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Old Oct 16, 2012, 01:47 PM   #51
Faux Carnival
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Well, Microsoft's biggest strength is its dominating power in the desktop OS market. When people start switching to Windows 8 on their desktops (which they will because from Oct 26 on, every computer will ship with one) metro apps will be all over the place.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 01:50 PM   #52
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I'd be willing to be Surface is going to be Vista-sized flop -- not on quality like Vista, but being too late to the game.
Yep. Like MS Phone 7 and the Zune and the Kin. They never were innovators, they just have always had a lot of money (made from copying others) which allowed them to do an even better job of copying still others (or acquiring them).

Don't look to MS for anything except a future business school case study.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 01:53 PM   #53
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$500 would of been a great price if....it was the PRO version. I have no idea what apps will be on the RT. Meh. I'll wait until Oct 26th. +
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 01:54 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Chupa Chupa View Post
Fair enough, but I'd be willing to be Surface is going to be Vista-sized flop -- not on quality like Vista, but being too late too the game. You have your anecdotal stories, I have mine.
This market is all of two years old, so it's far from too late for Microsoft to compete in it legitimately. Microsoft makes lots of mistakes, and they've already made some in the tablet market, but they don't give up and they've got the resources to keep coming back until they get it right. It's always a mistake to count Microsoft out of any game where they really want to play.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 01:59 PM   #55
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So wait..... is this keyboard add-on $100 basically? No way.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:00 PM   #56
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I'm so glad you didn't advise Apple in early 2010.
Competiton (or the lack thereof) changes everything.

I'm sure the Zune would have been a success if it launched 2 and a half years before the iPod, even without being cheaper.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:00 PM   #57
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I'm so glad you didn't advise Apple in early 2010.
Very true, but in early 2010 Apple's competition was Windows tablets, which at the time had been a niche market joke for over half a decade.

In late 2012 Microsoft's competition is Apple, which has a two-and-a-half-year, market-dominating head start and is already, by most metrics, impacting Microsoft's actual PC sales with their tablet, Amazon, which has a one-year head start, rock-bottom prices, a media empire behind their product and a massive marketing machine, and Google, which has low prices, variety, and an existing app ecosystem.

I'm not saying that the Surface is a bad idea, or that it won't sell well, or even that this is a bad plan. But this is not 2010 anymore.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:02 PM   #58
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The surface looks nice, especially with a nice price. Unfortunately, apple spoiled me with the ipad retina display. Now I can't look at a non-retina display, especially a tablet, the same way now. Every thing else sucks.
I hope Apple got the message with the iPad mini.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:04 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by CylonGlitch View Post
iPod commercial - playing music and dancing, what you do when you listen to music. Thus representing what the product does, play music.

Surface commercial - following the idea that the commercial shows what the product does... the surface, well, it clicks. Oh and maybe that you can toss, or even kick it.
Don't be so naive / ignorant. The iPod does more than just play music (even back when these commercials were relevant) and the Surface does more than click. The commercials are meant to pump you up and hit you with some branding at the end. Nothing more. It's all about mindshare.

D.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:08 PM   #60
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Hold up one second........120 BUCKS FOR A FRICKEN TOUCH KEYBOARD THAT VIOLATES SO MANY PATENTS........WTF!?!?!??!?!
Name one patent it violates. Just one.

I gotta admit, I'm also kinda disappointed in this. If MS really wanted to push this forward, they would've sold it more at a loss, and raked in the cash later after it carved its own healthy niche in the market.

As is, you're paying just as much for one as an iPad, without any of the perks. The hardware itself might be nice, and MS does have quite a few neat ideas going on with the thing, but the screen resolution isn't even as good as some of the better Android tablets, has barely even a quarter of the app selection of the iPad...

...why would anyone want to pay $500 for this? Office can only take you so far. Maybe later, when it's truly competitive. But now? Eh...

Still holding out hope for the Surface Pro, though.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:10 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
This market is all of two years old, so it's far from too late for Microsoft to compete in it legitimately. Microsoft makes lots of mistakes, and they've already made some in the tablet market, but they don't give up and they've got the resources to keep coming back until they get it right. It's always a mistake to count Microsoft out of any game where they really want to play.
Two years old is a lifetime. Apple has 60% of the tablet market. Android the other 40%. People have $100s and more invested in iOS and Android apps. Not to mention time spent learning and getting comfortable with those OSes. People are not going to be so quick to switch without a compelling reason, and Surface offers none. It's not bad, it's just too late.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:13 PM   #62
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I hope Apple got the message with the iPad mini.
This!
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:14 PM   #63
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Only if you are posing as Steve Balmer for Halloween.
Not nice - it's meal time over here!!
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:16 PM   #64
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Funny how apple minded people are, barely any clear view it seems.

499 is quite competitive, 100 cheaper then asus or apple competition, a OS people know(or will know) and trust .

Big company beind it too push it, enterprise integration.

Should become a third mayor in the tablet world .
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:18 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Chupa Chupa View Post
Two years old is a lifetime. Apple has 60% of the tablet market. Android the other 40%. People have $100s and more invested in iOS and Android apps. Not to mention time spent learning and getting comfortable with those OSes. People are not going to be so quick to switch without a compelling reason, and Surface offers none. It's not bad, it's just too late.
You leave out a couple of important facts. First, the tablet market is still growing by leaps and bounds, while the PC market is stagnant. Microsoft may not have been in the initial wave, but then neither was Google. It is not a settled market. Second, if Microsoft's Windows 8 strategy works (remains to be seen), the market for Surface apps will be legitimate. In fact the availability of Office alone will be enough for some people to consider a Surface.

