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Old Sep 26, 2012, 03:08 PM   #1
Dino F
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How Steve Jobs Changed the World

There is a program, currently on right now, as I type this, all about Steve Jobs! Channel 219 on Virgin Media ( Discovery Science)
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 11:50 PM   #2
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He didn't change the world.... he put a dent in the universe.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 11:59 PM   #3
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He didn't change the world.... he put a dent in the universe.
He.....took products that already existed.....made them shiny...and was good at marketing....

Sure he ran a good company, and was a good marketing head. But thats about it imo.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 01:41 AM   #4
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He.....took products that already existed.....made them shiny...and was good at marketing....

Sure he ran a good company, and was a good marketing head. But thats about it imo.
What? Apple was the pioneer, the inventor, the innovator, that shaped the whole industry. Many technologies we take for granted today were pioneered by Apple. For example — Wi-Fi.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 01:50 AM   #5
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What? Apple was the pioneer, the inventor, the innovator, that shaped the whole industry. Many technologies we take for granted today were pioneered by Apple. For example — Wi-Fi.
Wait what? How did Apple "pioneer" Wi-Fi?
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 01:51 AM   #6
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Wait what? How did Apple "pioneer" Wi-Fi?
that first clamshell iBook was the first laptop with WiFi.

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Old Oct 4, 2012, 01:55 AM   #7
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Wait what? How did Apple "pioneer" Wi-Fi?
Did not invent it, agreed.

I remember where I was, though, when he tried to popularize it. Back then I hung on every word he said, and I was watching the keynote event from a Trontheim, Norrway public library on dial-up. Amazing that back then Apple could stream the events live and now they can't (Google tonight streamed the live presidential debate, so I don't think it's an impossibility). Anyhow, he showed the first iBooks (the colorful ones) and how they were on the Internet and then passed a hula hoop over them like a magician. As I recall, the audience didn't immediately get it. I'm guessing this was early 2000s, like 2001 or so, but not sure.

So, that's what Steve Jobs did for WiFi. He showed that it worked even when suspended through a hula hoop. And to be honest, that was probably the first time I paid attention to WiFi.

EDIT: Realized it couldn't have been 2001 and looked it up; it was 1999.

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Old Oct 4, 2012, 02:51 AM   #8
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So basically what G51989 said then... they take something already existing, implement it, and then market the hell out of it. Apple rarely implements anything new, but they do have a knack for timing, and are able to release things when the tech becomes mature and viable. That's the thing they're bloody good at.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 02:55 AM   #9
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So basically what G51989 said then... they take something already existing,
No, there weren't any notebooks with Wi-Fi before the first iBook.

Also what is known as the modern OS GUI based on control panels, overlapping windows with drop down menus and drag&drop object manipulation was Apple's invention.

Desktop publishing was Apple's invention (LaserWriter + Pagemaker gave it birth).

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Old Oct 4, 2012, 03:24 AM   #10
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No, there weren't any notebooks with Wi-Fi before the first iBook.
But Wi-Fi itself did exist. They implemented it in a new product, but that's not inventing something (at least in my eyes).

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Also what is known as the modern OS GUI based on control panels, overlapping windows with drop down menus and drag&drop object manipulation was Apple's invention.
Wasn't that actually based on what Xerox invented? I could be wrong.

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Desktop publishing was Apple's invention (LaserWriter + Pagemaker gave it birth).
Never heard of that, but I'll read up on it, sounds interesting.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 03:28 AM   #11
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He.....took products that already existed.....made them shiny...and was good at marketing....

Sure he ran a good company, and was a good marketing head. But thats about it imo.
He took Apple and made it the most valuable company in the world.

He took Pixar and made it the best Animation Studio in the world.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 04:14 AM   #12
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The iBook may have been the first Apple laptop with WiFi built-in, but you could add Wi-Fi to PowerBooks prior to that through their PCMIA slots. PowerBooks used to be extremely expandable. You could swap out optical drives, add extra batteries, all sorts of stuff.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 04:44 AM   #13
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But Wi-Fi itself did exist. They implemented it in a new product, but that's not inventing something (at least in my eyes).
Wi-Fi means nothing per se, it's useless, it's not even something tangible. It's just a standard. What matters most is the end product which makes use of the technology. Now you see Wi-Fi everywhere, everywhere and a laptop which has no wifi support noone is going to buy. Wasn't that a revolution? Not to mention all modern laptops are based on the design of Apple's Powerbook 100.

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Wasn't that actually based on what Xerox invented? I could be wrong.
Wasn't the automobile based on the wooden wagon? Should beavers sue the USA for the Hoover Dam? BTW Xerox had nothing to do with drag'n'drop or overlapping windows. Their GUI concepts were extremely simple and abstract unlike what Apple created for the Macintosh (the complete GUI solution) and what Microsoft later ripped off.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 04:59 AM   #14
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Wi-Fi means nothing per se, it's useless, it's not even something tangible. It's just a standard. What matters most is the end product which makes use of the technology. Now you see Wi-Fi everywhere, everywhere and a laptop which has no wifi support noone is going to buy. Wasn't that a revolution? Not to mention all modern laptops are based on the design of Apple's Powerbook 100.
And yet Apple merely implemented it, not invent it, as I said.

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Wasn't the automobile based on the wooden wagon? Should beavers sue the USA for the Hoover Dam? BTW Xerox had nothing to do with drag'n'drop or overlapping windows. Their GUI concepts were extremely simple and abstract unlike what Apple created for the Macintosh (the complete GUI solution) and what Microsoft later ripped off.
Your analogy is a little ridiculous. Where do you draw the line at invention? They based their GUI on what Xerox created. They improved it, for sure, but in the end it was still based on the work done by Xerox. To me, that is Xerox's invention.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 05:04 AM   #15
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And yet Apple merely implemented it, not invent it, as I said.
What does it matter? WiFi was a product of cooperation between several companies who specialized in communication. Apple is and have always been a system vendor and software company. They don't have to invent specialized electronics. However you have them to thank for your wireless network at home. Not Dell, not Microsoft and definitely not Samsung.

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Your analogy is a little ridiculous. Where do you draw the line at invention? They based their GUI on what Xerox created. They improved it, for sure, but in the end it was still based on the work done by Xerox. To me, that is Xerox's invention.
So an automobile is not an invention since horse-drawn (and 4-wheeled!) vehicles existed long before it? What your Mac's GUI has in common with Xerox is basically just that: windows. Everything else is Apple's work. Think about it.

And ASCII art existed long before Xerox's concepts. Representation of something other than text on a computer screen is nothing new and Xerox really didn't invent it.

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Old Oct 4, 2012, 05:15 AM   #16
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The guy was good at knowing how to make things user friendly but also powerful, a trait that I feel has gone from Apple as displayed by their most recent software updates. OS X has been transformed into a complex iOS nightmare and iOS is very lagging.

Their hardware still appears to be very good though, despite still overpriced.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 05:18 AM   #17
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What does it matter? You have them to thank for your wireless network at home. Not Dell, not Microsoft and definitely not Samsung.
No, I'll thank the person who invented Wi-Fi actually. How do you know it wouldn't have become the standard on it's own.

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So an automobile is not an invention since horse-drawn (and 4-wheeled!) vehicles existed long before it? What your Mac's GUI has in common with Xerox is basically just that: windows. Everything else is Apple's work. Think about it.
I have indeed thought about it. Firstly, your carriage-to-car analogy is pretty irrelevant. It's not the same thing, stop using it as a crutch to prop your argument up. Regardless of the work Apple did to improve it, we should be thanking Xerox for the modern GUI, as they were the creators of the foundation for it. Of course, that's a simplistic view, but the fact is that they laid the groundwork for what Apple did.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 05:26 AM   #18
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No, I'll thank the person who invented Wi-Fi actually. How do you know it wouldn't have become the standard on it's own.
It wasn't a single person, it was a joint effort.
And it was Apple who paved the way for it to your home, because noone was seeeing IEEE 802.11 (no, it wasn't called Wi-Fi back then) as a technology useful to consumers. Give them credit where credit is due already.

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I have indeed thought about it. Firstly, your carriage-to-car analogy is pretty irrelevant. It's not the same thing, stop using it as a crutch to prop your argument up. Regardless of the work Apple did to improve it, we should be thanking Xerox for the modern GUI, as they were the creators of the foundation for it. Of course, that's a simplistic view, but the fact is that they laid the groundwork for what Apple did.
Then when you are in a computer museam and it happens to have a Xerox Alto, and if they let you play with it, do and see how my analogy is really really relevant. You probably think that Xerox Alto had an OS with a GUI, like, windows, desktop, taskbar, menus, control panels, active content, advanced object manipulation, drag'n'drop, and Apple just copied it, no, you are very mistaken. My analogy stands strong.
And you really think cars didn't have anything to do with carriages? No, you really do?

Also how is drag'n'drop not an invention?

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Old Oct 4, 2012, 05:43 AM   #19
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It wasn't a single person, it was a joint effort.
And it was Apple who paved the way for it to your home, because noone was seeeing IEEE 802.11 (no, it wasn't called Wi-Fi back then) as a technology useful to consumers. Give them credit where credit is due already.
I've already given them credit for implementing it. You just want me to credit the entire technology to them, which is dumb. Give others credit where it's due.

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Then when you are in a computer museam and it happens to have a Xerox Alto, and if they let you play with it, do and see how my analogy is really really relevant. You probably think that Xerox Alto had an OS with a GUI, like, windows, desktop, taskbar, menus, control panels, active content, advanced object manipulation, drag'n'drop, and Apple just copied it, no, you are very mistaken. My analogy stands strong.
And you really think cars didn't have anything to do with carriages? No, you really do?

Also how is drag'n'drop not an invention?
You're going out of your way to not see my point and then misinterpret my words, so this is a futile effort. I don't think either of us are going to change our minds here, so for the benefit of others I think I'll just stop this right here.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 05:46 AM   #20
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It wasn't a single person, it was a joint effort.
And it was Apple who paved the way for it to your home, because noone was seeeing IEEE 802.11 (no, it wasn't called Wi-Fi back then) as a technology useful to consumers. Give them credit where credit is due already.
That's not quite true. Laptop makers at the time were selling PCMCIA based wireless solutions, they just didn't build in the antennas and chips to support the tech in the laptop casings and on the motherboards.

This was actually quite a bit better as the standard was evolving quickly and as such, buyers didn't need to change out the whole laptop when they wanted to move to the newer, more robust 802.11 standard. The iBook had planned obsolescence built right in, the exact opposite. You could say the iBook pioneered the throwaway laptop model in a sense. I remember back when laptops were actually much more extensible...

So no, we don't have to thank Apple. Not for USB, not for Wifi. Overlapping windows ? Sure, I'll give them that, but that's Apple of the 80s. Apple doesn't "invent" things anymore, they take what exists out there, market the crap out of it and make you think they were the first ones there.

Basically, what G51989 said and what you initially were opposed to, before you moved those goalposts all the way to the continent on the other side of the ocean.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 06:13 AM   #21
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Basically, what G51989 said and what you initially were opposed to
He said "products", not "components". Laptops are products, the iPhone is a product. Apple is not a component maker, Apple is a system vendor (a very advanced one). What smartphone was capacitative multi-touch with an OS designed to be operated using your fingers before the iPhone? And do you agree that Apple pretty much invented digital distribution?
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 06:19 AM   #22
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He said "products", not "components". Laptops are products, the iPhone is a product. Apple is not a component maker, Apple is a system vendor (a very advanced one). What smartphone was capacitative multi-touch with an OS designed to be operated using your fingers before the iPhone?
You're moving the goalposts again. Products are a sum of components. Throwing components together, integrating them, does not mean you invented squat.

You're sayign the same G5189 said, except now you're sugarcoating it to make it seem you're not doing a 180. Glad you could join us in the real world though.

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And do you agree that Apple pretty much invented digital distribution?
Nope. Apple reacted to digital distribution trends put in place by P2P systems like Audio Galaxy and Napster by providing a legitimate system in place. Digital distribution is as old as the Internet. Heck, I use to get software patches for old DOS games from official BBS back in the early 90s and late 80s.

