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Old Oct 2, 2012, 02:47 PM   #26
mdelvecchio
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Originally Posted by CBJammin103 View Post
It's nice that the iPhone 5 camera is solid, but I don't see how this is a paradigm shift any more than the previous iPhone cameras.
you misunderstood the quote. they arent saying the iphone5's camera is a paradigm shift. theyre clearly referring to casual digital photography -- that the ease of shooting and connected nature of quality mobile cameras are forcing the rest of the non-mobile photography industry to adapt. thats the shift.

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I WILL say that the iPhone has totally replaced a point-n-shoot for my purposes.
exactly. thats the point.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 02:59 PM   #27
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Given the "purple" issue if I had not sold my 4S I would have gone back to it. It is not a matter of simply avoiding pointing directly at the sun, etc. Go try to take photos at a football game at an indoor stadium and try not to have purple all over your photos.
Is that a problem with every iPhone 5 or just those with a purple sapphire lens? I suspect that the sapphire lens may get dropped next year or even earlier if it's the cause of the purple flare near bright light sources. I'm surprised Apple didn't pick this up earlier. I mean, people do take photos of sunsets, cars with headlights on at night, indoor stadiums with strong lights, outdoors with the sun just out of frame, etc.

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Originally Posted by porky View Post
I have a 4s and ordered the iPhone 5 for the better camera ... Especially in low light.
The next iPhone will probably get Sony's recently announced 13MP Exmor RS sensor. You'll probably have an even better reason to upgrade a year from now if the camera is your main concern...that and the purple lens flare if it irritates you.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 03:20 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by dampfnudel View Post
\
The next iPhone will probably get Sony's recently announced 13MP Exmor RS sensor. You'll probably have an even better reason to upgrade a year from now if the camera is your main concern.
YEAHHHH 13MP!!!! That will fix everything!!!!! Sigh...... Increasing the MP count will almost certainly make the image quality worse as if you don't know what noise is now, you certainly will then. Squeezing even current MP counts on tiny sensors is pointless... I doubt the level of detail at 13mp can even be resolved given many cell camera today use extremely cheap optics, such as plastic instead of glass parts.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 03:31 PM   #29
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Maps reason to upgrade

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Originally Posted by jrfive0 View Post
Still doesn't seem reason enough to upgrade from the 4s.....
If you are a driver, MAPS alone is reason enough to upgrade. The old Google mapping was unusable for a driver- limited screen info and no voice or turn by turn. Maps has all that - Siri integration, great turn-by[turn voice instructions and easily readable directions for drivers.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 04:36 PM   #30
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Ok, I don't get DSLRs anymore. I firmly believe they are fundamentally obsolete.
OK. Well, a lot of professional photographers might disagree with you, along with all the major manufacturers of cameras.

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The "viewfinder" on an iPhone shows exactly what the final captured image is going to be (modulo resolution), because it is displaying exactly what the CCD is capturing. It's, in fact, better than a traditional SLR, because you don't have to hold the camera up to your eye to see through the lens!
Again, a lot of people who make their living taking photographs specifically WANT a viewfinder because it helps with composition and is one less source of battery drain. And if you're seriously pretending the iPhone is a better camera than, say, a high-end Canon or Nikon DSLR (which, incidentally, also have live-view LCDs on the back) -- well, you're fooling yourself.

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So if a DSLR is named that because it retains the mirror-prism-viewfinder system, then that is a ridiculous anachronism that does nothing but raise the price needlessly.
There are new camera systems (micro 4/3s, for example) that don't rely on a flip-up mirror. But the DSLR seems to be a proven form factor that works for a lot of professionals.

Also, you fail to realize that legacy lenses and accessories are a major investment for photographers and nobody's going to just throw all that stuff away because it's supposedly "obsolete".
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 04:43 PM   #31
UnfetteredMind
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Optical Zoom

The one thing I miss from my P&S camera when I only have the iPhone is the 10x optical zoom. I don't expect a smartphone to ever have this feature.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 05:12 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by UnfetteredMind View Post
The one thing I miss from my P&S camera when I only have the iPhone is the 10x optical zoom. I don't expect a smartphone to ever have this feature.
That's what I miss the most, especially for video shooting. Other than that, I'm quite happy with the results I've been getting from my iPhone 4. I can't wait to get an iPhone 5 -- except for the purple haze. Maybe it's a commemorative phone for Jimi Hendrix ... or Prince.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 05:50 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by nickn View Post
YEAHHHH 13MP!!!! That will fix everything!!!!! Sigh...... Increasing the MP count will almost certainly make the image quality worse as if you don't know what noise is now, you certainly will then. Squeezing even current MP counts on tiny sensors is pointless... I doubt the level of detail at 13mp can even be resolved given many cell camera today use extremely cheap optics, such as plastic instead of glass parts.
I don't think Apple would add a camera that actually shows degradation of the image quality compared to the previous camera. In other words, they and SONY will find a way to keep noise to a minimum while upping the MP count and improving image quality. The noise barrier can be broken, just ask Nokia.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 06:54 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by John.B View Post
Appreciation for good photography automatically makes someone a snob?
Guess I came off a little snarky - maybe I should have chosen other words. I freelance as a hobby for small local businesses and individuals, so I'm not knocking photography or photographers!

I guess I see way too many moms and dads who would be better off using their iPhone instead of the DSLR they tote around.

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Originally Posted by nostaws
Did you come up with that all on your own? Thanks, Chase. LOL.
I was told it by a friend but I've not read that book. Perhaps should do some more reading.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 07:18 PM   #35
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Thumbs down

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Originally Posted by nsayer View Post
ok, i don't get dslrs anymore. I firmly believe they are fundamentally obsolete.
rotflmao
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 07:54 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by CBJammin103 View Post
Guess I came off a little snarky - maybe I should have chosen other words. I freelance as a hobby for small local businesses and individuals, so I'm not knocking photography or photographers!

I guess I see way to many moms and dads who would be better off using their iPhone instead of the DSLR they tote around.
+1!

When I took the kids on vacation this summer, I gave them each their own P&S and took my iPhone. It was a nice switch not to have to fuss with a dSLR (or two, plus lenses! LOL!) and I felt I got to be a lot more "in the moment" than I do when I'm looking at everything through the viewfinder.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 08:33 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by nsayer View Post
Ok, I don't get DSLRs anymore. I firmly believe they are fundamentally obsolete.

The "viewfinder" on an iPhone shows exactly what the final captured image is going to be (modulo resolution), because it is displaying exactly what the CCD is capturing. It's, in fact, better than a traditional SLR, because you don't have to hold the camera up to your eye to see through the lens!
1. To some extent this is true, though your ultimate conclusion is insane. In the next several years, after it has been perfected in consumer models, DSLR bodies will likely start to shift over to APS-C size mirrorless sensors. Mid to high end DSLR models will likely remain with the "flip" type shutters for longer though, as for pros, mirrorless presently has to many disadvantages.

2. While it seems many consumers would rather use the screen for composition, I know for a fact anyone who knows what they are doing uses their viewfinder. A real viewfinder just doesn't even compare to a screen based system. For example, I have yet to use any screen that had an acceptable frame rate when moving the camera back and forth quickly. That is totally unacceptable to have serious lag when attempting to simply frame something...


Quote:
Originally Posted by dampfnudel View Post
I don't think Apple would add a camera that actually shows degradation of the image quality compared to the previous camera.
Apple doesn't care. For example, look at the extreme POS abomination of a camera they included in the iPod Touch 4th gen and iPad 2. Frankly, I am quite surprised they even bothered. Ironically, while I was just bashing sensors for having too high of a megapixel count, I will also bash that POS for having to low of a MP count, at just an insane .7 MP. For once in perhaps forever, photos straight from the camera could hardly be shown 1X1 on the phone screen, as they are native 960x720, yes in 2010, let alone my 1920X1080 computer monitor. Additionally, as expected, image quality is perhaps the worst of any digital post 2005 camera in every possible way.

Last edited by nickn; Oct 2, 2012 at 08:44 PM.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 09:02 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by nostaws View Post
Did you come up with that all on your own? Thanks, Chase. LOL.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Best-Camer.../dp/0321684788
That phrase has been around a lot longer than that book has. But the concept is absolutely valid.

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Originally Posted by nsayer View Post
Ok, I don't get DSLRs anymore. I firmly believe they are fundamentally obsolete.
Given the argument you just gave, it's pretty obvious you never really "got" SLRs. Being able to exactly compose the shot in the viewfinder is certainly one benefit of the SLR - but not the primary one.

But the technology is such that, for the majority of people, there is no effective need for a dSLR simply because they aren't taking advantage of its abilities. That's not new to digital photography, though. Really it's just the continuation of a trend that started half a century ago when easy-to-use, small, inexpensive cartridge-based film cameras became available.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 09:08 PM   #39
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Post Tech companies have narrow technological focus

Note his para:

"Already, we're seeing mainstream camera manufacturers scrabbling to add connectivity to their products, and it's not just desperation that's making them do it. If the iPhone, and devices like it, have had a transformative effect on the industry it's because they've had a transformative effect on peoples' expectations of cameras, and photography. And the industry is doing what it always does - moving to fulfill a need."

You see that's why I find complete tech industries (example camera industry here) completely lethargic or even apathetic towards understanding and fulfilling what consumers want. They are FORCED to bring about these changes involving better connectivity etc because consumers expectations have been modified for those options by smartphone industry.

They would never do it on their own. Why do it if consumer is anyway paying them money for just incremental spec improvements. Why go the extra step of giving him a more liberating experience.

Forget about smartphones a bit- imagine they were not invented.

Now if a company like apple were to make a camera and:
1. disrupt the landscape by integrating great social, web-integration, and sharing options,
2. thereby creating excitement amongst consumers,
3. giving people they never knew they wanted, without doing any market research,

You no what industry folks or other tech folks and media will say abou this company:
1. It hasn't invented anything
2. All these technologies were already present
3. They have just put a good looking interface
4. It's just marketing, gimmick!

There should be more value for companies which go beyond their narrow focus on technology itself. Companies where people care about first imagining and then creating and giving consumers what they could really want and enjoy. These companies I would value more.

Such companies won't do technology for sake of it, but understand ultimately technology has to add value to human lives. And from looking at various companies in tech world it seems there are hardly any companies which have this ideological perspective guiding their choices and direction.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 09:25 PM   #40
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The keyword that stands out for me is "snapshot".

That's what the iPhone camera does well. It's also an aspect of the phone that draws in a huge number of female customers that otherwise wouldn't seek out a "smartphone".

Several years ago Kodak did a study, it revealed how women are the primary picture taker of the family photos, the number was simply amazing, much higher than many may realize. While I expected it to be high, I was truly surprised at the astronomical number.

Taking into consideration the ease of use, along with iTunes it's no wonder iPhones are so popular.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 10:07 PM   #41
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"Don't shoot into the light, stop where you are, don't even look at it!"

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Old Oct 2, 2012, 10:58 PM   #42
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Comparing a mobile phone camera to a DSLR is like comparing a Semi truck with a Prius.

Yeah, they both have doors, wheels, engines, and can get you places. But they're just tools, and made for completely different jobs.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 11:10 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by jrfive0 View Post
Still doesn't seem reason enough to upgrade from the 4s.....
Oh dude. If I was stuck using big clunk iPhone 4S I would die. No comparison



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Old Oct 2, 2012, 11:39 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by jrfive0 View Post

Still doesn't seem reason enough to upgrade from the 4s.....
Very true.

Canon and Nikon release a dozen new cameras every year... but you don't have to buy those either.

Hell... Ford makes new cars every year too.

Perhaps you don't have to buy new stuff every time a new model is released?
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 02:07 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Mundty View Post
The thing about using a DSLR is they've come so far down in price, that practically anyone can own one now.
Coming down in price is one thing, coming down in size is another. The principle reason for not using a DSLR is having to lug the damn thing around with you everywhere.

A professional or hobbyist photographer (for whom the kit itself is often more important than the picture) will continue to use them, but they're simply not practical for *anyone* else for this reason alone.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 04:43 AM   #46
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OK. Well, a lot of professional photographers might disagree with you, along with all the major manufacturers of cameras.

Again, a lot of people who make their living taking photographs specifically WANT a viewfinder because it helps with composition and is one less source of battery drain. And if you're seriously pretending the iPhone is a better camera than, say, a high-end Canon or Nikon DSLR (which, incidentally, also have live-view LCDs on the back) -- well, you're fooling yourself.

There are new camera systems (micro 4/3s, for example) that don't rely on a flip-up mirror. But the DSLR seems to be a proven form factor that works for a lot of professionals.

Also, you fail to realize that legacy lenses and accessories are a major investment for photographers and nobody's going to just throw all that stuff away because it's supposedly "obsolete".
I think you missed the actual point of his post. He's saying the SLR system is obsolete, the actual bouncing back and forth of the mirror, not the camera's form factor, lenses, accessories, etc.

I tend to agree, there's pretty much no reason need to look into the viewfinder anymore. Sure it's a tad quicker, but then you could just do what the mirrorless cameras are doing now- putting a tiny viewfinder at the top.

Then again, I could be wrong. Anyway, I love my Canon EOS, but it saddens me that the first thing to go will be the part that moves most... the mirror, the "SLR".
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 05:30 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by CBJammin103 View Post
For the photography snobs: The best camera is the one you have with you, and any shot you take is better than one you didn't.
ITA - a smartphone camera will probably never replace a full blown DSLR but the compact camera makers are in real trouble, why carry around a camera which is no better than the smartphone you will almost always have on you?

Ditto for video, full professional equipment will always have a place but do you need a compact handycam when you can now shoot full HD on you smartphone and upload it to YouTube without going home?

I only use my CompactSLR when I need a better shot (compared to my 3Gs) but don't use it much and will use it even less when I get my new iPhone soon.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 05:50 AM   #48
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It will never replace a point and shoot for those who are photographers and appreciate the control it offers and who prefer to get it right in camera, avoiding Photoshop image repair; - zoom lens with actual range change, not in software, for superior quality pixels is but one element. Exposure compensation is another; sufficient grip to handle landscape and portrait orientation a third; on and on.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 06:20 AM   #49
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Ok, I don't get DSLRs anymore. I firmly believe they are fundamentally obsolete.
There are some things that are quite difficult to photograph with the iPhone, but are supremely easy to photograph with any DSLR.

But apart from the obvious massive image quality differences, the major difference is the form factor. The iPhone has an awkward shape for camera use, while a modern DSLR is honed to be the optimum shape and is designed for easy use, especially with respect to changing functions in a hurry.

The lovely images we enjoyed from places like the London Olympics just aren't possible with smart phone cameras. These are the sort of images coming from cameras like the Nikon D4 and the Nikkor 800mm F/5.6 lens. (not released to the general public yet).

But I'm just a relative hack who just takes little happy snaps at work so probably the DSLR is fundamentally obsolete as you've said.

Some pro photographers are using cameras like Nikon P7000 for situations where a more discreet camera is required, or they are using stuff like the old D70 in dangerous situations where more expensive equipment can't be risked. One example might be the western photographer who takes a lot of shots in Afghanistan and dresses like the locals, looks like the locals and even speaks the local language. He takes a lower end camera under his robes, and even carries a prayer mat. Some of you here in the industry will know who I'm talking about. In that case, a flashy, fancy iPhone is going to attract attention.

DSLR cameras have had connectivity options for a while that allowed transmission of images back to "home base" (for want of a better term) in those cases where the images were urgently needed. Another example of similar uses is remote firing of multiple cameras or flashes. Smart phone cameras aren't flexible enough yet. Though they could take a big step forward if it were possible to ally them with external flashes. Such a thing might even be a way for the phone makers to get customers to part with more money, after they've just spent near A$1000 on their very smart looking new slate and black object of desire.

Smart phone cameras have their uses, but broadly speaking the DSLR as a camera on the whole isn't obsolete and won't be, while the better quality point-and-shoot bridging cameras will also not become obsolete because of their superior shape which makes them easier to hold.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 07:35 AM   #50
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Worth for upgrading

This is worth upgrading and certainly its well written...Coming down in price is one thing, coming down in size is another. The principle reason for not using a DSLR is having to lug the damn thing around with you everywhere.
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