on the cash-based month-to-month customer. It is also due to decisions made by senior management investments, priorities and outsourcing, not because the on-the-line people don't care.

This deal is important to Cricket for future exit-strategy purposes, and for the halo-effect that any company receives when partnering with Apple.

Their networks are loaded, and when you wander off the LTE footprint, your beautiful iPhone 5 will be trying to find a control signal on non-LTE networks that are already overcrowded.

I have an ATT contract, but the coverage quality is not the best either, and I have been looking over the fence to VZ to decide whether it might be better there.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:18 AM   #29
partyBoy
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Originally Posted by rnizlek View Post
What frequencies does MetroPCS use? Are the compatible with the existing iPhone specs?
MetroPCS uses 4G lte which is compatible with the iphone, i guess its just a matter of time before MetroPCS gets the iphone...ill be waiting, in the mean time i do enjoy my 4G lte android from LG with a 4.3 screen
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:18 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
FYI: Sprint is feeling the pain of that bet (already).
Really? Source? I'm with Sprint and I know that they are seeing an increase in both new customers and upgrading customers, and they are on target to fulfill their commitment (in fact, they might fulfill it much sooner than anticipated).
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:25 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by tinkafoo View Post
It's all but confirmed: Apple utterly hates T-Mobile for some reason.
Either that, or T-Mobile just isn't willing to strike a deal. They are starting to re-farm their 3G network to match AT&T's, and their LTE networks will be interoperable, so they can start offering the iPhone whenever they are willing to sign a contract with Apple.

US Cellular is in the same boat. They had a chance to sell the iPhone but turned it down.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:25 AM   #32
andyx3x
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Originally Posted by usarioclave View Post
Does anyone know if Cricket will have their GSM side unlocked?
The iPhone 5 is not a world phone like the 4S is. There will not be a GSM side on the CDMA iPhone 5.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:30 AM   #33
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Really?

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Originally Posted by andyx3x View Post
The iPhone 5 is not a world phone like the 4S is. There will not be a GSM side on the CDMA iPhone 5.
I haven't seen anything about this. Where did you read this?
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:32 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by partyBoy View Post
MetroPCS uses 4G lte which is compatible with the iphone, i guess its just a matter of time before MetroPCS gets the iphone...ill be waiting, in the mean time i do enjoy my 4G lte android from LG with a 4.3 screen
Yes, but do they run LTE on a frequency that is iPhone compatible? LTE can run on any frequency a carrier wants, provided they have licenses for the spectrum. Just because they're on LTE doesn't mean they're using 700 Mhz like Verizon & AT&T. I did some digging and it seems that MetroPCS is mostly 1900/2100 but they do use 1700 Mhz in the NYC area. I think that may be why they don't have the iPhone yet - if they don't want to roll it out if it's not compatible in all of their major markets.

See here for the LTE bands: http://niviuk.free.fr/lte_band.php

Unless MetroPCS is using LTE bands 1, 3, 5, 13, or 25, the phone is not going to be compatible with their network, as I their underlying technology is CDMA and they would want to sell a phone that can fall back to that if necessary.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:32 AM   #35
andyx3x
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Originally Posted by usarioclave View Post
I haven't seen anything about this. Where did you read this?
http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/12/33...-cdma-versions
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:33 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by andyx3x View Post
The iPhone 5 is not a world phone like the 4S is. There will not be a GSM side on the CDMA iPhone 5.
That is absolutely false. See here:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html

Quoted from the page:

CDMA model A1429*: CDMA EV-DO Rev. A and Rev. B (800, 1900, 2100 MHz); UMTS/HSPA+/DC-HSDPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz); GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz); LTE (Bands 1, 3, 5, 13, 25)
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:34 AM   #37
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iPhone 5 LTE page