How soon we forget, if Microsoft seriously wants into a market, they have the ability to throw huge sums at it and wait it out. This is exactly what they did with Xbox.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:19 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Chupa Chupa View Post
Two years old is a lifetime. Apple has 60% of the tablet market. Android the other 40%. People have $100s and more invested in iOS and Android apps. Not to mention time spent learning and getting comfortable with those OSes. People are not going to be so quick to switch without a compelling reason, and Surface offers none. It's not bad, it's just too late.
Two years isn't anything. MS does have a difficult battle ahead of it, but hardly an insurmountable one. Just look at the console industry. They were going against Nintendo and Sony. Both companies who had incredibly popular products that were nearly household names out for far, far longer than two years. And now? MS currently has the best selling console this generation, and looks to continue that lead well into the next.

Though to play devils advocate, the Xbox offered a stable, steady, and well supported online gaming service, something the PS2 and Gamecube didn't have at the time. Plus they had Halo, a nice killer app to help draw attention to the platform. The Surface? Right now, it doesn't offer much over the iPad and various Android tablets besides Office, which, once again, will only take it so far.

Last edited by Renzatic; Oct 16, 2012 at 02:32 PM.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:32 PM   #67
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SWEEEEEEET! Will it come in brown?!
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:34 PM   #68
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Wow... nothing like the various vapor-ware ideas Msoft spewed from their limp undercover development wing.

It's kinda like 1984 Atari meets no-frills tablet maker of 2012. Bring on the bluescreen of repeated failure. You are guaranteed to have a very sluggish experience with their software on that device.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:34 PM   #69
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Parentally

Parentally Microsoft put all there efforts to make the click sound really crisp and crunch so thats all you pay for!!
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:35 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Chupa Chupa View Post
M$ steps on itself once again. Pricing offers no one but the hardest corest M$ fans (are there any left?) a reason to buy. It can't compete with either Android or iOS at this price point. Enterprise already hates Windows 8 and loves iOS. Consumers have long felt trapped by Windows until iOS presented them a post PC option. Anti-Apple folks adopted Android. Who's left to buy Surface?
Your kiddin yourself if you think iOS freed everyone. OS X was a fine alternative. iOS devices consume content, how exactly do you believe it's created ?!? The post pc era is about as realistic and close to being achieved as a global environmental policy....
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:37 PM   #71
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You leave out a couple of important facts. First, the tablet market is still growing by leaps and bounds, while the PC market is stagnant. Microsoft may not have been in the initial wave, but then neither was Google.
Yes, but you make my point for me. Google had something compelling to offer that other search engines were not. Google is also innovative, M$ is mostly "me too" for over a decade. Google is also a "free" service, where consumers can go elsewhere without abandoning purchased product. Consumers have to abandon their purchased library to go Surface.

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Two years isn't anything. MS does have a difficult battle ahead of it, but hardly an insurmountable one. Just look at the console industry.
True, but under that scenario gaining marketshare isn't in M$'s hands. Apple would really have to rest on its laurels like Nintendo and Sony did for it to succeed. That's possible, absolutely, but unlikely in the next couple of years, so Surface Tab will wither on the vine.

Also game console market traditionally reset every 6-8 years when the next gen model comes out giving consumers an exit because their old games won't get the latest features or resolution. During that time marketshare is typically locked in. But new tablets come out each year with no exit strategy for consumers because active devs update, and usually for no additional fee to the consumer.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:37 PM   #72
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I hope Apple got the message with the iPad mini.
Same here, but then again I don't care about small tablets. I like them big because I'm a big boy now at 16

But seriously, I don't like small tablets, and the iPad mini is no exception.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:38 PM   #73
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Mostly true except enterprise loves windows 7 not os anything
The enterprise loves Win 7 for the desktop, sure. But they seem to love iOS (and to a lesser extent Android 4+) on mobile devices. There hasn't been any enterprise love for Microsoft's OSs on mobile devices since before WinMo 6. The shine wore off back when it was called WinCE, and no amount of buffing on Microsoft's part has been able to get it back since.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:43 PM   #74
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Wow, Apple sure stole the tablet thunder today.

I would have also expected the RT version of the Surface to be more competitively priced. $500 seems like a high cost of entry for an unproven product with a limited app ecosystem.
Maybe it will force Microsoft to lower the price in 3 months and give early adopters a $100 Microsoft store credit - after the early adopters whine like children.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 02:43 PM   #75
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Two years isn't anything. MS does have a difficult battle ahead of it, but hardly an insurmountable one. Just look at the console industry. They were going against Nintendo and Sony. Both companies who had incredibly popular products that were nearly household names out for far, far longer than two years. And now? MS currently has the best selling console this generation, and looks to continue that lead well into the next.

Though to play devils advocate, the Xbox offered a stable, steady, and well supported online gaming service, something the PS2 and Gamecube didn't have at the time. Plus they had Halo, a nice killer app to help draw attention to the platform. The Surface? Right now, it doesn't offer much over the iPad and various Android tablets besides Office, which will only take it so far.
You're comparing the gaming console market (a dying market BTW) from 10 years ago to todays computer hardware industry? Back then you could count the XBOX's competitors on one hand. Not the same as tablet choices. I don't think you realize how much faster technology evolves compared to back then. Make no mistake 2 years is a VERY long time in the tech industry. It may not kill the Surface from having some success, but it could make for a much slower adoption rate.
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