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Old Oct 16, 2012, 03:54 PM   #101
k995
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Originally Posted by tbrinkma View Post
If you recall, all the analysts were predicting *starting* prices from - The iPad blew those expectations out of the water, and forced several prospective competitors to restart the designs, by starting at
Inflation and its actually cheaper .

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There were, at release of the first iPad, more iPad-native apps than there appear to be for Surface. It *also* had access to a thriving ecosystem of apps (those pixel-doubled iPhone apps). The experience through the iPhone apps wasn't anything special, but it could still 'get the job done' while you waited for the the iPad version.

That's a fall-back option the Surface doesn't seem to have.
Surface has it desktop "cousin" wich is also capable of metro apps.

350million PC sales worldwide a year, 80% MS (conservative estimate) windows 8 so within the year it would have more user then ios has now, and if I include the unlicensed its a lot faster that high.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 03:55 PM   #102
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Nexus 7/Kindle Fire market is mostly on price + decent library of apps. Surface has neither, and if the iPad mini is competitively priced with the Android 7s, again I don't see where Surface fits. You haven't shown me why Surface is going to catch fire, and who is going to buy it.

Also I didn't say the Surface is "me too." Go back and read my previous posts. I said M$ has be "me too" for the past decade plus, not surface specifically. Surface does differentiate itself from Android and iOS. It's GUI is not "me too," but it's features are still on par with Android and iOS and that's not good enough to gain sway with consumers or enterprise already implementing iOS with their field iPad and iPhones or Android devices and their custom apps.
Business. I'm in a profession where I need regular access to a calendar that my office manages and my secretary updates all the time. Lots of emails. Need to access and edit documents - REALLY edit, not just tap-type in words or click 20 times to change a formatting setting.

I am a long time dual user (ipod/ipad and Android) and find neither to acceptable for serious business use. Sure you can get this app to do this, and another to do that, but they're all novelties and stuff that works in a pinch. It doesnt cut it for serious "this is my job" use.

I need to see my outlook emails/calendar/tasking and work documents the same way my colleagues and secretary is seeing them.

If I can get remote access to my work's file system on this so I can directly access my case files, it's over. I will get this without blinking.

I'll be waiting in the wings to see what level of enterprise integration they are really rolling out here.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 03:56 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
I'm sure Microsoft follows the Apple rumor mill well enough to know that the iPad mini release is very close, so the timing of this announcement was not unfortunate, nor was it a blunder. It was a deliberate effort to avoid being buried, as they might well have been had they'd waited until next week. At this point, Apple hasn't actually announced anything more than a media event, whereas Microsoft actually (and finally) pegged the price and shipping date for the Surface.
However, the Surface announcement probably didn't have its intended effect. Apple's stock jumped when the Surface pricing came out, and then rose again when the media invitations came out. I think the Street thinks that the Surface pricing will cost them sales in the short run.

That said, I think the Surface pricing makes sense. It is slightly lower than the iPad when you consider the bigger storage and included Office (though lower resolution screen), but it is not in cheap Android territory. I can see enterprises getting this. I can also see some consumers seeing this as a good middle ground between Apple and Android.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 03:57 PM   #104
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This thing is just doomed.

DO you know how many people I know who is waiting to buy this?
--> 0

DO you know how many people I know who is waiting to buy an iPad mini?
---> 3
Really? I saw a guy up in News Discussion a couple weeks back talking about how the iPad Mini was doomed because he didn't want one, or know anyone who did.

...I don't know what's going on anymore. I'm so confused by these scientific statistics you people keep throwing around.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:00 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by k995 View Post
Inflation and its actually cheaper .


Surface has it desktop "cousin" wich is also capable of metro apps.

350million PC sales worldwide a year, 80% MS (conservative estimate) windows 8 so within the year it would have more user then ios has now, and if I include the unlicensed its a lot faster that high.
However, the abundance of apps hasn't helped Android tablet sales. Quality means as much as quantity. The Surface has Office in its favor (though oddly, only the Home and Student edition), but for now it lacks lots of other apps.

If they got Outlook and Office right, though, this could be a serious "laptop replacement" for the average exec or even middle-level manager. The iPad is still a little too difficult to use as a sole laptop replacement, given that it lacks a true filesystem for document management. Editing e-mail attachments on the fly is more difficult on the iPad than it should be. That's where the Surface could be compelling.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:08 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Chupa Chupa View Post
Nexus 7/Kindle Fire market is mostly on price + decent library of apps. Surface has neither, and if the iPad mini is competitively priced with the Android 7s, again I don't see where Surface fits. You haven't shown me why Surface is going to catch fire, and who is going to buy it to get it to 30+% marketshare.