http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:34 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by andyx3x View Post
No, there are separate GSM and CDMA versions, but the CDMA version has GSM/WCDMA capability for use abroad. The reason for the separate versions is frequency differences. The CDMA model is actually more compatible with European LTE networks than the North American GSM model is.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:37 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by tinkafoo View Post
It's all but confirmed: Apple utterly hates T-Mobile for some reason.
It's all but confirmed: you don't know what your talking about. T-mobile uses different technology from everyone else basically. So apple isn't going to research/develop/alter their product so much just to get T-mobile. If T-mobile want's the iPhone they should get LTE.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:37 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by rnizlek View Post
No, there are separate GSM and CDMA versions, but the CDMA version has GSM/WCDMA capability for use abroad. The reason for the separate versions is frequency differences. The CDMA model is actually more compatible with European LTE networks than the North American GSM model is.
That's exactly why I was thinking of buying a Cricket iPhone 5. I travel overseas extensively, and it's essentially an unlocked LTE worldphone (except in the US). I want to know, though, if Cricket is going to keep unlocking the GSM side...and there's no way to ask Cricket, apparently.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:43 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Tiger8 View Post
No! you see Cricket, C-Spire, Virgin, even BoostMobile all lease bandwidth from Verizon and Sprint, so really with both big carriers on board, small carriers are bonuses, and ensure that Apple extends its reach.
C Spire owns and operates their own towers and networks within their home area. They do use Verizon and Sprint when outside the home area.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:43 AM   #42
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It's all but confirmed: you don't know what your talking about. T-mobile uses different technology from everyone else basically. So apple isn't going to research/develop/alter their product so much just to get T-mobile. If T-mobile want's the iPhone they should get LTE.
More specifically, they use different frequencies for the same technology. They don't even need LTE to get the iPhone, they need to reallocate their 3G (WCDMA) services from the 1700 Mhz (AWS) band to the 1900 Mhz (PCS) band. Deploying LTE would help, also, provided that they have a VoLTE implementation and they are using iPhone compatible frequencies. But what will happen first is the reallocation of 3G services (which, of course, they market as 4G, so perhaps I should say WCDMA/HSPA+).
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:46 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by rnizlek View Post
More specifically, they use different frequencies for the same technology. They don't even need LTE to get the iPhone, they need to reallocate their 3G (WCDMA) services from the 1700 Mhz (AWS) band to the 1900 Mhz (PCS) band. Deploying LTE would help, also, provided that they have a VoLTE implementation and they are using iPhone compatible frequencies. But what will happen first is the reallocation of 3G services (which, of course, they market as 4G, so perhaps I should say WCDMA/HSPA+).
They are re-farming their spectrum to the 1900 Mhz
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:46 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Tiger8 View Post
No! you see Cricket, C-Spire, Virgin, even BoostMobile all lease bandwidth from Verizon and Sprint, so really with both big carriers on board, small carriers are bonuses, and ensure that Apple extends its reach.

T-Mobile has its own technology for 3G, and will require engineer from Apple's side. But that said, they are moving their HSPA+ to the same frequencies as AT&T so you can get your own unlocked one and save a load using their 'bring your phone' plans or better yet prepaid.

T-Mobile is getting a nano-SIM mid October.

----------



Check with Apple store, but if they don't have factory unlocked one, buy an AT&T, pay full price, and they can unlock the phone in the store for you.

Careful though, it requires a nano, not micro, sim. This will delay those who want to go their own way.
From an AppleInsider post, "The hodgepodge of different LTE frequency bands used by various carriers globally has necessitated three versions of iPhone 5, with the potential for additional new models as Apple signs on other carriers."

So Apple can produce another variant if it signs on another carrier, but apparently T-Mobile USA is out of the question! Maybe T-Mo won't meet Apples demands to sell iPhone. Don't know, not privy to such info. Just know it is agonizing that this is the 6 iphone that I'll have to wave bye-bye to. But hey, at least it is only Apple's second best phone they ever made. Hey, we know Apple is going to make a revised phone next year. Heck, probably have Schiller out there saying this is the best phone ever built. So reasoning would deduce that the iPhone 5 apparently isn't the best phone that Apple COULD have come out with. That's for next year. But when next year arrives this problem will surface all over again!
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:50 AM   #45
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iPhones on T-Mobile

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Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post
So Apple can produce another variant if it signs on another carrier, but apparently T-Mobile USA is out of the question!
iPhones work fine on T-Mobile, given the limits of Edge. In some markets/areas the iPhone will hop up to the T-Mobile 3G if it's available.

T-Mobile doesn't have the iPhone because T-Mobile is unwilling to pay for the iPhone. Maybe it'll crush their network, the way that the iPhone crushed AT&T's data network.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:51 AM   #46
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They are re-farming their spectrum to the 1900 Mhz
Sorry, I probably wasn't clear about that in my post. That's what I was alluding to when I said, "But what will happen first is the reallocation of 3G services..."

I guess I didn't explicitly say it was underway, but what I meant was they need to finish this nationwide before I think they have a shot at directly offering the iPhone.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:54 AM   #47
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C Spire owns and operates their own towers and networks within their home area. They do use Verizon and Sprint when outside the home area.
From what I've read, C Spire partners with Verizon's towers outside their area but they don't use Sprint.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:56 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by usarioclave View Post
iPhones work fine on T-Mobile, given the limits of Edge. In some markets/areas the iPhone will hop up to the T-Mobile 3G if it's available.

T-Mobile doesn't have the iPhone because T-Mobile is unwilling to pay for the iPhone. Maybe it'll crush their network, the way that the iPhone crushed AT&T's data network.
I think your partly right. I think T-Mobile wants the iPhone and has alluded to this in executives' comments. That's also why they're trying to recruit unlocked iPhones - if they didn't wanted iPhones on the network, they wouldn't be mounting a campaign for them.

I do think they are worried about iPhones crushing the EDGE network, which is entirely possible. I also think Apple is not interested in marketing an iPhone that will only work on EDGE for now.

