Apple TV 5.1 Update, Handbrake-encoded Files, and No 5.1 Audio

[The-Pro]

Its all interesting and stuff that you are finding out how to fix it but has anyone bothered writing to apple about what has changed? maybe they did not realise and it was a mistake. Quite possible that they change it back in an update.

I am currently in the process of ripping 600+ dvd for someone I know. They want to be able to watch them on the ATV 3. I am using handbrake and selecting the apple tv 3 preset. This results in two audio tracks. The first being English (AC3) (5.1ch) AAC (CoreAudio) and the second being English (AC3) (5.1ch) AC3 Passthru.
To my knowledge they have not yet upgraded the software to 5.1. Should I tell them not to so that they will be able to watch the ripped dvd's with audio?

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by The-Pro

Its all interesting and stuff that you are finding out how to fix it but has anyone bothered writing to apple about what has changed? maybe they did not realise and it was a mistake. Quite possible that they change it back in an update.

To my knowledge they have not yet upgraded the software to 5.1. Should I tell them not to so that they will be able to watch the ripped dvd's with audio?

Files ripped with Handbrake using the Apple TV 3 preset should work fine with the Apple TV 2/3 and the current firmware. And assuming this current problem in the latest iOS ATV update is a bug, Apple will most likely issue a fix.

There's no need to install the update immediately, so if they haven't done it yet, tell them to hold off for a month.

[The-Pro]

Originally Posted by Idgit

Files ripped with Handbrake using the Apple TV 3 preset should work fine with the Apple TV 2/3 and the current firmware. And assuming this current problem in the latest iOS ATV update is a bug, Apple will most likely issue a fix.

There's no need to install the update immediately, so if they haven't done it yet, tell them to hold off for a month.

Ok great, I will tell them to not install it yet. Hopefully the fix this

[MichaelLAX]

Originally Posted by The-Pro

...I am currently in the process of ripping 600+ dvd for someone I know. They want to be able to watch them on the ATV 3. I am using handbrake and selecting the apple tv 3 preset. This results in two audio tracks. The first being English (AC3) (5.1ch) AAC (CoreAudio) and the second being English (AC3) (5.1ch) AC3 Passthru.
To my knowledge they have not yet upgraded the software to 5.1. Should I tell them not to so that they will be able to watch the ripped dvd's with audio?

Your first audio track seems inconsistent: either it is 6 channel AC3 or 6 channel AAC (or even potentially converted to a 2 channel AAC); but it cannot be both!

"...ripping 600+ dvd for someone I know" -- what a friend!?! So can I become a friend and have a copy, too?

[The-Pro]

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

Your first audio track seems inconsistent: either it is 6 channel AC3 or 6 channel AAC (or even potentially converted to a 2 channel AAC); but it cannot be both!

"...ripping 600+ dvd for someone I know" -- what a friend!?! So can I become a friend and have a copy, too?

hmm ok, I have attached a screenshot with what the apple tv 3 preset chooses. I have used this for over 300 movies so far and all works perfectly on apple tv 3 with the one older software.
6channel doesnt exist on any of the DVDs I am converting so im confused.

Haha, yeah family friends. But they are paying me and I am getting a copy of all of them on a 2TB external HDD
I doubt thats going to happen mate, no offense

[MichaelLAX]

The first audio channel is a mix down of the 6 channel AC3 to 2 channel AAC stereo for non Dolby/2 channel playback, such as a 2 channel TV. As an extra bonus, it is encoded in Dolby Pro Logic II (which is an encoded version that can be dematrixed back to a form of 5.1 surround sound by certain, primarily analog, home theater equipment).

The second audio channel is a pass-thru of the 6 (discrete) channel AC3 for Dolby Digital Surround systems. Most home theater equipment will play this channel as true discrete (non-matrixed) surround sound.

[The-Pro]

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

The first audio channel is a mix down of the 6 channel AC3 to 2 channel AAC stereo for non Dolby/2 channel playback, such as a 2 channel TV. As an extra bonus, it is encoded in Dolby Pro Logic II (which is an encoded version that can be dematrixed back to a form of 5.1 surround sound by certain, primarily analog, home theater equipment).

The second audio channel is a pass-thru of the 6 channel AC3 for Dolby Digital Surround compatibility. Most home theater equipment will play this channel as true discrete (non-matrixed) surround sound.

OK,
so am I doing it correctly then?

[MichaelLAX]

Yes: although I did not understand this comment - "6channel doesnt exist on any of the DVDs I am converting so im confused."

6 channel AC3 clearly exists on the particular DVD that was the basis of the screenshot.

If you ever have this screenshot (where the 2nd audio track is only 2 channels), you want to change the 2nd audio track to NONE (no point in wasting file space with a redundant 2nd track that is also 2 channel):

[The-Pro]

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

Yes: although I did not understand this comment - "6channel doesnt exist on any of the DVDs I am converting so im confused."

6 channel AC3 clearly exists on the particular DVD that was the basis of the screenshot.