Also I didn't say the Surface is "me too." Go back and read my previous posts. I said M$ has be "me too" for the past decade plus, not surface specifically. Surface does differentiate itself from Android and iOS. It's GUI is not "me too," but it's features are still on par with Android and iOS and that's not good enough to gain sway with consumers or enterprise already implementing iOS with their field iPad and iPhones or Android devices and their custom apps.
I never said it was going "catch fire," or anything of the kind, and I certainly never assigned it any market share percentage. What I did do is explain specifically why I thought it wasn't necessarily DOA, as you are so certain it is. It seems you aren't prepared to respond to what I actually said, so it's a little late for you to tell me reread any your posts.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:11 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Geckotek View Post
The iPhone wasn't exactly an original or innovative product either. It was just much more polished and well put together. Heck, it was even missing a ton of features other existing smartphones had. If you want to come up with a reason MS can't succeed in tablets, you'll need to find another one.
Red herring. A logical fallacy.

Your argument is that Apple did something which you say is the same. Fine, I'm not arguing that point about whether Apple committed the same crimes.

BTW, you just argued my point, which is that M$**t is crap at what they do and never innovate. Thanks for proving my point, I win.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:17 PM   #108
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If I can get on SAP with it, then I want one.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:25 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
However, the Surface announcement probably didn't have its intended effect. Apple's stock jumped when the Surface pricing came out, and then rose again when the media invitations came out. I think the Street thinks that the Surface pricing will cost them sales in the short run.

That said, I think the Surface pricing makes sense. It is slightly lower than the iPad when you consider the bigger storage and included Office (though lower resolution screen), but it is not in cheap Android territory. I can see enterprises getting this. I can also see some consumers seeing this as a good middle ground between Apple and Android.
Trying to connect momentary stock price movements to a non-event such as this is a short route to madness. Certainly Microsoft didn't time the announcement to move AAPL one way or another. That doesn't do them any good.

Microsoft always has a market they can exploit. The question is always whether they've figured out how.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:25 PM   #110
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Can't wait. Should be awesome. The fact it has a USB port and Micro SD is icing on the cake. It's also got a high quality screen and chassis and built in 32gb storage at base model. Yet people scoff at the price. Strange.

Considering Win8 ain't even out yet, it's app list is growing. And it's ability to sync everything with your MS account is great. Which means when I log in to it for the first time, it will match my desktop (apps, accounts, colour scheme, layout, preferences, wifi...etc).

People should be open minded , see what happens. Everyone said the iPad would fail as it had no apps and was expensive. Look where it is now. The price will come down in time.

And to those who want a Pro with Core i5 and 4gb ram, 64gb ssd etc. try and find an equivalent device for the strange price you quote of 600 dollars! Best I can do is around that for a cheap ass plastic TN panel piece of garbage. You're looking at Ultrabook or MBa territory here, all in a tablet for factor with the high quality goods. And yet you think it's gonna be price like your average run if the mill cheap laptop? Get real.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:25 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Anti-Lucifer View Post
This thing is just doomed.

DO you know how many people I know who is waiting to buy this?
--> 0

DO you know how many people I know who is waiting to buy an iPad mini?
---> 3
Wow, such in depth market research. Every company in the world should hire you to review your friends desires on what they should and should not bring to market. Then nobody will ever fail!

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Originally Posted by WilliamLondon View Post
Red herring. A logical fallacy.

Your argument is that Apple did something which you say is the same. Fine, I'm not arguing that point about whether Apple committed the same crimes.

BTW, you just argued my point, which is that M$**t is crap at what they do and never innovate. Thanks for proving my point, I win.
Not a red herring, I didn't say anybody copied anything. I simply pointed out that it doesn't take innovation to have a wildly successful product.

Didn't prove your point either. MS has had tons of innovation over the life of their company. In fact the Touch Cover is an example of recent MS innovation.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:33 PM   #112
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Wrong, MS is rolling out support for Surface in SCCM. Can't manage iOS devices with SCCM.

Our company is already planning to buy some to pilot test. I have to co-workers, one a former iOS guy migrated to Android and another a former BB buy recently migrated to Android, chomping at the bit to buy a Surface.

Of course, we just made a VERY public purchase of a lot of iPads already.

Just saying, don't count MS out and I think a lot of your presumptions are incorrect.

Any organization that would consider managing tablets with SCCM is already managing iPads, probably with ICU. MS is late to the party. They gave up that edge.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:33 PM   #113
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Trying to connect momentary stock price movements to a non-event such as this is a short route to madness. Certainly Microsoft didn't time the announcement to move AAPL one way or another. That doesn't do them any good.

Microsoft always has a market they can exploit. The question is always whether they've figured out how.
I'm sure Apple and Microsoft don't evaluate their product releases and press announcements based on daily stock market activity. My point, though, is that the Surface announcement got lost in the excitement of what is essentially Apple's confirmation of the iPad Mini. I'm guessing it is also no accident that Apple is releasing the iPad Mini 3 days before Windows 8 and the Surface are released. It will generate excitement that may overshadow Microsoft's big product release.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:33 PM   #114
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That was the most wonderful commercial that told me absolutely nothing else about the product other than it having a kickstand and an attachable keyboard. It made my day, but I'm still more excited about Apple's event next week.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:35 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by tbrinkma View Post
If you recall, all the analysts were predicting *starting* prices from $800 - $1100. The iPad blew those expectations out of the water, and forced several prospective competitors to restart the designs, by starting at $500.