But I have no doubt that T-Mobile wants the iPhone. I just think Apple is unwilling to provide an AWS version (or what they would charge to do it is outside of what T-Mobile is willing to pay) and that once they have an operable 3G or 4G network on an iPhone compatible band, they will get the iPhone in short order.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:58 AM   #49
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Really? Source? I'm with Sprint and I know that they are seeing an increase in both new customers and upgrading customers, and they are on target to fulfill their commitment (in fact, they might fulfill it much sooner than anticipated).
OK. Here's an objective article that lays out the massive bet that Sprint is making: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...795839250.html Note the key line: Sprint has committed to buying 30.5 million iPhones over the 4-year term.

Here's a very recent article of CEO spin which includes some hard numbers: http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascit...ne-bet-is.html
Note the "great quarter" selling 1.5 million iPhones.

4 years = 16 quarters.
30.5 million units/16 quarters = 1.9 million iPhones per quarter.
1.5 million vs. 1.9 million does not seem like a "great quarter."

Here's another with good CEO spin: http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/...has_no_regrets
talking about not making a profit on the iPhone until 2015 (on a 4-year deal started in 2011 and thus completed in 2015).

Note: I reference "spin" because these are the kinds of things Sprint has to say. They have to spin a "bet the company" obligation as favorably as possible else shareholders feel the pain if it is allowed to publicly look bad... and CEO's lose their jobs over decisions that cause too much pain.

Now within the spin, there is this recurring message of this big payoff... down the road. This last one offers 2015 as the year when this bet becomes profitable. It doesn't mean it will work out like that (just the spin says it will... much like Sprint's big bet on WIMAX a few years ago).

Contrast the underlying positives against AT&T and Verizon. Is their iPhone deal such that they won't show a profit on iPhone for 3-4 years out? If it was like that, would they really be pitching "lock in" contracts for only 2 years?

But it's not really about units, it's about revenues. Note: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/08/14/...year-contract/ which implies that they are cutting price and then cutting price again soon after to try to move inventory. No surprise about cutting prices to clear out "4s" ahead of "5" but it's hard to make the necessary revenue when your "good quarter" of unit sales that falls well short of what it actually needs to be is accomplished by heavily discounting the revenues.

Of course, one might argue that it's much more about the service contract revenue than the unit sales- and it is- but for each discount on the unit, the subsidy that flows to Apple is larger (unless Apple is taking the financial hit with them- do we think that???). So, Sprint believes the bet will be profitable after the term of the bet is over on assumptions that all those Sprint iPhone users will stick with Sprint beyond the end of the (bet) term (rather than say, switching to AT&T or Verizon, or any of the cheaper contract regional or prepaid providers that will certainly be abundantly in place by 2015). Personally, I think 2015 will arrive with genuinely cheaper average contract tolls as the regionals & prepaid plans build pressure on the trio's current rates.

So what is Sprint paying Apple per unit? The Apple revenue side of the deal has been quoted at $20 billion and $15 billion. $20 billion/30.5 million units = $655.37 per unit. $15 billion/30.5 million units = $491.80 per unit. So whether it costs Sprint $491-$655 per unit, Apple is definitely getting theirs in all scenarios. Discounted handsets to try to move more units or to blow out older models just means it will take Sprint more contract revenue to mitigate the hard cost paid out to Apple... which it pays whether it can even sell it's quantity target or not.

We can buy the spin if we wish but read between the lines and/or just do the simple math. Sprint bet big on WIMAX being the "next big thing" too and had rosy revenue forecasts for how that would pay off... until it didn't.

Note: none of this is a put down to the iPhone or Apple at all. Apple will make out very, VERY well on the Sprint bet. They're on the right end of that bet. They got a third party partner to commit to a HUGE volume of units whether that third party can sell all of them or not. My original post was about why T-mobile doesn't have the iPhone (perhaps because they don't want to drink from that same precarious stall?).

All that said, you are right that they are seeing sales of iPhones and increases in subscribers attached to the iPhones they sell. As to the "in fact" part, unless you work at Sprint and are privy to the truth instead of the spin, it might be better to change that to "I believe" or similar.

Last edited by HobeSoundDarryl; Sep 13, 2012 at 12:17 PM.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:59 AM   #50
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Either that, or T-Mobile just isn't willing to strike a deal. They are starting to re-farm their 3G network to match AT&T's, and their LTE networks will be interoperable, so they can start offering the iPhone whenever they are willing to sign a contract with Apple.

US Cellular is in the same boat. They had a chance to sell the iPhone but turned it down.
US Cellular turned down the 4s because they had a requirement of LTE support. Now that Apple has LTE Support they still won't. King Street Wireless (the backend LTE Support for US Cellular) has 700mhz licensing it's not the same that is supported by the device.

Per Apple: http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/ the GSM model supports band 17 while the CDMA model support band 13. King Street Wireless uses band 12 http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/...nds/2012-06-05 of the lower A block.

On the plus for my area Cellcom is getting the device on the 28th. Locally it's a much value with them than Verizon which when they changed their plan structures months back just shot themselves in the foot.
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