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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:03 AM   #51
Diode
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkafoo View Post
It's all but confirmed: Apple utterly hates T-Mobile for some reason.
I'm sure if the regional carriers were using technology incompatible with the majors then they would be left in the dark too. I'm also willing to bet that T-Mobile was unwilling to shell out the cash for Apple to make a model exclusively for them.

I suspect when T-Mobile completes the refarm and begins launching LTE - the iphone 5S/6 will be on there as well.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:04 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
OK. Here's an objective article that lays out the massive bet that Sprint is making: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...795839250.html Note the key line: Sprint has committed to buying 30.5 million iPhones over the 4-year term.

Here's a very recent article of CEO spin which includes some hard numbers: http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascit...ne-bet-is.html
Note the "great quarter" selling 1.5 million iPhones.

4 years = 16 quarters.
30.5 million units/16 quarters = 1.9 million iPhones per quarter.
1.5 million vs. 1.9 million does not seem like a "great quarter."

Here's another with good CEO spin: http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/...has_no_regrets
talking about not making a profit on the iPhone until 2015 (on a 4-year deal started in 2011 and thus completed in 2015).

Note: I reference "spin" because these are the kinds of things Sprint has to say. They have to spin a "bet the company" obligation as favorably as possible else shareholders feel the pain if it is allowed to publicly look bad... and CEO's lose their jobs over decisions that cause too much pain.

Now within the spin, there is this recurring message of this big payoff... down the road. This last one offers 2015 as the year when this becomes profitable. It doesn't mean it will work out like that (just the spin says it will... much like Sprint's big bet on WIMAX a few years ago).

Contrast the underlying positives against AT&T and Verizon. Is their iPhone deal such that they won't show a profit on iPhone for 3-4 years out?

But it's not really about units, it's about revenues. Note: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/08/14/...year-contract/ which implies that they are cutting price and then cutting price again soon after to try to move inventory. No surprise about cutting prices to clear out "4s" ahead of "5" but it's hard to make the necessary revenue when your "good quarter" of unit sales that falls well short of what it actually needs to be is accomplished by heavily discounting the revenues.

Of course, one might argue that it's much more about the service contract revenue than the unit sales- and it is- but for each discount on the unit, the subsidy that flows to Apple is larger (unless Apple is taking the financial hit with them- do we think that???). So, Sprint believes it the bet will be profitable after the term of the bet is over on assumptions that all those Sprint iPhone users will stick with Sprint beyond the end of the (bet) term (rather than say, switching to AT&T or Verizon, or any of the cheaper contract regional or prepaid providers that will certainly be abundantly in place by 2015).

We can buy the spin if we wish but read between the lines and/or just do the simple math. Sprint bet big on WIMAX being the "next big thing" too and had rosy revenue forecasts for how that would pay off... until it didn't.

Note: it's not a put down to the iPhone or Apple at all. Apple will make out very very well on the Sprint bet. They're on the right end of that bet. They got a third party partner to commit to a HUGE volume of units whether that third party can sell all of them or not. My original post was about why T-mobile doesn't have the iPhone (perhaps because they don't want to drink from that same precarious stall?).

I actually think Sprint will have some better iPhone sales in 2013 just due to their LTE finally getting rolled out along with unlimited data. Sprint will start to appeal to more due to LTE speeds (their 3g clearly has issues in certain areas due to congestion). I wouldn't be surprised once T-mobile finishes their refarming that we'll see the next iPhone be carried by them.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:06 AM   #53
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credo

common, credo, you're turn here. they run off sprint's network. so what's the issue?
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:24 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by howyoudoin View Post
I actually think Sprint will have some better iPhone sales in 2013 just due to their LTE finally getting rolled out along with unlimited data. Sprint will start to appeal to more due to LTE speeds (their 3g clearly has issues in certain areas due to congestion). I wouldn't be surprised once T-mobile finishes their refarming that we'll see the next iPhone be carried by them.
Don't you think though that even by 2013, rates from cheaper players using the Sprint network- like say Verizon Mobile- will pressure Sprint's (and AT&Ts & Verizon's) monthly takes around the "as is" levels now? That seems likely to only build into 2014 and 2015 as more and more alternatives come it the contract-end of the market.