There were, at release of the first iPad, more iPad-native apps than there appear to be for Surface. It *also* had access to a thriving ecosystem of apps (those pixel-doubled iPhone apps). The experience through the iPhone apps wasn't anything special, but it could still 'get the job done' while you waited for the the iPad version.

That's a fall-back option the Surface doesn't seem to have.



No argument there.



I'll admit the keyboard/cover seems like a slick idea. I expect that, if the execution stacks up, we'll see third-party accessories similar to it made for the iPad. That said, execution on the mini keyboards on the market so far has been pretty lacking, so I'm not buying into the hype without seeing it for myself.
There have been keyboard covers for the iPad for years.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:41 PM   #116
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There have been keyboard covers for the iPad for years.
You mean the clamshells? That's not quite the same.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:41 PM   #117
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My guess is that some enterprise managers and developers with a bunch of C# business and Office related applications to port to a touch UI will feel more confident buying these at roughly price parity. Their actual users might still prefer iPads, but, except for BYOD situations, it's not their money.
yep. hate to say it... thats what i do, enterprise .NET apps for large orgs. my current client (major oil) has already expressed interest since they are a MS shop.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:42 PM   #118
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I'm sure Apple and Microsoft don't evaluate their product releases and press announcements based on daily stock market activity. My point, though, is that the Surface announcement got lost in the excitement of what is essentially Apple's confirmation of the iPad Mini. I'm guessing it is also no accident that Apple is releasing the iPad Mini 3 days before Windows 8 and the Surface are released. It will generate excitement that may overshadow Microsoft's big product release.
Absolutely, it's a constant battle for media bandwidth, but what I'm saying is this was Microsoft's best opportunity to get their message heard. Next week would be even worse. The article was trying to make it out as some sort of mistake, and others here as a blunder. I mean, Microsoft is going to make their own kind of noise in the days before their own big rollout and try to upstage Apple. That doesn't make Apple's selected announcement date "unfortunate."
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:44 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by cecildk9999 View Post
That was the most wonderful commercial that told me absolutely nothing else about the product other than it having a kickstand and an attachable keyboard. It made my day, but I'm still more excited about Apple's event next week.
You know apple commercials tend to focus on one aspect of the iPhone. Like their ridiculous 4inch is common sense ad.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:47 PM   #120
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Any organization that would consider managing tablets with SCCM is already managing iPads, probably with ICU. MS is late to the party. They gave up that edge.
Are you seriously comparing ICU to SCCM?

Speaking as someone that works in a Fortune 200 company that is considering rolling out Surface devices and managing them via SCCM, we do not use the ICU because (up until recently) iPhones and iPads are strictly BYOD and only connect via EAS.

We have recently rolled out iPads for a specific need in the company, but we're using a real MDM to manage them, not ICU.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:48 PM   #121
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Red herring. A logical fallacy.

Your argument is that Apple did something which you say is the same. Fine, I'm not arguing that point about whether Apple committed the same crimes.
I think you jumped the gun on pulling out the old elementary formal logic.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:49 PM   #122
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yep. hate to say it... thats what i do, enterprise .NET apps for large orgs. my current client (major oil) has already expressed interest since they are a MS shop.
Major airline here. I'm not a .NET dev, I'm an Exchange admin, but our org is also an MS shop looking hard at the Surface.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:49 PM   #123
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This is a really nice advert. Looks like Microsoft has the right idea, unlike Samsung.
Yep not insulting potential customers is a pretty original move in this market .

Very cool ad, would be so cool if that all actually happened. For me it's going to be a race as to which makes it to NZ first, iPad mini or surface RT.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:51 PM   #124
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I'm sure Apple and Microsoft don't evaluate their product releases and press announcements based on daily stock market activity. My point, though, is that the Surface announcement got lost in the excitement of what is essentially Apple's confirmation of the iPad Mini. I'm guessing it is also no accident that Apple is releasing the iPad Mini 3 days before Windows 8 and the Surface are released. It will generate excitement that may overshadow Microsoft's big product release.
Perhaps on this forum, but that's not what my co-workers were discussing today.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:54 PM   #125
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However, the abundance of apps hasn't helped Android tablet sales.
It hasnt? 30-40% in a year isnt too bad I would say.

And you cant use it both ways, either apps help or they dont .


Quote:
Quality means as much as quantity.
Metro apps quality is fine .


Quote:
The Surface has Office in its favor (though oddly, only the Home and Student edition), but for now it lacks lots of other apps.
Well it hasnt been released yet, but MS is pushing development and lets face it most people dont use hundreds of apps they use a few if those are present quickly, the 500 000 other apps barely matter .


Quote:
If they got Outlook and Office right, though, this could be a serious "laptop replacement" for the average exec or even middle-level manager. The iPad is still a little too difficult to use as a sole laptop replacement, given that it lacks a true filesystem for document management. Editing e-mail attachments on the fly is more difficult on the iPad than it should be. That's where the Surface could be compelling.
Not just that but a smooth transition between desktop/laptop and tablet, now a tablet feels more like a seperate piece, better integration between the 2 could be key.
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