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Old Oct 18, 2012, 11:45 AM   #51
Beavx
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Originally Posted by cababah View Post
Very interesting. I also have a Week 38 iPhone 5 (Black/32GB) from F2L factory and it is cosmetically perfect. I have no scratches or scuffs on it. I also have absolutely no WiFi issues at all.

Besides your particular phone, where have you gathered this mass amount of data to conclude that ALL phones from F2L during Week 38 are flawed? I would like to know... I saw the link and still find that inconclusive as the riot happened on Oct 6th which is WAY past when the week 38 phones were built.

There is no one factory where problem phones are coming from; it can be traced to all of them as well as the scratches and build week correlation. Some people have flawless week 35/36 phones and some have scratched week 40 ones. Correlation FAIL, you LOSE therefore you get NOTHING, good day, sir.
I wasn't trying to get anything form this post... I'm making assumptions based on information I shared, in case there is a pattern......

At this point, I regret even offering information or even signing up to this site.

Good day, Richard.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 11:45 AM   #52
AJAAY
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Originally Posted by Ran7 View Post
If it is a replacement for factory damage then there is no need to accept a refurb, legally a replacement for that has to be new in box saleable as new (unless you agree otherwise, which you dont have to).
In terms of determining if it is, why bother trying to decode serial numbers. Just send an email asking.
Do you have proof of this claim?

After you buy the phone, any manufacture defect is a warranty issue. So you will get a warranty replacement (which maybe new or refurb). If you are still within 30 day window, you can return the unit fully and buy another one if you choose not to want a warranty replacement. They legally do not have to give you a new in the box.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 11:57 AM   #53
Ran7
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Originally Posted by VandyChem2009 View Post
Please show me how legally the replacement has to be new in box.
It is illegal to force a refurb on a sold as new item that has factory damage. It is part of Magnuson-Moss.
It is also covered under false advertising laws. It is outside of your normal warranty and in implied warranty and false advertising law.

Replacements for written warranty can be refurbs, replacements for on delivery damage can not.

----------

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Originally Posted by AJAAY View Post
Do you have proof of this claim?

After you buy the phone, any manufacture defect is a warranty issue. So you will get a warranty replacement (which maybe new or refurb). If you are still within 30 day window, you can return the unit fully and buy another one if you choose not to want a warranty replacement. They legally do not have to give you a new in the box.
They legally must give you a new or give you a refund. A factory damage on delivery discovery is not a claim on written warranty, but implied warranty (which is actually stronger)
Don't confuse a warranty claim for some issue that pops up in 60 days for discovery of factory damage on delivery.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 11:59 AM   #54
VandyChem2009
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Originally Posted by Ran7 View Post
It is illegal to force a refurb on a sold as new item that has factory damage. It is part of Magnuson-Moss.
It is also covered under false advertising laws. It is outside of your normal warranty and in implied warranty and false advertising law.

Replacements for written warranty can be refurbs, replacements for on delivery damage can not.

----------


They legally must give you a new or give you a refund. A factory damage on delivery discovery is not a claim on written warranty, but implied warranty (which is actually stronger)
Don't confuse a warranty claim for some issue that pops up in 60 days for discovery of factory damage on delivery.
If you open the phone in the store and find damage that is one thing. Yes, you should return it and get a new in box item. However, if you take the phone home and open it up, how the heck does apple know if that damage was from factory and not caused by you. They have no obligation legally or marally to give you a new sealed in box iPhone. However, Apple is a good enough company that they probably would. But no, legally once you leave the store with the item they are not obligated to give you a new one. Side note that court case you are referencing says they have to give you a replacement in a reasonable amount of time, not a new in box sealed phone but a replacement.....sounds like the white box phone to me.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 12:08 PM   #55
Ran7
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Originally Posted by VandyChem2009 View Post
However, if you take the phone home and open it up, how the heck does apple know if that damage was from factory and not caused by you. They have no obligation legally or marally to give you a new sealed in box iPhone. However, Apple is a good enough company that they probably would. But no, legally once you leave the store with the item they are not obligated to give you a new one. Side note that court case you are referencing says they have to give you a replacement in a reasonable amount of time, not a new in box sealed phone but a replacement.....sounds like the white box phone to me.
No. There is documented widespread factory damage. I got my phones by mail. Apple has the EXACT same replacement with new burden for phones opened in store and opened elsewhere. The probative burden shifts but given the widespread nature of the factory damage, that burden is easily satisfied.