The CEO spin likely assumes keeping the existing tolls around where they are now. However, at the same time, all these much cheaper (contract) options are getting the exact same phone. I would think that competitive pressure will at long last begin to drive down the average toll paid for the service. If so, projections based on the big 3's rates today may not pan out.

It's just speculation of course and this is just one person's take: if I was going with iPhone on the Sprint network, I'd probably jump on Virgin Mobile's iPhone deal (get the exact same network and the iPhone). Sure, the phone will cost more up front but the total cost would be a lot less over the term. Yes, the sheep will be swayed by the "better deal" on the phone but it doesn't take a huge slice of those sheep waking up to bring down the average contract subscription rate paid.

In such a scenario, it is a way for Sprint to move the units to which they've obligated themselves, but not actually profit on the bet.

Last edited by HobeSoundDarryl; Sep 13, 2012 at 11:37 AM.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:25 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by rnizlek View Post
But I have no doubt that T-Mobile wants the iPhone. I just think Apple is unwilling to provide an AWS version (or what they would charge to do it is outside of what T-Mobile is willing to pay) and that once they have an operable 3G or 4G network on an iPhone compatible band, they will get the iPhone in short order.
One of the reasons T-Mobile tried to sell itself to AT&T was that the parent company was unwilling to spend money building out an LTE/4G infrastructure. I'm sure that hobbled the infrastructure efforts of T-Mobile, leading to the lack of iPhone.

I suspect the plan was to go from EDGE to LTE directly and skip 3G - but after the bus left the station TMO's parent said "we can't afford it anymore, sorry." That would leave them in the lurch that they are today. It would also explain the weird silent 3G rollouts that TMo is doing.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:39 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by usarioclave View Post
One of the reasons T-Mobile tried to sell itself to AT&T was that the parent company was unwilling to spend money building out an LTE/4G infrastructure. I'm sure that hobbled the infrastructure efforts of T-Mobile, leading to the lack of iPhone.

I suspect the plan was to go from EDGE to LTE directly and skip 3G - but after the bus left the station TMO's parent said "we can't afford it anymore, sorry." That would leave them in the lurch that they are today. It would also explain the weird silent 3G rollouts that TMo is doing.
Not sure about what you posted there but I am under the impression that the chipset with the last few iPhones was capable of working in the T-mobile bands- Apple just chose to not make those frequencies work. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here but I think I've seen a number of posts & sources claiming this to be true including that the same radio used in competing phones worked on T-mobile.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:44 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post
From an AppleInsider post, "The hodgepodge of different LTE frequency bands used by various carriers globally has necessitated three versions of iPhone 5, with the potential for additional new models as Apple signs on other carriers."

So Apple can produce another variant if it signs on another carrier, but apparently T-Mobile USA is out of the question! Maybe T-Mo won't meet Apples demands to sell iPhone. Don't know, not privy to such info. Just know it is agonizing that this is the 6 iphone that I'll have to wave bye-bye to. But hey, at least it is only Apple's second best phone they ever made. Hey, we know Apple is going to make a revised phone next year. Heck, probably have Schiller out there saying this is the best phone ever built. So reasoning would deduce that the iPhone 5 apparently isn't the best phone that Apple COULD have come out with. That's for next year. But when next year arrives this problem will surface all over again!
/
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Thanks for this article! Eye opening. I did not know about the 3 versions.

That said though, it seems the only difference between them is what LTE band each one of them operate on, so by theory any unlocked phone should be able to take advantage of T-Mobile's HSPA+ (or 2G :-( ) network. T-Mo does not have LTE to begin with, and frankly, not the end of the world for me.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:52 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by khovland92 View Post
you don't know what your talking about. T-mobile uses different technology from everyone else basically.
Actually, you don't know what YOU are talking about.

T-Mobile uses the same GSM & HSPA+ technology that AT&T does.

Due to USA frequency allocation politics, T-Mobile wasn't able to use standard frequencies for data.