If you ever have this screenshot (where the 2nd audio track is only 2 channels), you want to change the 2nd audio track to NONE (no point in wasting file space with a redundant 2nd track that is also 2 channel):

i think I get it now It doenst say 6channel in handbrake so I didnt understand what you meant.
I dont know much about this. I read about whats best to use in handbrake for converting dvds to be watched on apple tv.

Good to know that I did that a few time all ready, won't anymore. cheers

[ConvertApple]

I have to beg to differ that what apple have done is a very BAD idea.

Previously if two tracks were both selected it would 'gracefully' select the stereo/dolby one dependant on your audio pref in the settings. The NEW behaviour is to play the file with no sound coming out at all! No error or warning or indication of the problem. So most people will assume their hardware is broken or something and waste ages wondering why and not be able to easily fix it as it appears to be playing. Their first action will be to press unmute on their tv/amp!

Anyway my app fixed all my files overnight while I slept. I would release the app but I HATE apps that crash and break so need to do more testing, refinement. I had planned to in approx 2 weeks anyway, I'll see if I can speed it up.

[ConvertApple]

Originally Posted by Idgit

Glad to hear you got it working.

I could be wrong, but I think chapters are only supported if the video has the file extension M4V (rather than MP4).


Also, be sure to use mp4file (part of MP4v2) to "optimize" your MP4/M4V files.


If the MP4/M4V file will be bigger than 4 GB, be sure to enable "64 Bit chunk offset" or the file may not work on older devices.

It only ever creates .m4v files anyway

-z on mp4track does that already does optimisation doesn't it (according to the help)

I assume 64 bit chunk is handled by ffmpeg as I have files > 4gb that play fine

[Yebubbleman]

Forgive my confusion, but is this a bug that is only in effect with Handbrake-encoded files that worked in the previous version of the AppleTV OS/Firmware? Or is this bug in effect with everything? I don't have a 5.1 Audio setup, but I do have a third generation AppleTV and I did update it to the latest OS/Firmware, so I'd like to know whether I can expect similar bugs in my daily usage of it. I don't use Handbrake; haven't for a long while, because I got tired of trying to catch up with the various device resolutions that have come out since I was last using it.

[MichaelLAX]

There is some confusion generated because in this thread there are two "5.1" concepts being discussed:

1) iOS v5.1 which seems to be causing loss of audio on Handbrake'd DVDs encoded in the ATV3 setting. I have not updated to iOS 5.1 and many are recommending that we do not upgrade to iOS 5.1 until this loss of audio problem is solved.

2) Discussion of Dolby Surround's AC3 5.1 track (five channels plus sub-woofer), which Handbrake will provide as a "pass-thru" in addition to a newly encoded 2 track AAC stereo track. This provides compatibility with all devices: Home Theater which supports 5.1 surround sound and stereo 2 channel/speaker devices, such as TVs.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

There is some confusion generated because in this thread there are two "5.1" concepts being discussed:

1) iOS v5.1 which seems to be causing loss of audio on Handbrake'd DVDs encoded in the ATV3 setting. I have not updated to iOS 5.1 and many are recommending that we do not upgrade to iOS 5.1 until this loss of audio problem is solved.

2) Discussion of Dolby Surround's AC3 5.1 track (five channels plus sub-woofer), which Handbrake will provide as a "pass-thru" in addition to a newly encoded 2 track AAC stereo track. This provides compatibility with all devices: Home Theater which supports 5.1 surround sound and stereo 2 channel/speaker devices, such as TVs.

I think this comes from someone early in the thread that was having the problem, discovering that their problem file, had both stereo and AC3 passthrough checked. Others that had the loss of audio found that switching the aTV Dolby on and off restored the sound. And actually, those people never really posted enough information to deduce where their problem originated.

I think it's an over-reaction to not download 5.1 as long as your files don't have both stereo and AC3 pass-through checked as default tracks. Something may have changed in 5.1 but the basic problem is probably with the files and thus 5.1 would not be "fixed".

On the other hand, 5.1 is a pretty marginal change. If there is not something in it that you absolutely must have, why change.

[Bymatt]

Originally Posted by mic j

How are you getting Handbrake mkv to your AVR?

Sorry to be so long in answering. I send the MKV from my macpro to a mac book via a 10ft ethernet. Takes about 2 minutes to xfer a 100 minute mkv. Can do a weeks worth in about 9 minutes. All done with the apple share software. Once in the macbook or any computer, I output the mkv on the DVI jack and an HDMI converter then into the AVR. Its really simple and an easy workflow all told. NO jail breaking. I play the movies with Movist. Love it and the true quality of sound, esp DTS.... Just cant do that through the ATV and the encode to MKV really takes no longer than encoding for atv.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by Bymatt

Sorry to be so long in answering. I send the MKV from my macpro to a mac book via a 10ft ethernet. Takes about 2 minutes to xfer a 100 minute mkv. Can do a weeks worth in about 9 minutes. All done with the apple share software. Once in the macbook or any computer, I output the mkv on the DVI jack and an HDMI converter then into the AVR. Its really simple and an easy workflow all told. NO jail breaking. I play the movies with Movist. Love it and the true quality of sound, esp DTS.... Just cant do that through the ATV and the encode to MKV really takes no longer than encoding for atv.

Thanks. I had the suspicion you were not using the aTV. I used to use my MBP hooked up to my AVR by cable, but it was just too inconvenient having it tied up. That's why I have used a series of media streamers and have settled on the aTV.

[sampdoria]

Originally Posted by Idgit

Correct. For standard ATV 2 compatible files, the first audio track should be AAC Stereo and it should be checked. The second audio track can be surround sound AC-3 or AAC 5.1 and it should be un-checked.

Also, when you open the file in Subler, the audio tracks should both belong to Alternate Group 1. The video track should belong to Alternate Group None.

When set like that, the Apple TV should select the surround sound track automatically if you have receiver capable of playing surround sound audio.

I typically have both audio tracks enabled (2ch and 6ch) in my m4v files (ripped and purchased from iTunes). No problems with the 6ch audio track playing automatically in ATV2 prior to software update 5.1. But since updating to 5.1, I also have the same issue as mentioned above. Once I disabled the 6ch audio track in Subler, problem solved- 6ch audio track plays automatically.

Not sure if this is a bug or not. Maybe this (6ch audio track disabled) is the way it is supposed to be. Seems like a bug to me, since the problem also occurs on ones purchased from iTunes as well. But the fix is easy (thank goodness for Subler!), just a bit inconvenient to apply the fix to all my m4v's.

[KenniJH]

Same problem as OP, everything worked before 5.1. I ude HandBrake as Well as PavTube iMedia converter and rips from before and after the 5.1 Update has the problem.
So deffo the Update... Please fix Apple!
:-)

[MrXiro]

Originally Posted by Osip

I'll try to keep this brief: I did AC3 Passthru PLUS AAC Stereo using the Handbrake presets for a handful of DVDs I own to test out converting my collection to an iTunes-compatible format. Prior to the 5.1 update, all was working well; 5.1 when playing through the Apple TV, stereo when I played the exact same file on my iPhone or iPad. Now the same files still play fine on my iPad and iPhone, but the Apple TV refuses to output any audio on files that have an option between 5.1 and 2.0 (stereo). I went into Netflix on my Apple TV, picked a movie with 5.1 audio, and it played back properly without an issue.

My Apple TV is connected to my receiver via HDMI-only and my receiver is connected to my TV via HDMI as well. I've tried both forcing Dolby Output to "On" and "Auto" as well. I've found some comments on Apple's support forum from several years ago stating that using optical might fix a similar issue, but I fail to see why Apple would take a step backwards in HDMI-connectivity. :/

Since no one else seems to be complaining about this recently anywhere I've seen, it must be me. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I haven't read through any of the pages yet... just your post. I figured out a temporary fix.

Just hold down the select button and switch to stereo audio and play, hold down select again and then switch back to surround audio and it works fine again... hopefully it'll be fixed in the next update. (This is a handful of files I ripped using Handbrake about a month back) Most of my other rips seemed fine which is weird.

----------

Originally Posted by Rushli0n

So I found a weird workaround. Hold select and go up to the Audio options and select the stereo track. Then go back and select the surround track. The Dolby works after you reselect it. What sucks is after I close the movie and play it again, I have to do that workaround again.

Seems it's been mentioned... and solved with Subler... good... I was having a fit trying to fix it earlier today!

[The-Pro]

any updates on this?

[GarrettL1979]

It's mildly amusing that the 5.1 update caused 5.1 surround issues, no?

[slothrob]

It's unclear to me, is this only happening to files that have gone through Subler, or is this true for files right out of Handbrake?

It doesn't seem like a lot of people are complaining about this. Is it just that people aren't aware whether they have DD or not?

I'd like to update to 5.1, but I'm not willing to sacrifice DD for it.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by slothrob

It's unclear to me, is this only happening to files that have gone through Subler, or is this true for files right out of Handbrake?

It doesn't seem like a lot of people are complaining about this. Is it just that people aren't aware whether they have DD or not?

I'd like to update to 5.1, but I'm not willing to sacrifice DD for it.

The problem is, some people has some files that have somehow gotten AAC stereo and AC3 5.1 tracks checked as default tracks. Only the AAC stereo track should be checked as default. For some reason, v5.0 software was tolerant of have 2 tracks checked as default and v5.1 is not tolerant of it. Obviously, you should not have multiple tracks checked as default. Subler is used to correct the double default track selection.

[slothrob]

Originally Posted by mic j

The problem is, some people has some files that have somehow gotten AAC stereo and AC3 5.1 tracks checked as default tracks.

This is part of what is confusing me. How are people choosing multiple tracks as Default in Handbrake?

That sound like something that you can only do in a secondary program, like Subler.

[Diode]

Originally Posted by slothrob

This is part of what is confusing me. How are people choosing multiple tracks as Default in Handbrake?

That sound like something that you can only do in a secondary program, like Subler.

As subler is a great tool for adding Tags - a lot of people use it. Probably partly user error and partly poor design on Subler's fault. I can see a user thinking everything needs to be checked when it's loaded in Subler and your saving the file.

Intuitively you would think if you "unchecked" something it would remove it from the file when you save it - but that's not the case with Subler.

I had this problem way before iOS 5.1 as did others.