Again. Bear with us :

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He.....took products that already existed.....made them shiny...and was good at marketing....

Sure he ran a good company, and was a good marketing head. But thats about it imo.
I don't know why you're being so offended by the truth. That is and was Apple's strength. Take what exists out there and package it in a way that makes people want it.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 06:31 AM   #23
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You're moving the goalposts again. Products are a sum of components. Throwing components together, integrating them, does not mean you invented squat.
You're missing the point. Think about architecture. Bricks and glass aren't worth a dime, but when you throw them together — in a really right way — you end up with something great, something generations will marvel at.

And who really marvels at Intel ABG3955 wireless chips?

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Nope. Apple reacted to digital distribution trends put in place by P2P systems like Audio Galaxy and Napster by providing a legitimate system in place. Digital distribution is as old as the Internet. Heck, I use to get software patches for old DOS games from official BBS back in the early 90s and late 80s.
No-no-no. Digital distribution is digital distribution of paid and free multimedia content to end consumers wuithout the use of physical media. FTP is not digital distribution. Digital distribution first and foremost is an online platform, an online store which delivers goods digitally.

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I don't know why you're being so offended by the truth.
I am not offended. Well I am a little, just because I have come to love Apple's products over the years and it pisses me off when people tell me I love them for nothing and "others had it before". Well, they didn't. And when they did, Apple had it better, most of the time. They want Apple to cease to exist. And I dread tt the prospect of having to go back to Windows because noone will be selling MacBook Pro's on OS X anymore.

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Old Oct 4, 2012, 07:05 AM   #24
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You're missing the point. Think about architecture. Bricks and glass aren't worth a dime, but when you throw them together — in a really right way — you end up with something great, something generations will marvel at.

And who really marvels at Intel ABG3955 wireless chips?
The same kind of people who marvel at cheap plastic toys built from those chips. Sorry, the iBook is not something that generations will marvel at, that you compare it to artistic architecture is just an insult to all the great living souls that have left behind the marvels of the world.

And they didn't invent squat either. Just like Leonardo da Vinci didn't invent squat when he painted the Mona Lisa. It's still a great painting and shows the talent and mastery the man held for painting. Just like Steve's legacy is his mastery of marketing and component integration.

Credit due where credit is due...


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No-no-no. Digital distribution is digital distribution of paid and free multimedia content to end consumers wuithout the use of physical media. FTP is not digital distribution. Digital distribution first and foremost is an online platform, an online store which delivers goods digitally.
Ah, moving goalposts again, redefining the broad terms to fit a narrow view. Seems to be your modus operandi.

But unfortunately, I and many others don't buy it sorry. Digital distribution is the distribution of digital files. The underlying protocol and method is not at question nor whether said distribution is legitimate or not in light of your geophraphical copyright laws.

Without MP3s and illicit distribution of said files, no one would have built MP3 players. Without MP3 players, Apple would have never ripped off Creative Labs' UI nor their use of IBM's Micro drive technology to build the iPod. Without the iPod, Apple would have never bought SoundJam which means iTunes would have never seen the light of day. And without all of those people sharing that music and wanting ways to do it online legitimately, the music companies would have never caved to Apple to grant them rights for digital distribution in a legitimate way, in hopes of combating the rampant piracy that was going on.

Ie, Apple didn't invent squat. They were there at the right time, "Stole" the right technology from Creative Labs, bought the right components from IBM and squeezed the labels for a distribution deal good enough to get people on-board instead of on P2P networks.

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I am not offended. Well I am a little, just because I have come to love Apple's products over the years and it pisses me off when people tell me I love them for nothing and "others had it before".
Thank you. Now we know where to stand with you. Basically, reality will always roll off your back the same way water does a duck's. There is no reasoning with people who have a "love" for plastic and innanimate objects.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 07:32 AM   #25
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There is no reasoning with people who have a "love" for plastic and innanimate objects.
Ah, seems like redefining the broad terms to fit a narrow view is exactly your tactics, not mine. Love is a broad term. Noone is talking about romance here.

Deep hatred apple haters feel for Apple products and for people who use them is something to be worried about.
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