This has recently changed and T-Mobile has been turning on 1900MHz support on their towers and many markets already support full data on the iPhone.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:53 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by usarioclave View Post
One of the reasons T-Mobile tried to sell itself to AT&T was that the parent company was unwilling to spend money building out an LTE/4G infrastructure. I'm sure that hobbled the infrastructure efforts of T-Mobile, leading to the lack of iPhone.

I suspect the plan was to go from EDGE to LTE directly and skip 3G - but after the bus left the station TMO's parent said "we can't afford it anymore, sorry." That would leave them in the lurch that they are today. It would also explain the weird silent 3G rollouts that TMo is doing.
T-Mobile USA have had 3G running for a long time, it's just that the phones had to have a different antenna frequency to pick it up (1700Mhz) - thus negating the iPhone having 3G on T-Mob. Yes, I seem to recall that the Qualcomm chip in the first Verizon CDMA iPhone did have that frequency on it, but Apple chode not to enable it.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:54 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
Not sure about what you posted there but I am under the impression that the chipset with the last few iPhones was capable of working in the T-mobile bands- Apple just chose to not make those frequencies work. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here but I think I've seen a number of posts & sources claiming this to be true including that the same radio used in competing phones worked on T-mobile.
The radio was compatible with T-Mobile's bands BUT they could not add T-Mobile's frequencies to the existing chipset without removing other frequencies. And I'm not sure what they'd need to do antenna-wise. So Apple would still have to produce a separate phone for T-Mobile, albiet with the same chipset, just one that is configured for T-Mobile's frequencies.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 12:05 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by mrholder View Post
Awesome! I will be getting my first iPhone through C Spire. Hopefully I won't have to change to a capped plan. I've had an unlimited plan with them for a few years, but now they're rolling out LTE in the major cities around here. Heard a rumor that any upgraders will have to choose a new plan.
I am switching from AT&T to C Spire with this iPhone. They still have numerous unlimited data plans, though they distinguish between "unlimited" and "unlimited+unlimited video streaming" (you have to pay 20 bucks more for unlimited streaming).

And FYI, if you go to cspire.com right now, their 64GB iPhone 4Ss are $149.99, cheaper than the 32gb option and the same as 16GB, for some reason. I did a double-take; who knows whether it is a mistake, or whether they'll honor it?
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 12:15 PM   #62
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And FYI, if you go to cspire.com right now, their 64GB iPhone 4Ss are $149.99, cheaper than the 32gb option and the same as 16GB, for some reason. I did a double-take; who knows whether it is a mistake, or whether they'll honor it?
Hmm... that is interesting. I don't know anything about C-spire though. Would be afraid to order one without hearing from other customers.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 12:31 PM   #63
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Hmm... that is interesting. I don't know anything about C-spire though. Would be afraid to order one without hearing from other customers.
I'd trust them; the worse that I'd expect to happen is that they'd cancel my order. My family has been their customers for many years, no problems.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 12:41 PM   #64
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So hopefully Virgin Mobile will get it to then right? I just want them to drop there iphone 4s price down so I can buy that really
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 12:51 PM   #65
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I expect Virgin Mobile to have it soon too. Cspire is odd in offering a fairly low cost for the phone and a pay-as-you-go for the service. Virgin probably won't do that (pay up for the phone, pay-as-you-go for the service). However, Cspire is regional while Virgin is basically Sprint by another name (in terms of "in" network reach).
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 12:56 PM   #66
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From what I've read, C Spire partners with Verizon's towers outside their area but they don't use Sprint.
I'm a CSpire customer, and when I asked, they wouldn't really say who they roamed with. CSpire has had fights and lawsuits with AT&T and their suppliers that accuse them of blocking the smaller carriers from the best handsets, and handset components. They have had fights with Verizon over 4G spectrum, and I thought they had filed suit against them, but I can't find it. Here is a fairly technical article discussing the spectrum issues.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 02:13 PM   #67
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A little surprised to see that Virgin Mobile USA is not on this list. You'd think they'd want to be on par with Cricket.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 02:47 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by quaternio View Post
I am switching from AT&T to C Spire with this iPhone. They still have numerous unlimited data plans, though they distinguish between "unlimited" and "unlimited+unlimited video streaming" (you have to pay 20 bucks more for unlimited streaming).

