vBulletin Licensing Concern

[wrldwzrd89]

For a site as heavily used as this one... it would be a shame to see it forced offline by, of all things, the expiration (and impossibility of renewal) of your license to use the vBulletin forum software, due to the annual scheme used with V3.x being LONG since discontinued... heck, the vBulletin folks are about to unveil version 5 final, and we're still on 3.8.

That being said, if the license is NOT an issue at this time, there have been significant changes to vBulletin's features (we don't use the Member List, which is gone completely in vB5 and is not going to be reinstated, according to the developers) that will need to be taken into careful consideration if an upgrade is attempted.

[r.j.s]

Aren't vB licenses for life?

[SandboxGeneral]

I certainly believe that the site owner would be well aware of any potential upcoming issues with the license. I've heard that support on this version is about to expire, but not the licensing.

[ericrwalker]

Originally Posted by wrldwzrd89

For a site as heavily used as this one... it would be a shame to see it forced offline by, of all things, the expiration (and impossibility of renewal) of your license to use the vBulletin forum software, due to the annual scheme used with V3.x being LONG since discontinued... heck, the vBulletin folks are about to unveil version 5 final, and we're still on 3.8.

That being said, if the license is NOT an issue at this time, there have been significant changes to vBulletin's features (we don't use the Member List, which is gone completely in vB5 and is not going to be reinstated, according to the developers) that will need to be taken into careful consideration if an upgrade is attempted.

Any chance you work for Jelsoft Enterprises?

[arn]

Originally Posted by wrldwzrd89

For a site as heavily used as this one... it would be a shame to see it forced offline by, of all things, the expiration (and impossibility of renewal) of your license to use the vBulletin forum software, due to the annual scheme used with V3.x being LONG since discontinued... heck, the vBulletin folks are about to unveil version 5 final, and we're still on 3.8.

That being said, if the license is NOT an issue at this time, there have been significant changes to vBulletin's features (we don't use the Member List, which is gone completely in vB5 and is not going to be reinstated, according to the developers) that will need to be taken into careful consideration if an upgrade is attempted.

We have a lifetime license. So we can keep using 3.x for as long as we like.

vBulletin 4.x had issues. And there were potential performance issues moving to it. There weren't a ton of must-have features in 4, so we skipped it. A lot of the new features were in areas we didn't need (CMS, Blog). 3.x has been reasonably stable over time, and has the core features that we need.

vBulletin 5.x is a major departure from the traditional forum setup. I understand why they went this direction, and have thought myself that forums do need to evolve in a similar direction. However, their beta implementation of it right now seems poor. It's slow to load and still very much in beta. http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/

My current plans are to stick with vb3 and add additional customizations to it using our own developers. If we pursue that route, we will never upgrade to vB 4, 5 and beyond.

arn

[Comeagain?]

Even if the vB3 license expires, with the vB5 (and 4) licenses, you could download and use almost any version, even vB2.

vB5 is not ready for a system of this scale. It may work well for smaller community, but not one of this scale. It is too slow, missing too many features, and is currently focused less on in depth discussion, and more on sharing things like pictures, with small amounts of text. And who would want to spend the time to port so many features and additions to an almost complete rewrite of software, over two generations?

(Although I do like where vB4.2+ is going.)

Originally Posted by ericrwalker

Any chance you work for Jelsoft Enterprises?

You mean Internet Brands?

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by arn

We have a lifetime license. So we can keep using 3.x for as long as we like.

vBulletin 4.x had issues. And there were potential performance issues moving to it. There weren't a ton of must-have features in 4, so we skipped it. A lot of the new features were in areas we didn't need (CMS, Blog). 3.x has been reasonably stable over time, and has the core features that we need.

vBulletin 5.x is a major departure from the traditional forum setup. I understand why they went this direction, and have thought myself that forums do need to evolve in a similar direction. However, their beta implementation of it right now seems poor. It's slow to load and still very much in beta. http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/

My current plans are to stick with vb3 and add additional customizations to it using our own developers. If we pursue that route, we will never upgrade to vB 4, 5 and beyond.

arn

Would you ever consider dumping vB altogether for another forum software?

[arn]

Originally Posted by MacNut

Would you ever consider dumping vB altogether for another forum software?

I'd consider it, especially as we are dead-ended. Options are limited, however. And migrating a forum this size isn't a quick/easy task.

From my casual looking around, it seems IPB might be the only real viable alternative, but I haven't looked into details of limitations and issues of it.

If we dive headlong into customizing our install, though it would make it harder to move elsewhere.

arn

[BigPrince]

I think about this nightly, I am glad others share in this concern.

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by arn

I'd consider it, especially as we are dead-ended. Options are limited, however. And migrating a forum this size isn't a quick/easy task.

From my casual looking around, it seems IPB might be the only real viable alternative, but I haven't looked into details of limitations and issues of it.

If we dive headlong into customizing our install, though it would make it harder to move elsewhere.

arn

Have you looked into Simple Machines.

[ericrwalker]

Originally Posted by Comeagain?

You mean Internet Brands?

You're right, it looks like jelsoft and vbulletin both fall under Internet brands.


It does seem like an odd question by the OP.

[arn]

Originally Posted by MacNut

Have you looked into Simple Machines.

nah, just googled it a bit. not sure if it seems as mature as IPB (not that that's an imminent move anyway).

arn

[r.j.s]

Originally Posted by MacNut

Have you looked into Simple Machines.

Originally Posted by arn

nah, just googled it a bit. not sure if it seems as mature as IPB (not that that's an imminent move anyway).

arn

I'm an admin on another forum that uses SMF, and it isn't nearly as feature-packed as vB. I think we'd have a hard time making it work here, especially with the amount of tweaks there are to the basic vB.

[Comeagain?]

Originally Posted by r.j.s

I'm an admin on another forum that uses SMF, and it isn't nearly as feature-packed as vB. I think we'd have a hard time making it work here, especially with the amount of tweaks there are to the basic vB.

What's the speed like? I've never actually seen or used a fast SMF forum.

[r.j.s]

Originally Posted by Comeagain?

What's the speed like? I've never actually seen or used a fast SMF forum.

Depends on the server, really. We (the SMF forum) have a single server for the website and forum and a much smaller user base, so it is quick, but still slower than here.

[AlphaDogg]

I use another vBulletin forum frequently, which has vBulletin 4.0.8. I really like the quick response feature. I also like that it lets me do command+b for bold, or command+i for italics, etc. In many ways, I think 4.0.8 is superior to the version that we have here.

[dukebound85]

Originally Posted by AlphaDogg

I use another vBulletin forum frequently, which has vBulletin 4.0.8. I really like the quick response feature. I also like that it lets me do command+b for bold, or command+i for italics, etc. In many ways, I think 4.0.8 is superior to the version that we have here.

I do like the quick reply feature seen on other forums. IS there a reason that is not implemented here? or is that something vb 3.x can't be tweaked for?

[arn]

Originally Posted by AlphaDogg

I use another vBulletin forum frequently, which has vBulletin 4.0.8. I really like the quick response feature. I also like that it lets me do command+b for bold, or command+i for italics, etc. In many ways, I think 4.0.8 is superior to the version that we have here.

Originally Posted by dukebound85

I do like the quick reply feature seen on other forums. IS there a reason that is not implemented here? or is that something vb 3.x can't be tweaked for?

Quick Reply is a feature in 3.x. We just never turned it on. The main reason for the hesitation was always due to the way it handled threading -- and I had long thought we'd try to do something more useful with threading.

arn

[BigPrince]

So hypothetically if there was a move, what are some general changes the end user would see?

[wrldwzrd89]

Originally Posted by BigPrince

So hypothetically if there was a move, what are some general changes the end user would see?

First of all, the default skin's totally different. That change would be noticed by everyone right away, regardless of whether the move is to v4 or v5. Secondly, if the administrator chose to enable them, users would notice blog/CMS-like features in the forums. Finally, they'd notice missing features, such as the Member List being completely gone.

[Comeagain?]

Go play with it.

vB4 "demo" - http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum.php
vB5 "demo" - http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/

the vB5 demo is still only a beta, so it isn't very fast. The final version will be much faster.

With enough work, they could actually get vB4 to look almost exactly like this one. vB5 is a little more difficult.

[alphaod]

vBulletin offered a perpetual license for version 3.8; I'm sort of surprised MR didn't opt for the removal of branding. Then people won't know what version MR is actually on.

[BigPrince]

Originally Posted by wrldwzrd89

First of all, the default skin's totally different. That change would be noticed by everyone right away, regardless of whether the move is to v4 or v5. Secondly, if the administrator chose to enable them, users would notice blog/CMS-like features in the forums. Finally, they'd notice missing features, such as the Member List being completely gone.

Would it look like a forum and No members list? WTF!

[arn]

Originally Posted by alphaod

vBulletin offered a perpetual license for version 3.8; I'm sort of surprised MR didn't opt for the removal of branding. Then people won't know what version MR is actually on.

You can remove the version number either way. I just never have.

arn

[snowleopard48]

Originally Posted by arn

We have a lifetime license. So we can keep using 3.x for as long as we like.

vBulletin 4.x had issues. And there were potential performance issues moving to it. There weren't a ton of must-have features in 4, so we skipped it. A lot of the new features were in areas we didn't need (CMS, Blog). 3.x has been reasonably stable over time, and has the core features that we need.

vBulletin 5.x is a major departure from the traditional forum setup. I understand why they went this direction, and have thought myself that forums do need to evolve in a similar direction. However, their beta implementation of it right now seems poor. It's slow to load and still very much in beta. http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/

My current plans are to stick with vb3 and add additional customizations to it using our own developers. If we pursue that route, we will never upgrade to vB 4, 5 and beyond.

arn

Well that's a little sad. vB3 is ugly and old and will always be difficult to customise. I know many, many forums that use vB4 and it's fast and has no issues at all. Sure, skip vB4. But at least have a look at vB5. Please.

Originally Posted by alphaod

vBulletin offered a perpetual license for version 3.8; I'm sort of surprised MR didn't opt for the removal of branding. Then people won't know what version MR is actually on.

Unfortunately that wouldn't work. It's easy to tell when a forum is running software that was discontinued over 2 years ago.

I understand the issues that you face with upgrading, but at least have a think about it. It's awful to be stuck in the past, and I just want the best for MR.