And the court cases all say NEW. Again go to findlaw and check, there are many cases. If you ever worked in consumer sales management you would know this. It is a basic tenet. The condition of the phone is ADVERTISED, it is a quesiton of false advertising and implied warranty. There is no disclaimer for factory damage.

Again I agree that Apple is doing its best and making it easy after initial surprise.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 01:27 PM   #56
VandyChem2009
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Originally Posted by Ran7 View Post
No. There is documented widespread factory damage. I got my phones by mail. Apple has the EXACT same replacement with new burden for phones opened in store and opened elsewhere. The probative burden shifts but given the widespread nature of the factory damage, that burden is easily satisfied.

And the court cases all say NEW. Again go to findlaw and check, there are many cases. If you ever worked in consumer sales management you would know this. It is a basic tenet. The condition of the phone is ADVERTISED, it is a quesiton of false advertising and implied warranty. There is no disclaimer for factory damage.

Again I agree that Apple is doing its best and making it easy after initial surprise.
This kind sir is the exact stipulation of warranty "law":

"If the product, or a component part, contains a defect or malfunction, must permit the consumer to elect either a refund or replacement without charge, after a reasonable number of repair attempts."

I don't see anything that says it needs to be new and sealed. Burden is on you to prove me wrong.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 01:58 PM   #57
mcdj
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My F2LJ phone is brand new from a sealed retail box.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:33 PM   #58
Ran7
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Originally Posted by VandyChem2009 View Post
This kind sir is the exact stipulation of warranty "law":
"If the product, or a component part, contains a defect or malfunction, must permit the consumer to elect either a refund or replacement without charge, after a reasonable number of repair attempts."g.
Lol, that is is a cut quote.
Please do some reading on findlaw or Lexis on implied warranty (which is the warranty controlling new items sales.
Apple has an ABSOLUTE requirement to replace factory damaged with with new product.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:18 PM   #59
VandyChem2009
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Originally Posted by Ran7 View Post
Lol, that is is a cut quote.
Please do some reading on findlaw or Lexis on implied warranty (which is the warranty controlling new items sales.
Apple has an ABSOLUTE requirement to replace factory damaged with with new product.
.......I don't really know if you are trying to belittle me or if you are trying to make yourself feel better, what it states is that whatever you are buying is fit (usable) for it's purpose. A nick/scuff on the bezel of an iphone, a scratch on the back glass or aluminum plate hardly affects the usability of the product for it's purpose, the purpose of the device in this case being multimedia. So, if this factory damage effects it's usability you get a new product if not you don't get crap. So all these people having hissy fits over getting refurbished phones for scuff and scrapes are getting exactly what they deserve. Also learn if you are going to try to cut on someone make sure you don't make stupid mistakes like saying cut instead of cute. On a side note the OP did not state what the issue was with his initial phone so it could be that he was indeed due a new unopened phone but as most people on here complain about nicks or scuffs that hardly hinders the use of the item and therefore implied warranties are of no consequence.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:21 PM   #60
Dyce
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Wait so if you broke your phone and you're under AppleCare+, do they give you a brand new phone or a refurb?
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:23 PM   #61
VandyChem2009
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Wait so if you broke your phone and you're under AppleCare+, do they give you a brand new phone or a refurb?
You get a refurb? Did you think you would get a brand new sealed in box phone?
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:44 PM   #62
Dyce
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You get a refurb? Did you think you would get a brand new sealed in box phone?
No I was asking are the iPhones they give you from the white boxes 'new' phones or are they refurbs.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:45 PM   #63
VandyChem2009
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No I was asking are the iPhones they give you from the white boxes 'new' phones or are they refurbs.
Refurbs......It's kind of impossible to really tell though. I'm pretty sure that the first couple weeks they were new phones without the headphones and charging cable. But at this point I'm willing to bet the white box phones are refubs. If you are using a warranty to get a new phone you are going to get a refurbished phone.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:47 PM   #64
jk4lebron23
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Just returned my iPhone 5 to Apple and the lady said I shouldn't get a refurb because it's so early. However, my launch day iPhone 5 serial number began with C39J and now this one is F2LJ. I'm kind of bummed I didn't get a new one but a refurb. Has anyone replaced their iPhone 5 and gotten a same/different serial as their previous?
You can believe all you want... but you do not have a refurb
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:50 PM   #65
VandyChem2009
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You can believe all you want... but you do not have a refurb
What?
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:55 PM   #66
ghsNick
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Serial numbers are different and it came in a plain white replacement box. I would assume this indicates a refurb.
I got a new replacement phone my second day and it came in a plain white box...it was brand new. That's just how they shipped them.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:56 PM   #67
iBaloney
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it seems like the serial number is no longer a determinant of new or refurb phones. My iPhone 5 serial starts w/ DPNJ as well. I bought it on the week after launch.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:56 PM   #68
albertxp06
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Already stated many times, but yours is not a refurb.
My launch day iPhone 5 starts with F2MJ

Although I do have a feeling refurbs will be creeping into stores in a month or two
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 12:41 AM   #69
dominion155
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I was told by two apple geniuses that the replacement Iphones in stores right now are not refurbs, but instead brand new devices that are shipped from factory to the stores in the white boxes instead of retail packaging...


Why would apple do refurbs for replacements? It costs way less to just make a new one and give that as a replacement, compared to figuring out what exactly is wrong with a device and then fixing it.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 01:22 AM   #70
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I was told by two apple geniuses that the replacement Iphones in stores right now are not refurbs, but instead brand new devices that are shipped from factory to the stores in the white boxes instead of retail packaging...


Why would apple do refurbs for replacements? It costs way less to just make a new one and give that as a replacement, compared to figuring out what exactly is wrong with a device and then fixing it.
Not when all that was wrong was a tiny nick in the bezel...

And guys, I'm a lawyer... there is 100% NO legal obligation for Apple to replace your phone with anything but a FUNCTIONAL refurb. They have NO obligation to give you a new phone, sorry.

You can go ahead and think that, but you're wrong. It's ok though, you probably hear that a lot =).

I confirmed today when buying a Lightning cable that likely 100% of all white box 5's now ARE refurb. They weren't initially, but thanks to the OCD crowd Apple had PLENTY of supply.

They are also still experiencing high demand. Because of that, they'd rather SELL the new phones instead of swapping 6 at a time to appease perfection seekers. Now that they have refurbs instead, that's what you'll get.

I assumed that was the case, but my local Apple store manager CONFIRMED it for me (and mentioned it has gotten pretty ridiculous in terms of what people are demanding be replaced lol...).

Sorry. Get a white box, get a refurb.

Now the good news: Apple makes the best refurbs. So there's that...
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 01:28 AM   #71
JayLenochiniMac
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And guys, I'm a lawyer... there is 100% NO legal obligation for Apple to replace your phone with anything but a FUNCTIONAL refurb. They have NO obligation to give you a new phone, sorry..
Tell that to Ran7, who seems to think otherwise and cites the Magnusom-Moss Warranty Act as the basis.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 08:59 AM   #72
dominion155
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Not when all that was wrong was a tiny nick in the bezel...

And guys, I'm a lawyer... there is 100% NO legal obligation for Apple to replace your phone with anything but a FUNCTIONAL refurb. They have NO obligation to give you a new phone, sorry.

You can go ahead and think that, but you're wrong. It's ok though, you probably hear that a lot =).

I confirmed today when buying a Lightning cable that likely 100% of all white box 5's now ARE refurb. They weren't initially, but thanks to the OCD crowd Apple had PLENTY of supply.

They are also still experiencing high demand. Because of that, they'd rather SELL the new phones instead of swapping 6 at a time to appease perfection seekers. Now that they have refurbs instead, that's what you'll get.

I assumed that was the case, but my local Apple store manager CONFIRMED it for me (and mentioned it has gotten pretty ridiculous in terms of what people are demanding be replaced lol...).

Sorry. Get a white box, get a refurb.

Now the good news: Apple makes the best refurbs. So there's that...
For something as simple as a scratch I would assume they would just replace the casing. For something different such as a broken home button, it would take a much longer time for them to fix, and then put back on the market.


At the moment though, I dont believe there are any actual refurbs on the market. It will ATLEAST need to be at the 2 month mark to have refurbs. Takes a while for them to circulate back in.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 09:18 AM   #73
Steviejobz
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Definitely a refurb. YUCK.... Who knows what the prior owner did with it or what orifice it previously occupied.

Are you going to keep it?? I think you should toss it and just buy a brand new one.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 09:21 AM   #74
dominion155
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Definitely a refurb. YUCK.... Who knows what the prior owner did with it or what orifice it previously occupied.

Are you going to keep it?? I think you should toss it and just buy a brand new one.
LOL what do you think people use their Iphones for?
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 10:36 AM   #75
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Mine starts C38J.

I have no idea about the differences.
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