And FYI, if you go to cspire.com right now, their 64GB iPhone 4Ss are $149.99, cheaper than the 32gb option and the same as 16GB, for some reason. I did a double-take; who knows whether it is a mistake, or whether they'll honor it?
It's no mistake. I thought about getting that one, but wanted to hold off for the 5. I bet they are selling the crap out of them. Yeah, I've been looking at the plans, and hope they don't make me choose a new one. I have two phones with unlimited eveything plans (purchased 2 years ago before they started charging more for streaming). I hope you don't need the additional streaming for facetime over cellular, but who knows. If so, I'll just facetime over wifi, if at all.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 04:06 PM   #69
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I'm a CSpire customer, and when I asked, they wouldn't really say who they roamed with. CSpire has had fights and lawsuits with AT&T and their suppliers that accuse them of blocking the smaller carriers from the best handsets, and handset components. They have had fights with Verizon over 4G spectrum, and I thought they had filed suit against them, but I can't find it. Here is a fairly technical article discussing the spectrum issues.
Yep, both my sisters and their families are with C Spire. We've been with AT&T for ages, but with no LTE service I'm gone. I'm just trying to figure out if their LTE service will be better in the greater Jackson area than going with Verizon. I tried an iPad LTE service with Verizon a few months ago and didn't get the service I wanted, but the LTE service was new. In Oxford, Verizon's LTE service is BLAZING fast.

I want/need a new phone, but I can't figure out who will give me the best service for the life of me.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 04:32 PM   #70
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Waiting for Virgin

I too am waiting to hear if Virgin will get it along with all the regional carriers. I decided not to get the 4S when Virgin got it in the summer, in hopes that I could get the 5 through them in fall. So I'm really hoping. Since I've waiting for my birthday iMac since February, I'm hoping that I can get rid of my crummy Android phone sooner rather than later. If they don't get it now, I'll probably still wait, but we'll see.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 07:47 PM   #71
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They're compatible with the cdma bands, but someone more knowledgeable will have to talk lte.
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What frequencies does MetroPCS use? Are the compatible with the existing iPhone specs?
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 07:48 PM   #72
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Virgin Mobile got the iPhone 4S the same week as Cricket, so hopefully they do something similar with the 5!
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 08:24 PM   #73
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T-Mobile....

I am on TMo and want the iPhone, but I'm not willing to switch to any of the other carriers. ATT service sucks in Houston and too expensive. Sprint has a good price but no LTE in Houston yet. And Verizon and Sprint can't do simultaneous Voice and Data. So Apple.... COME ON! You are shutting out customers that would love to buy your device. Is it really that big of a deal to support one more band?
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 10:35 PM   #74
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Yep, both my sisters and their families are with C Spire. We've been with AT&T for ages, but with no LTE service I'm gone. I'm just trying to figure out if their LTE service will be better in the greater Jackson area than going with Verizon. I tried an iPad LTE service with Verizon a few months ago and didn't get the service I wanted, but the LTE service was new. In Oxford, Verizon's LTE service is BLAZING fast.

I want/need a new phone, but I can't figure out who will give me the best service for the life of me.
I'm in the same situation. My contract with CSpire has been up for a few months, but I am getting tired of waiting on them to get the Galaxy SIII. The problem is that CSpire's prices are still better. I get a 15% discount with Verizon through my employer, and their price for a 4GB plan was still more expensive than CSpire, even with the 15% discount.
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 12:55 AM   #75
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I'm in the same situation. My contract with CSpire has been up for a few months, but I am getting tired of waiting on them to get the Galaxy SIII. The problem is that CSpire's prices are still better. I get a 15% discount with Verizon through my employer, and their price for a 4GB plan was still more expensive than CSpire, even with the 15% discount.
Steve, do you know anything about CSpire throttling their unlimited video streaming service? I read some complaints about on their site and I don't want to walk into that kind of drama. I'll pay for what I'll use, no problem, but don't tell me it's unlimited and then throttle it.
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