Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Archive > Archives of Old Posts > Macintosh Computers

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 15, 2002, 09:11 PM   #1
friendlyghost
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Penless PDA

Just wanted to throw this out there:
If and when Apple finally graces us with their take on the PDA or PDA\Cell combo, I honestly hope that it is NOT pen based.

I carried around a Philips Nino based on Windows CE and then had an ipaq for a couple years. I enjoyed them both, but have always found that using the pen interface an awkward experience at best. Handwriting recognition is still hilarious ("Eat up Martha") and even if you learn one of the many Grafitti-like input methods, it's still far too slow.

It's always disappointing to me to see fan art of possible future PDAs are basically tiny slates with a pen. I truly hope that isn't what they release.

As a result, it's my hope that they adopt the mini keyboards that we see on some products. If anyone could do it right it would be apple.

I look at the danger hiptop, and really could see apple do a much smarter version of this with a matching bluetooth earpiece.

Just thinking.
__________________
Incidentally,
friendlyghost
friendlyghost is offline   0
Old Nov 15, 2002, 09:28 PM   #2
Timothy
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Try the Newton...

If your experience with pen-based computing is with Grafiti and the Palm OS...I agree with you, it was not a useful system.

Did you ever try the Newton's latest release? It had gotten pretty good; I was able to write about 35 words a minute without errors. It was more than adequte, it was extremely efficient.

So, when Apple finally releases their next iteration of a PDA, I am very hopeful that it WILL be pen-based. If it is at least as good as the Newton was, then I will be very happy with it...
__________________
Simplify. Edit. iPad.
Timothy is offline   0
Old Nov 15, 2002, 10:23 PM   #3
Cappy
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: May 2002
I'll take graffitti over a mini-keyboard any day. Those wanting a keyboard over something like graffitti just need to practice more with it. The advantage of a mini-keyboard is accuracy for the clumsy not speed.

*If* Apple ever does release some sort of device that uses handwriting recognition(and I think they will at some point...could be 20 yrs from now), I think they'll do it when they feel their handwriting system really works for the average guy/gal. Graffitti isn't that system currently.
__________________
<insert clever, witty saying here>
<insert some certification here to sound superior>
<insert hardware owned here to sound, well, uh cool>
Cappy is offline   0
Old Nov 15, 2002, 10:36 PM   #4
Timothy
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Again...

Apple already owns technology that is superior to grafiti.
__________________
Simplify. Edit. iPad.
Timothy is offline   0
Old Nov 16, 2002, 08:43 AM   #5
xelterran
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Send a message via AIM to xelterran
Quote:
Apple already owns technology that is superior to grafiti.


ThinkPad...
xelterran is offline   0
Old Nov 16, 2002, 09:43 AM   #6
gambit
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Turkey
Errr.....

Anyone up for the Treo!
Well... you said penless...
gambit is offline   0
Old Nov 16, 2002, 10:10 AM   #7
iMac
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Send a message via AIM to iMac
Re: Try the Newton...

Quote:
Originally posted by Timothy
If your experience with pen-based computing is with Grafiti and the Palm OS...I agree with you, it was not a useful system.

Did you ever try the Newton's latest release? It had gotten pretty good; I was able to write about 35 words a minute without errors. It was more than adequte, it was extremely efficient.

So, when Apple finally releases their next iteration of a PDA, I am very hopeful that it WILL be pen-based. If it is at least as good as the Newton was, then I will be very happy with it...
Either you are truly fast, or you are lying through your teeth (i think it's the first one)! My newton is so annoying, it never gets the letters right EVER! it's also, really slow, b/c u have to go back and correct it five hundred tiems.
iMac is offline   0
Old Nov 16, 2002, 10:23 AM   #8
Timothy
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
No lying here...

I tested this after I had owned my Newton for about a year. I had gotten pretty good with it, and just wanted to see how good. For some reason, my handwriting style and the Newton seemed to work well together; I think I learned to write to the Newton as well, which basically means writing letters as we were originally taught to write them.

I had hoped, when I bought my palm-based Handspring Visor that I'd be able to get close to this as well...it never materialized. I couldn't even write a full paragraph of information on that tiny and lousy screen. Writing letter-at-a-time instead of word-at-a-time like on the Newton proved to be too slow and cumbersome. Being forced to write in a little window was frustrating as well.

Like I say, the Palm-based PDA's are mere toys, not delivering the promised functionality that the Newton truly did deliver.
__________________
Simplify. Edit. iPad.
Timothy is offline   0
Old Nov 17, 2002, 12:33 AM   #9
Gus
macrumors 65816
 
Gus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Minnesota
Send a message via AIM to Gus
Newton

He is not lying. The Newton OS 2.1 was fantastic. I wrote in cursive all the time on mine, and it was at least 95% accurate. When I did write in printing style, then it was even better. I didn't have to wait for the "training" period either. Inkwell is based on the old Newton OS HW recognition, and if Apple chose to make a new PDA, I'm sure that it would be great.

HOWEVER, I do agree that pen-based computing has had its chance, and it is just is not what I want. On the same token, I don't want a keyboard either. I remember reading an editorial in MacWorld (I think...) about how disappointed the author was that almost 20 years after the Personal Computer has taken hold, that we still rely on 100+ year-old technology--the keyboard. I wish someone could figure out voice-recognition SW that is practical and works. There will be mistakes, but remember, no keybardist goes without the occasional mistake either, and we've had all of this time to practice.

Gus
__________________
Shop smart, shop S-Mart.
Gus is offline   0
Old Nov 17, 2002, 06:55 AM   #10
davidc2182
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sin City
 
Talking i got me an idea!!

OK pen input is out unless they use the newton's technology, well apple should license the tech for web tablets and tablet peecees and make it mandatory that whenever one of those computer starts up there is a big flippin apple logo on the screen so everyone knows its apples genius and no microsloth. anyway, next topic is voice recognition, umm ok yeah sure again apple has it pretty down packed on voice recognition for general operation of a system, at my local applestore some guy demonstrated how he used an emac with the built in mic meanwhile there was a ton of background noise in the room, and it rocked! but its still going to be a ways away to figure out how to type with ones voice accurately especially when on the move with wind hitting the mic or the airplane engine humming about. next is keyboard, yeah ok its old but its tried and true unless its tiny! (treo=crap) ok next is one of my 2 ideas, put an optical sensor into the PDA or tablet computer that tracks your eye movements as you look at letters on a virtual keyboard and types it for you, they already have an eye tracking mouse! and finally my idea that i think will be the next iteration of input for a pda, recently there was a virtual keyboard developed that projected a keyboard layout onto any surface from a device the size of a film roll, and it tracked your typing and is very accurate, now couple that with a bluetooth connection to your device and bingo accurate and compact data entry for any type of computing device. Or we could go johnny mnuemonic on people and get a pair of RF gloves and a sensor mat on your lap that tracks movements of the gloves to type, but to me thats annoying! what do you think?
__________________
http://www.x10n.com

"You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because you're all the same."
davidc2182 is offline   0
Old Nov 17, 2002, 07:37 AM   #11
lmasanti
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Re: Newton

Quote:
Originally posted by Gus
the author was that almost 20 years after the Personal Computer has taken hold, that we still rely on 100+ year-old technology--the keyboard.
Remeber that "behind" the keyboard we still rely on a circa 100.000 years old "technology": the man.
lmasanti is offline   0
Old Nov 17, 2002, 09:34 AM   #12
Timothy
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
I like the pen...

I want pen input. I like it. I don't want voice recognition; there are very few times when I want to speak my thoughts out loud. If I'm sitting in a restaurant, on a plane, on the street...I don't want to be talking out loud for everyone to hear. And, that is the main drawback of voice recognition. Additionally, I don't think as clearly when I talk as I do when I write; and if I have to add to that a worry that I am sounding like a dork to the guy next to me, then my thought process will be hindered that much more.

In the end, I still think pen input is the best solution for ultra-portable computing.
__________________
Simplify. Edit. iPad.
Timothy is offline   0
Old Nov 17, 2002, 11:03 AM   #13
cubist
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Muncie, Indiana
Send a message via AIM to cubist
I like the recognition on my Newton 2100...

... now that I have Graffiti for it. There are other recognizers for the Palm, such as Jot, but for some reason they have not caught on.

There could be a small chord keyboard you hold and operate in one hand. But it will be hard to teach people how to use it.

If the screen is big enough - I think the Newton's is the ideal size; tablet PCs are too big and Palms are too small - why can't we just write with our finger?
cubist is offline   0
Old Nov 18, 2002, 12:14 AM   #14
rainman::|:|
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: iowa
Send a message via Yahoo to rainman::|:|
The NY Times did a story a while back about a one-handed portable keyboard, it strapped into your palm and used a series of "chords" to type. The guy said it's pretty fast... sorry i cant post a link...

I'd like to see something interesting like that drive a PDA/subportable... i'm surprised wearable equipment has taken this long to take off...


pnw
rainman::|:| is offline   0


 
MacRumors Forums > Archive > Archives of Old Posts > Macintosh Computers

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
iPhone 5 reminds me of how the old Sony PDA were aaronchow iPhone 1 Sep 13, 2012 09:44 AM
Bluetooth-PDA-sync - What Is It? macNewbie02 MacBook Pro 0 Jul 30, 2012 03:09 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:46 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC