Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Site and Forum Feedback

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Oct 1, 2012, 03:20 PM   #1
wrldwzrd89
macrumors G4
 
wrldwzrd89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Solon, OH
vBulletin Licensing Concern

For a site as heavily used as this one... it would be a shame to see it forced offline by, of all things, the expiration (and impossibility of renewal) of your license to use the vBulletin forum software, due to the annual scheme used with V3.x being LONG since discontinued... heck, the vBulletin folks are about to unveil version 5 final, and we're still on 3.8.

That being said, if the license is NOT an issue at this time, there have been significant changes to vBulletin's features (we don't use the Member List, which is gone completely in vB5 and is not going to be reinstated, according to the developers) that will need to be taken into careful consideration if an upgrade is attempted.
__________________
iMac Intel (Rev H, 27"), 1TB HDD, 16GB RAM, 10.8.4
wrldwzrd89 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 03:23 PM   #2
r.j.s
Moderator emeritus
 
r.j.s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fort Knox
Aren't vB licenses for life?
r.j.s is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 03:27 PM   #3
SandboxGeneral
Moderator
 
SandboxGeneral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Great Lakes State
I certainly believe that the site owner would be well aware of any potential upcoming issues with the license. I've heard that support on this version is about to expire, but not the licensing.
__________________
SandboxGeneral is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 03:31 PM   #4
ericrwalker
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albany, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrldwzrd89 View Post
For a site as heavily used as this one... it would be a shame to see it forced offline by, of all things, the expiration (and impossibility of renewal) of your license to use the vBulletin forum software, due to the annual scheme used with V3.x being LONG since discontinued... heck, the vBulletin folks are about to unveil version 5 final, and we're still on 3.8.

That being said, if the license is NOT an issue at this time, there have been significant changes to vBulletin's features (we don't use the Member List, which is gone completely in vB5 and is not going to be reinstated, according to the developers) that will need to be taken into careful consideration if an upgrade is attempted.

Any chance you work for Jelsoft Enterprises?
ericrwalker is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 03:42 PM   #5
arn
macrumors god
 
arn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Send a message via AIM to arn
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrldwzrd89 View Post
For a site as heavily used as this one... it would be a shame to see it forced offline by, of all things, the expiration (and impossibility of renewal) of your license to use the vBulletin forum software, due to the annual scheme used with V3.x being LONG since discontinued... heck, the vBulletin folks are about to unveil version 5 final, and we're still on 3.8.

That being said, if the license is NOT an issue at this time, there have been significant changes to vBulletin's features (we don't use the Member List, which is gone completely in vB5 and is not going to be reinstated, according to the developers) that will need to be taken into careful consideration if an upgrade is attempted.
We have a lifetime license. So we can keep using 3.x for as long as we like.

vBulletin 4.x had issues. And there were potential performance issues moving to it. There weren't a ton of must-have features in 4, so we skipped it. A lot of the new features were in areas we didn't need (CMS, Blog). 3.x has been reasonably stable over time, and has the core features that we need.

vBulletin 5.x is a major departure from the traditional forum setup. I understand why they went this direction, and have thought myself that forums do need to evolve in a similar direction. However, their beta implementation of it right now seems poor. It's slow to load and still very much in beta. http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/

My current plans are to stick with vb3 and add additional customizations to it using our own developers. If we pursue that route, we will never upgrade to vB 4, 5 and beyond.

arn
arn is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 05:03 PM   #6
Comeagain?
macrumors 68020
 
Comeagain?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Spokane, WA
Even if the vB3 license expires, with the vB5 (and 4) licenses, you could download and use almost any version, even vB2.

vB5 is not ready for a system of this scale. It may work well for smaller community, but not one of this scale. It is too slow, missing too many features, and is currently focused less on in depth discussion, and more on sharing things like pictures, with small amounts of text. And who would want to spend the time to port so many features and additions to an almost complete rewrite of software, over two generations?

(Although I do like where vB4.2+ is going.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericrwalker View Post
Any chance you work for Jelsoft Enterprises?
You mean Internet Brands?
__________________
Questions? MRoogle it!
Current iOS 8 "All the little things!"
MR Scavenger Score: 1
Comeagain? is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 05:47 PM   #7
MacNut
macrumors P6
 
MacNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Quote:
Originally Posted by arn View Post
We have a lifetime license. So we can keep using 3.x for as long as we like.

vBulletin 4.x had issues. And there were potential performance issues moving to it. There weren't a ton of must-have features in 4, so we skipped it. A lot of the new features were in areas we didn't need (CMS, Blog). 3.x has been reasonably stable over time, and has the core features that we need.

vBulletin 5.x is a major departure from the traditional forum setup. I understand why they went this direction, and have thought myself that forums do need to evolve in a similar direction. However, their beta implementation of it right now seems poor. It's slow to load and still very much in beta. http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/

My current plans are to stick with vb3 and add additional customizations to it using our own developers. If we pursue that route, we will never upgrade to vB 4, 5 and beyond.

arn
Would you ever consider dumping vB altogether for another forum software?
MacNut is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 07:18 PM   #8
arn
macrumors god
 
arn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Send a message via AIM to arn
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNut View Post
Would you ever consider dumping vB altogether for another forum software?
I'd consider it, especially as we are dead-ended. Options are limited, however. And migrating a forum this size isn't a quick/easy task.

From my casual looking around, it seems IPB might be the only real viable alternative, but I haven't looked into details of limitations and issues of it.

If we dive headlong into customizing our install, though it would make it harder to move elsewhere.

arn
arn is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 07:21 PM   #9
BigPrince
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
I think about this nightly, I am glad others share in this concern.
BigPrince is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 07:30 PM   #10
MacNut
macrumors P6
 
MacNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Quote:
Originally Posted by arn View Post
I'd consider it, especially as we are dead-ended. Options are limited, however. And migrating a forum this size isn't a quick/easy task.

From my casual looking around, it seems IPB might be the only real viable alternative, but I haven't looked into details of limitations and issues of it.

If we dive headlong into customizing our install, though it would make it harder to move elsewhere.

arn
Have you looked into Simple Machines.
MacNut is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 07:32 PM   #11
ericrwalker
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albany, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comeagain? View Post
You mean Internet Brands?

You're right, it looks like jelsoft and vbulletin both fall under Internet brands.


It does seem like an odd question by the OP.
ericrwalker is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 09:01 PM   #12
arn
macrumors god
 
arn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Send a message via AIM to arn
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNut View Post
Have you looked into Simple Machines.
nah, just googled it a bit. not sure if it seems as mature as IPB (not that that's an imminent move anyway).

arn
arn is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 09:24 PM   #13
r.j.s
Moderator emeritus
 
r.j.s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fort Knox
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNut View Post
Have you looked into Simple Machines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arn View Post
nah, just googled it a bit. not sure if it seems as mature as IPB (not that that's an imminent move anyway).

arn
I'm an admin on another forum that uses SMF, and it isn't nearly as feature-packed as vB. I think we'd have a hard time making it work here, especially with the amount of tweaks there are to the basic vB.
r.j.s is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 09:53 PM   #14
Comeagain?
macrumors 68020
 
Comeagain?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Spokane, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by r.j.s View Post
I'm an admin on another forum that uses SMF, and it isn't nearly as feature-packed as vB. I think we'd have a hard time making it work here, especially with the amount of tweaks there are to the basic vB.
What's the speed like? I've never actually seen or used a fast SMF forum.
__________________
Questions? MRoogle it!
Current iOS 8 "All the little things!"
MR Scavenger Score: 1
Comeagain? is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 10:04 PM   #15
r.j.s
Moderator emeritus
 
r.j.s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fort Knox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comeagain? View Post
What's the speed like? I've never actually seen or used a fast SMF forum.
Depends on the server, really. We (the SMF forum) have a single server for the website and forum and a much smaller user base, so it is quick, but still slower than here.
r.j.s is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 10:10 PM   #16
AlphaDogg
macrumors 68040
 
AlphaDogg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Denver, CO
I use another vBulletin forum frequently, which has vBulletin 4.0.8. I really like the quick response feature. I also like that it lets me do command+b for bold, or command+i for italics, etc. In many ways, I think 4.0.8 is superior to the version that we have here.
__________________
15" 2.66GHz C2D uMBP | 13" 2.4GHz i5 MBP 500GB | '07 MacBook
iPhone 5 32GB | iPhone 3GS 8GB | iPhone 8GB
אני רוצה לעשות עליה לישראל
AlphaDogg is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2012, 10:12 PM   #17
dukebound85
macrumors P6
 
dukebound85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 5045 feet above sea level
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDogg View Post
I use another vBulletin forum frequently, which has vBulletin 4.0.8. I really like the quick response feature. I also like that it lets me do command+b for bold, or command+i for italics, etc. In many ways, I think 4.0.8 is superior to the version that we have here.
I do like the quick reply feature seen on other forums. IS there a reason that is not implemented here? or is that something vb 3.x can't be tweaked for?
dukebound85 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 2, 2012, 12:07 AM   #18
arn
macrumors god
 
arn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Send a message via AIM to arn
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDogg View Post
I use another vBulletin forum frequently, which has vBulletin 4.0.8. I really like the quick response feature. I also like that it lets me do command+b for bold, or command+i for italics, etc. In many ways, I think 4.0.8 is superior to the version that we have here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
I do like the quick reply feature seen on other forums. IS there a reason that is not implemented here? or is that something vb 3.x can't be tweaked for?
Quick Reply is a feature in 3.x. We just never turned it on. The main reason for the hesitation was always due to the way it handled threading -- and I had long thought we'd try to do something more useful with threading.

arn
arn is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 2, 2012, 04:47 AM   #19
BigPrince
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
So hypothetically if there was a move, what are some general changes the end user would see?
BigPrince is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 2, 2012, 06:28 AM   #20
wrldwzrd89
Thread Starter
macrumors G4
 
wrldwzrd89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Solon, OH
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPrince View Post
So hypothetically if there was a move, what are some general changes the end user would see?
First of all, the default skin's totally different. That change would be noticed by everyone right away, regardless of whether the move is to v4 or v5. Secondly, if the administrator chose to enable them, users would notice blog/CMS-like features in the forums. Finally, they'd notice missing features, such as the Member List being completely gone.
__________________
iMac Intel (Rev H, 27"), 1TB HDD, 16GB RAM, 10.8.4
wrldwzrd89 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 2, 2012, 12:12 PM   #21
Comeagain?
macrumors 68020
 
Comeagain?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Spokane, WA
Go play with it.

vB4 "demo" - http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum.php
vB5 "demo" - http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/

the vB5 demo is still only a beta, so it isn't very fast. The final version will be much faster.

With enough work, they could actually get vB4 to look almost exactly like this one. vB5 is a little more difficult.
__________________
Questions? MRoogle it!
Current iOS 8 "All the little things!"
MR Scavenger Score: 1
Comeagain? is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 2, 2012, 04:22 PM   #22
alphaod
macrumors Core
 
alphaod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 上海 (Shanghai)
vBulletin offered a perpetual license for version 3.8; I'm sort of surprised MR didn't opt for the removal of branding. Then people won't know what version MR is actually on.
__________________
Mac Pro | iMac | Mac mini | MacBook Pro | MacBook Air | iPad | iPhone | iPod
alphaod is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 2, 2012, 05:55 PM   #23
BigPrince
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrldwzrd89 View Post
First of all, the default skin's totally different. That change would be noticed by everyone right away, regardless of whether the move is to v4 or v5. Secondly, if the administrator chose to enable them, users would notice blog/CMS-like features in the forums. Finally, they'd notice missing features, such as the Member List being completely gone.

Would it look like a forum and No members list? WTF!
BigPrince is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 2, 2012, 07:34 PM   #24
arn
macrumors god
 
arn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Send a message via AIM to arn
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaod View Post
vBulletin offered a perpetual license for version 3.8; I'm sort of surprised MR didn't opt for the removal of branding. Then people won't know what version MR is actually on.
You can remove the version number either way. I just never have.

arn
arn is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 4, 2012, 01:44 AM   #25
snowleopard48
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by arn View Post
We have a lifetime license. So we can keep using 3.x for as long as we like.

vBulletin 4.x had issues. And there were potential performance issues moving to it. There weren't a ton of must-have features in 4, so we skipped it. A lot of the new features were in areas we didn't need (CMS, Blog). 3.x has been reasonably stable over time, and has the core features that we need.

vBulletin 5.x is a major departure from the traditional forum setup. I understand why they went this direction, and have thought myself that forums do need to evolve in a similar direction. However, their beta implementation of it right now seems poor. It's slow to load and still very much in beta. http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/

My current plans are to stick with vb3 and add additional customizations to it using our own developers. If we pursue that route, we will never upgrade to vB 4, 5 and beyond.

arn
Well that's a little sad. vB3 is ugly and old and will always be difficult to customise. I know many, many forums that use vB4 and it's fast and has no issues at all. Sure, skip vB4. But at least have a look at vB5. Please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaod View Post
vBulletin offered a perpetual license for version 3.8; I'm sort of surprised MR didn't opt for the removal of branding. Then people won't know what version MR is actually on.
Unfortunately that wouldn't work. It's easy to tell when a forum is running software that was discontinued over 2 years ago.

I understand the issues that you face with upgrading, but at least have a think about it. It's awful to be stuck in the past, and I just want the best for MR.
__________________
- snowleopard48

Last edited by snowleopard48; Oct 4, 2012 at 02:41 AM.
snowleopard48 is offline   1 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Site and Forum Feedback

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Resolved: vBulletin database error encountered ardchoille42 Site and Forum Feedback 2 Feb 7, 2014 02:30 AM
Minor vBulletin Update arn Site and Forum Feedback 4 Jul 23, 2013 09:40 AM
Upgrade to vBulletin Connect 5? TouchArchive Site and Forum Feedback 16 Apr 23, 2013 12:19 PM
Forum vBulletin bugs? justperry Site and Forum Feedback 3 Jan 19, 2013 09:53 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:46 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC