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Any additional news on the rumored 15" rMBP with upgraded heat dissipation...
- Thread starter thomj
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Not to be rude but what do you expect ?
It's not built for gaming in mind it's cooling system is quite good for a Mac.
"Gaming Laptops" are a joke and always have been it's a form factor that does not suit the application, this of course can change in time with lower TDP parts and improved cooling systems.
I don't think it's crazy to expect a computer to keep itself cool without constant down throttling and hair dryer noises. Otherwise what is the application of a £2000+ laptop? To browse facebook and Mac rumours and look cool? Your post suggests that the user is at fault for trying to use his computer for something that it should be able to handle. If it cannot, then Apple engineers shouldn't be cramming quad core CPUs in there, should they? Sorry, but this just does not fly with me.
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If this is true, then what do us early adaptors do? Accept the fact that finally Apple is admitting their obsession with thin is too ahead of what engineering is able to do in terms of defeating the laws of thermodynamics? Do we simply keep suffering in silence?
Apple didn't advertise the MBP to be a gaming laptop. Don't assume that Mac is only capable of browsing facebook and MacRumors cause Mac has been well known for many other things except gaming.
I play Diablo and CS with my 13'' MBP and it is able to 'handle' it but it just gets hot which is perfectly normal. The OP didn't say his MBP can't handle the game, he said it gets hot.
If you want gaming laptop then look at Alienware. They advertise it as gaming laptop. Though i won't consider those being 'portable' or it won't get hot.
I guess you just have to learn as I have done over the years that you should never, ever buy a Revision A Apple product
I'm also waiting with anticipation for that rumored revised 15' Retina. I'm still within 14 days so I could return my current one if there is a big chance of an update soon. So far the only source of that rumor is some kid's from China uncle
I am not sure why you're stuck on gaming. I use my rMBP with FCP X. This is one of the uses clearly advertised by Apple. The performance is below acceptable. What should I be using it for? Apple says it's ok for FCP X?
Sorry, but at some point one must say enough of the apologist stuff. The rMBP cannot do all of the things advertised, because it heats up so quickly and then it throttles itself down. It also sounds loud enough for my wife to comment even though she is 3 metres away, despite the magical fans. The cooling system simply cannot handle a sustained load on the GPU/CPU. There is no arguing against it or trying to apologise for it.
Maybe I am missing something, but you should inform Apple to immediately remove all games from the Mac App Store, because their latest computers are not designed for them.
If it can do all that, then surely it should be able to eat a simple game for breakfast?
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I guess you just have to learn as I have done over the years that you should never, ever buy a Revision A Apple product
Indeed. Unfortunately after the disappointment of no new Mac Pro, I still needed a computer powerful enough for my needs and wanted to buy something in this tax year.
I have been playing games on the rMBP since the moment I got it and I never experienced any throttling or excessive heat buildup. My old MBP produced way more heat. A better cooling system is always good of course, but from my experience, the current design is already adequate.
I respectfully have to disagree. We've all seen (and some of us have made) the posts about the TDP of the mobile CPUs and so forth and that it will shutdown if it gets too hot. That's not the point. Running something at just below the thermal limit is not good. If you've never experienced throttling then you've never put your MBP under a constant load, for example rendering in FCP X or encoding. It happens. To deny that it's happening sends a false message to other readers. The fact of the matter is that once the MBP is running at around 90 degrees Celsius plus, then it's throttling down to save itself. Never mind how it sounds. A better cooling solution is needed, especially given Apple's obsessions with making things thinner and trying to wave a middle finger at the laws of thermodynamics.
Sounds reasonable. But then again, my experience is a different one. I haven't been monitoring my temperatures, but after several hours of constant gaming (which could be considered a constant load), there was no throttling (i.e. the framerates stayed constant). It is true though that I haven't put the machine under constant CPU load aside some statistical simulations which weren't long enough to be taken into account. So it may entirely be that encoding and gaming have different effects. My message is not affected by this in any way though: personally, I never observed any overheating with my rMBP.
Now, please don't get me wrong: I am far from being a blind Apple apostle who praises all their products. And there are some problems with my machine which annoy me (as the ridiculously slow wake up from sleep). But overheating is clearly not one of them.
The only strenuous thing I use the laptop for is gaming, and for that purpose I have no complaints.
Any fan noise is muffled by the game audio, and no part of the laptop in contact with my skin heats up to uncomfortable levels.
I can understand that if you're just rendering stuff in FCP X then then the fan noise is probably a lot more noticeable without background audio, but 3 meters isn't exactly far and its not like you can't move to a different room until it's done working (unlike a desktop).
Unless you have a faulty cooling system, throttling shouldn't be happening at all under only CPU heavy tasks, and for gaming; the minor GPU throttling can be eliminated under windows very simply by disabling the CPU turbo (the cpu is so ridiculously over powered for games you could probably under clock it and not impact frame rate in a meaningful way).
You would be hard pressed to find any other laptop, even suitcase sized DTRs which pack more CPU processing power, the next jump is a workstation class desktop with hexcore/octocore xeno class CPUs, and you're certainly going to pay through the nose for them.
Any fan noise is muffled by the game audio, and no part of the laptop in contact with my skin heats up to uncomfortable levels.
I can understand that if you're just rendering stuff in FCP X then then the fan noise is probably a lot more noticeable without background audio, but 3 meters isn't exactly far and its not like you can't move to a different room until it's done working (unlike a desktop).
Unless you have a faulty cooling system, throttling shouldn't be happening at all under only CPU heavy tasks, and for gaming; the minor GPU throttling can be eliminated under windows very simply by disabling the CPU turbo (the cpu is so ridiculously over powered for games you could probably under clock it and not impact frame rate in a meaningful way).
You would be hard pressed to find any other laptop, even suitcase sized DTRs which pack more CPU processing power, the next jump is a workstation class desktop with hexcore/octocore xeno class CPUs, and you're certainly going to pay through the nose for them.
Browsing Facebook and gaming are two completely different workloads altogether. If Apple marketed the machine as quiet when you play enthusiast games on it then he'd have a legitimate grovel.
I never even hear the fans on this thing when I'm doing any sort of web browsing, music production in ableton or general document editing. Only time I hear the fans is under Windows in games such as Crysis 2, BF3, NFS HP.
I think that's perfectly acceptable there isn't a gaming laptop on the planet that is quiet under heavy gaming loads. (Please correct me so i can look at buying it)
I am not bothered about the noise. I am bothered about the thermal efficiency of the rMBP (and it's lack thereof) and I am bothered about the throttling due to his lack of thermal efficiency.
I am not going to deny another person's experience, but mine has been great. I've been playing many games on my rMBP, and while it does cause the fans to spin up, heat has never been an issue. I don't experience any throttling, and shut down due to heat. I have a Speck case on and it's not on any type stand or riser and again heat is not an issue.
Obviously I have no proof of this or can explain why, but numerous owner feedback leads me to believe that even with the same specs, not all rMBPs are created equally.
Obviously I have no proof of this or can explain why, but numerous owner feedback leads me to believe that even with the same specs, not all rMBPs are created equally.
The heating "problem" is due to the physical size of the cooling components. Heatsinks operate by increasing surface area for air to flow over. In such a small form-factor, the heatsink can only be so large.
It comes down to picking the right tool for the job. If your priority is gaming, the MacBook may not be the best platform.
It comes down to picking the right tool for the job. If your priority is gaming, the MacBook may not be the best platform.
I share the same opinion. The ONLY issue with my rMBP is Safari related, crashing sometimes. I have been working and gaming really fine, Steam and/or Bootcamp, doesn't matter, still amazing after all updates.
Edit: OP, you realise this is aluminium and not wood crafted right? I'm not trying to be rude, don't get me wrong but think about it.
OP is returning his MBP because of the heat from gaming. Why wouldn't I be talking about gaming machine?
You said MBP couldn't handle it, which is not true. It's perfectly normal to have heat during gaming. It's not like the machine hangs or freezes.
It is perfectly normal that the fan turns on under heavy usage and 3 meters isn't very far away.
Maybe I am missing something, but you should inform Apple to immediately remove all games from the Mac App Store, because their latest computers are not designed for them.
If it can do all that, then surely it should be able to eat a simple game for breakfast?
Yes, you are missing something. When did i say it's not design of it? I said it's not ADVERTISE for it. It was you saying that user should just use it for Facebook and MacRumors, which i was pointing out that it can handle gaming too. As mentioned, having heat under heavy usage is normal. If OP would like to have a better gaming laptop then Alienware is the choice though I don't know if it will be too hot for OP.
Maybe we should tell Apple that "Thin" does not mean awesome if you are straddling the line of not being able to do what you need with it. That means not buying the latest thinnest thing.
They may be out of ideas. Shrinking everything down to fly weight, while it may enlarge their engineers e-peens, may not make the happiest users. Facebookers yes. They are happy with their phones. I'd much rather have a 1" retina that stays at ass kicking speed all the time it is needed. Throttling is good for battery life but when you need power, you need it. Apple has had thermal issues with their entire line of portables from day 1. As soon as they get cooling systems where you want them to be they shrink the damn form factor again setting you back to a 45-65ºC idle temp and getting close to 90ºC in heavy use... Again.
They may be out of ideas. Shrinking everything down to fly weight, while it may enlarge their engineers e-peens, may not make the happiest users. Facebookers yes. They are happy with their phones. I'd much rather have a 1" retina that stays at ass kicking speed all the time it is needed. Throttling is good for battery life but when you need power, you need it. Apple has had thermal issues with their entire line of portables from day 1. As soon as they get cooling systems where you want them to be they shrink the damn form factor again setting you back to a 45-65ºC idle temp and getting close to 90ºC in heavy use... Again.
I think some of the performance issues are due to the latest EFI update. Mine never throttled before that. I find it helps if I manually crank the fans to max speed before starting a game
Anyone who is unsure if their computer is having thermal problems can easily test by using the terminal command outlined here:
http://macfidelity.de/2009/05/10/mac-how-to-stress-test-your-cpu-in-mac-os-x/index.html
Or, from my own experience, doing a Handbrake encode can also use 100% of both real and virtual cores for extended periods of time.
You can then use iStat Pro, or any other temperature monitoring software to ensure your temps stay below 90˚C or so. If temps get above 95˚C, especially consistently, you might consider ways to lower them (Thermal paste re-application, increasing fan RPM, etc). If not, it's fine.
Stressing the GPU at the same time is more difficult, and I don't know of any ways of doing it so directly. Finding a graphics benchmark tool should be enough though.
http://macfidelity.de/2009/05/10/mac-how-to-stress-test-your-cpu-in-mac-os-x/index.html
Or, from my own experience, doing a Handbrake encode can also use 100% of both real and virtual cores for extended periods of time.
You can then use iStat Pro, or any other temperature monitoring software to ensure your temps stay below 90˚C or so. If temps get above 95˚C, especially consistently, you might consider ways to lower them (Thermal paste re-application, increasing fan RPM, etc). If not, it's fine.
Stressing the GPU at the same time is more difficult, and I don't know of any ways of doing it so directly. Finding a graphics benchmark tool should be enough though.
Not really accessible to the average person, but things like Vray (in a future update, not currently, actually) can use the GPU and CPU simultaneously for rendering. I guess you could also run a CPU and graphics benchmark thing simultaneously.
But anyway (not related to your quote, Erasmus) I guess that I should avoid getting one of these if I intend to leave it rendering things for as much as a few days straight? Would it really be any worse than my 2008 non-unibody MacBook Pro?
Thank you! That is exactly the point and the problem here. I wish Apple would take some steps to address this.
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This is all well and good, but all MBPs will run at around 94-99 degrees Celsius if fully stressed, even with the fans on at full speed. So no amount of testing will prove anything. Reapplying the thermal paste and voiding one's warranty is not something that the majority of users want to do, nor should they have to. Is it too much to expect a laptop computer from Apple that does not run at just below T junction? I don't think it is.
