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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:29 PM   #76
lazard
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The majority aren't saying that the iPhone 5 is HD, just that HD resolution wouldn't make a difference on such a small screen. Do you disagree?
I agree. It's pointless to watch videos on a 4" screen therefore I guess HD is not necessary.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:32 PM   #77
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Not if they switch to IGZO.

IGZO can display a static image (like the iPhone homescreen) without using any power, as it doesn't have to constantly refresh like other displays. In other words it would use power to push the image once, then that's it until those pixels change again.

It's supposed to be highly sensitive to touch and able to pack in really high resolutions as well.
That's wrong. IGZO displays still use power to show anything because you obviously need pixels emitting light to see anything. IGZO displays are not E-Ink displays, which have true zero power consumption for static display. IGZO displays operate like any normal LCD display panel. The IGZO part is actually just referring to the type of semi-conductor material used for creating part of the display.

From http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indium_gallium_zinc_oxide

" Indium gallium zinc oxide, IGZO is a semiconducting material, jointly developed by Sharp Corporation and Semiconductor Energy Laboratories, which can be used as the channel for a transparent thin-film transistor. It replaces amorphous silicon for the active layer of an LCD screen, and, with a forty times higher electron mobility than amorphous silicon, it allows either smaller pixels (for screen resolutions higher than HDTV) or much higher reaction speed for a screen. [1]"
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:33 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by lazard View Post
I agree. It's pointless to watch videos on a 4" screen therefore I guess HD is not necessary.
Not the point I was making, but fair enough

I actually find any mobile a bit too small to watch videos on, even the S3.

iPad I can just about manage.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:35 PM   #79
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The funny part is, the iPhone 5 has HIGHER PPI than the S3... fandroids
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:37 PM   #80
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That's wrong. IGZO displays still use power to show anything because you obviously need pixels emitting light to see anything. IGZO displays are not E-Ink displays, which have true zero power consumption for static display. IGZO displays operate like any normal LCD display panel. The IGZO part is actually just referring to the type of semi-conductor material used for creating part of the display.

From http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiu...ium_zinc_oxide

" Indium gallium zinc oxide, IGZO is a semiconducting material, jointly developed by Sharp Corporation and Semiconductor Energy Laboratories, which can be used as the channel for a transparent thin-film transistor. It replaces amorphous silicon for the active layer of an LCD screen, and, with a forty times higher electron mobility than amorphous silicon, it allows either smaller pixels (for screen resolutions higher than HDTV) or much higher reaction speed for a screen. [1]"
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/CES...tor,20318.html

"Sharp during CES 2013 was telling visitors to "brace themselves", as the company was showcasing the very first IGZO panel slated for North America. IGZO is a different technology than what's used in panels today, as it's capable of displaying a static image without the need to constantly refresh, thus saving power and battery life."

I was probably wrong about it using no power to keep pixels illuminated, that was just a guess on my part, but it doesn't operate the same way as other LCDs because it doesn't need to keep refreshing to display static images.

Later on it says:

"Sharp also had on display several smartphones using the IGZO technology. As previously stated, the standard display is constantly refreshing the screen, thus smartphone batteries typically last only a day. But with IGZO, static images such as the stationary home screen aren't refreshed, thus extending the battery to around two days."

It's clearly some kind of beautiful magic
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:39 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by matttye View Post
The majority aren't saying that the iPhone 5 is HD, just that HD resolution wouldn't make a difference on such a small screen. Do you disagree?
Disagree. This is classic Apple loyalist denial when they don't have something the competition has. You are missing 200,000 pixels on the iPhone 5, which causes display artifacts on 720p video. This is a significant amount of missing pixels.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:41 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by matttye View Post
Not if they switch to IGZO.

IGZO can display a static image (like the iPhone homescreen) without using any power, as it doesn't have to constantly refresh like other displays. In other words it would use power to push the image once, then that's it until those pixels change again.

It's supposed to be highly sensitive to touch and able to pack in really high resolutions as well.
Your forgetting the fact that most of the power draw from lcd's is it backlight, not the pixels themselves.

Also the cpu and gpu have to render whats on the screen.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:42 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by matttye View Post
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/CES...tor,20318.html

"Sharp during CES 2013 was telling visitors to "brace themselves", as the company was showcasing the very first IGZO panel slated for North America. IGZO is a different technology than what's used in panels today, as it's capable of displaying a static image without the need to constantly refresh, thus saving power and battery life."

I was probably wrong about it using no power to keep pixels illuminated, that was just a guess on my part, but it doesn't operate the same way as other LCDs because it doesn't need to keep refreshing to display static images.

Later on it says:

"Sharp also had on display several smartphones using the IGZO technology. As previously stated, the standard display is constantly refreshing the screen, thus smartphone batteries typically last only a day. But with IGZO, static images such as the stationary home screen aren't refreshed, thus extending the battery to around two days."

It's clearly some kind of beautiful magic
Saving power by minimizing the refreshing of the IGZO based transitors is totally different from saying that IGZO displays use no power to display static images. You are wrong.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:43 PM   #84
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Disagree. This is classic Apple loyalist denial when they don't have something the competition has. You are missing 200,000 pixels on the iPhone 5, which causes display artifacts on 720p video. This is a significant amount of missing pixels.
If you say so

Maybe I just need new glasses, but I don't see artefacts when I'm watching videos.

----------

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Originally Posted by SomeDudeAsking View Post
Saving power by minimizing the refreshing of the IGZO based transitors is totally different from saying that IGZO displays use no power to display static images. You are wrong.
I already said I was probably wrong about that.

The fact remains it uses a lot less power.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:55 PM   #85
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Your forgetting the fact that most of the power draw from lcd's is it backlight, not the pixels themselves.

Also the cpu and gpu have to render whats on the screen.
http://9to5mac.com/2012/10/17/sharp-...les-mini-ipad/

Sharp claims that a tablet they are creating achieves 2.5x the battery life simply by using an IGZO display instead of another technology.

http://www.sharpusa.com/AboutSharp/N...theFuture.aspx

"Ultra low power consumption: IGZO can maintain the onscreen data for a certain period of time without refreshing the data, even when the current is off. This helps cut back the power consumption to achieve longer battery life for mobile displays."

This means that an image is pushed to the display, then the power can be shut off completely for an undisclosed period of time and it will still display the image.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:57 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matttye View Post
http://9to5mac.com/2012/10/17/sharp-...les-mini-ipad/

Sharp claims that a tablet they are creating achieves 2.5x the battery life simply by using an IGZO display instead of another technology.

http://www.sharpusa.com/AboutSharp/N...theFuture.aspx

"Ultra low power consumption: IGZO can maintain the onscreen data for a certain period of time without refreshing the data, even when the current is off. This helps cut back the power consumption to achieve longer battery life for mobile displays."

This means that an image is pushed to the display, then the power can be shut off completely for an undisclosed period of time and it will still display the image.
I don't think you get the physics of light emission and the conservation of energy. Just stop. You make my brain hurt.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 01:05 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matttye View Post
http://9to5mac.com/2012/10/17/sharp-...les-mini-ipad/

Sharp claims that a tablet they are creating achieves 2.5x the battery life simply by using an IGZO display instead of another technology.

http://www.sharpusa.com/AboutSharp/N...theFuture.aspx

"Ultra low power consumption: IGZO can maintain the onscreen data for a certain period of time without refreshing the data, even when the current is off. This helps cut back the power consumption to achieve longer battery life for mobile displays."

This means that an image is pushed to the display, then the power can be shut off completely for an undisclosed period of time and it will still display the image.
Yes, but not the backlight. IGZO transistors do not create their own light like OLEDs. A backlight is still required. Turn the backlight off and you'll see nothing (though the pixels on the display will still be "on").

Yes, it's much more power efficient than traditional LED displays, but it's not what you're thinking.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 01:09 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by SomeDudeAsking View Post
I don't think you get the physics of light emission and the conservation of energy. Just stop. You make my brain hurt.
Perhaps you could explain instead of being an *******?

"even when the current is off" appears to indicate that it can continue to display when there is no power supply to a layman like me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xraydoc View Post
Yes, but not the backlight. IGZO transistors do not create their own light like OLEDs. A backlight is still required. Turn the backlight off and you'll see nothing (though the pixels on the display will still be "on").

Yes, it's much more power efficient than traditional LED displays, but it's not what you're thinking.
Thanks.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 01:16 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by SomeDudeAsking View Post
You are wrong, there is a major difference. The iPhone 5 is only 1136x640 = 727,040 pixels. The bare minimum to be considered HD is 1280x720 =921,600 pixels. This means that the iPhone 5 is missing 194,560 pixels, far short of being HD. This means that on the iPhone 5, you get display artifacts when you watch 720p HD videos since it can't display it at the correct resolution.
I wouldn't say there's a practical impact on a screen that small. Heck, I don't think you can tell the difference between SD video and HD video on a screen that's 4". HOWEVER, the fact remains that it's not HD. HD has a definition, 1280x720p -OR- 1920x1080i, and that definition usually includes 5.1 surround sound (although "HD resolution" or an "HD screen" doesn't need the sound component), and the iPhone doesn't meet that definition. Plain and simple. HD was a set of standards made for ATSC-8VSB and ATSC-QAM video distribution, and has little to do with phone screens, other than hitting an arbitrary definition for marketing reasons.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 01:54 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matttye View Post
http://9to5mac.com/2012/10/17/sharp-...les-mini-ipad/

Sharp claims that a tablet they are creating achieves 2.5x the battery life simply by using an IGZO display instead of another technology.

http://www.sharpusa.com/AboutSharp/N...theFuture.aspx

"Ultra low power consumption: IGZO can maintain the onscreen data for a certain period of time without refreshing the data, even when the current is off. This helps cut back the power consumption to achieve longer battery life for mobile displays."

This means that an image is pushed to the display, then the power can be shut off completely for an undisclosed period of time and it will still display the image.
A true way to reduce the power consumption would be to switch to a VA panel rather than IPS. VA offers comparable view angles and better contrast. It has a much higher transmittance rate which means that the backlight would not need to be as bright as the panel is able to let more light through. The htc one x uses a VA based panel not an IPS panel. So does the droid DNA hence why people were surprised when the battery was a lot better than people expected it to be. Both of these screens have been praised for being the industry best.

A good example that illustrates this is if you compare the power consumption of the dell 2408wfp and the dell u2410. The 2408wfp is S-PVA while the u2410 is H-IPS.


2408wfp -
110 W (maximum)
57 W (normal)

U2410w
132 W (Maximum)
75 W (Typical)

As you can see VA panels are more power efficient. The 2408wfp is actually brighter than the u2410 as well and has a much higher contrast ratio.


View angles. The u2410 (IPS) is closer while the 2408wfp (S-PVA) is further.


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Old Jan 19, 2013, 01:58 PM   #91
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You know, this whole thread made me think of something. Why is the front facing FaceTime camera on the iPhone five and respective iPad it's still 720 P, I mean, what's up with that?

If you could put an eyesight camera on the back of the phone what is stopping you from putting a high-quality camera on the front of the phone?

I don't know it just kind of seems like it's discouraging people from actually using FaceTime.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 02:35 PM   #92
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Higher quality camera on FaceTime will transmit more data. If you're using cellular then you'll go through your data plan faster, and not everyone has high speed wifi to make a 1080p FaceTime session run smooth.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 03:13 PM   #93
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Higher quality camera on FaceTime will transmit more data. Of you're using cellular then you'll go through your data plan faster, and not everyone has high speed wifi to make a 1080p FaceTime session run smooth.
Um, what about the back camera as mentioned by bonskovsky? That has been HD since the introduction of FT.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 03:18 PM   #94
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Um, what about the back camera as mentioned by bonskovsky? That has been HD since the introduction of FT.
How much do you use the rear camera for FaceTime. Not near as much as the front obviously.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 03:49 PM   #95
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^ That's not even possible. If its already 720, you might as well make it 1080. Come on
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 03:53 PM   #96
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why are people feeding trolls
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 04:30 PM   #97
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^ That's not even possible. If its already 720, you might as well make it 1080. Come on
What's not possible?

Do you understand data transfer rates and the amount of data that is being transferred with high definition video conferencing?



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why are people feeding trolls
Because I have nothing better to do today.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 05:47 PM   #98
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Contrary to what a lot of people have said in this thread, PPI is not everything. Apple hasn't made pixels "invisible", they can very much still be seen.

Just look at the star button in the App Store, it's very clearly pixelated.

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Old Jan 19, 2013, 05:56 PM   #99
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Contrary to what a lot of people have said in this thread, PPI is not everything. Apple hasn't made pixels "invisible", they can very much still be seen.

Just look at the star button in the App Store, it's very clearly pixelated.

Image
That is not normal viewing distance!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus. Welcome to the ignore list. I can't deal with this anymore.

There's not enough face palms in the world for some of the logic around here.

This is what you've done and why you see pixels.

Thumb resize.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 06:00 PM   #100
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Contrary to what a lot of people have said in this thread, PPI is not everything. Apple hasn't made pixels "invisible", they can very much still be seen.

Just look at the star button in the App Store, it's very clearly pixelated.

Image
It's pixelated in the massive picture you posted on here, which is much bigger than the iPhone 5's screen.

I can't see any pixels on my iPhone when I look at that button.
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