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Old Oct 16, 2012, 05:08 PM   #51
Plutonius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ouimetnick View Post
I would have either kept it the same thickness or made a slightly thicker (to fit the ALS and make the rear camera flush and not some fugly bulging thing.)
Look at the teardown of the iPod Touch 5. The new camera took up much of the space where the ambient sensor was. They wouldn't have been able to fit in the ambient sensor even if they kept the thickness the same.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 05:18 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
wah wah wah....give me a break. How many micro/mini/other USB cables have there been over the last decade? How many Apple 30 pin connectors? Right...

A company tries to help push people further into the wireless age and all we do is complain they didn't GIVE me some adapter so I can use all my old stuff with my new stuff. Oh by the way - this happened one time in 10 years. And will only happen again in another 10 years.....I'm pretty sure a $30 adapter spread over 10 years so you can use your older outdated stuff shouldn't be too much for those who spent hundreds on a phone...

But we gotta complain don't we
No "we" don't. But you might get a sense of humor. I was clearly being sarcastic. Heavily so.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 05:30 PM   #53
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The iPod touch does not need a light sensor. You are thinking about it wrong.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 05:32 PM   #54
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The only thing that was too thin for Schiller was the profit margin.

They could have put laser holes in the edge of the aluminum and turned it 90˚ or made it like a periscope to reduce thickness.

Apple has lost it's creativity.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 05:36 PM   #55
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Well, at least they could've added quick brightness controls to the iOS handhelds like they have on the iPad in the double-click & swipe menu...
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 05:44 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by blackcrayon View Post
Well, at least they could've added quick brightness controls to the iOS handhelds like they have on the iPad in the double-click & swipe menu...
Aye. It'd be a lot more useful than that bloody volume slider.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 05:49 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Aluminum213 View Post
Classic example of making something thinner for no logical reason

iPhone 5 is thinner then the 4 but if they retained the thickness they could have dramatically improved battery life. I have never met or heard someone say the iPhone 4 was too thick or heavy.
Exactly. "Thinness" is a mental disease over at Apple. They repeatedly make products thinner (MBP, mini, now iMac?) as if thinness is some kind of technical goal. I prefer to think of performance and flexibility as technical goals. As an example if a laptop becomes too thin for a real Ethernet plug it then becomes less useful. Who wants products that are less useful while usually being as, or more, expensive?
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 05:50 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHowl View Post
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...
You're thinking about it wrong.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 06:15 PM   #59
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I can see this Raghid-Phil exchange becoming a popular theme or "meme"
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 06:16 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRainKing View Post
Next year...


To Phil Schiller

Phil, I can't find the volume buttons on the new iPod touch 6th generation, and I don't hear any sound when playing music. Care to explain why, sir?
Thanks
Raghid from Lebanon


Response from Phil Schiller

Hi Raghid.

Thank you for purchasing the new iPod touch. It's a remarkable device!
The 6th generation does not have any volume buttons or the speaker anymore (it's just too thin!).

PS. We are thinking about removing the battery next year.

Sent from my iPhone
The funny thing is looking at the side of my iPhone 5, if they want to make the next one any thinner, they'll have to make the volume buttons smaller.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 06:17 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHowl View Post
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...
True. Apple used to under-promise and over-deliver. They've been making an awful lot of small (and big), almost careless blunders recently, which has flipped that on its head. That's a bad position to be, because it erodes at your reputation.

That said, they've got a lot of pressure on them. They're the biggest company in the world, and they're more closely watched than any company in history (by people like us, not to mention their competitors!). Creativity demands time and inspiration; it doesn't happen on-demand.

Apple has definitely become a more corporate and a lot sloppier in their results since Steve died. It's not fatal yet, but if it continues Apple are just going to become vulnerable to the same kinds of values that helped it originally - attention to detail, care and quality. For the mean time, Apple have a reputation that will give them enough time to rediscover those virtues.

One example: all of the technological masturbation that goes on with Apple photographing casings and matching glass panels to microns; diamond-cut bevels and the like. A lot of people would point to that and say it shows attention to detail and quality concerns.

But then, the device goes and scratches off its colouring after less than a month of light use. That's not attention to detail. That's not focus; having micron-aligned glass is a useless distraction if the other parts aren't equally as well thought out.

Apple used to make the best all-around products. Some parts weren't as good, some parts were better, and the sum was the best available machine from anyone. They seem to have lost that balance for selecting the things to focus on. I don't agree with their priorities at the product level. I wish I was there to offer a counterpoint.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 06:57 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Icaras View Post
Steve said many of those same things on stage himself.
I think in part, that shows how good he was in those reveals. He sounded like he really believed it. He did. That's a good salesman. Nobody in the new crew is quite as good as Steve, so it sounds flat and forced.

But they're pretty much following Steve's old scripts.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 07:03 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
No "we" don't. But you might get a sense of humor. I was clearly being sarcastic. Heavily so.
Lol come on Sam - you know I like to bust your chops.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 07:12 PM   #64
rjalda100
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I even found my 4th gen to be too thin, so I really don't see why they needed to make it even thinner.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 07:13 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottsjack View Post
Exactly. "Thinness" is a mental disease over at Apple. They repeatedly make products thinner (MBP, mini, now iMac?) as if thinness is some kind of technical goal. I prefer to think of performance and flexibility as technical goals. As an example if a laptop becomes too thin for a real Ethernet plug it then becomes less useful. Who wants products that are less useful while usually being as, or more, expensive?
Well said indeed! While it's just about understandable that some people might value thinness of mobile products; to make an iMac thinner just so you can say, "Hey, we made it thinner!" and then have to drop features and deal with overheating issues, etc, when all the time the stand it sits on is necessarily far wider/fatter/deeper and determines the amount of desk depth required... well you get the point.

Although the ALS never worked efficiently enough to be useful on my iPod Touch 4th gen, the point is that features should not be dropped BECAUSE "it's too thin".
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 07:15 PM   #66
wankey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHowl View Post
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...
This is hilarious.

Steve jobs was the one who started doing this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx7v815bYUw

It's sad seeing people say steve wouldn't have done this, steve wouldn't have done that.

Steve WOULD HAVE, and DID DO IT. You all were just brainwashed by his ridiculous marketing skills and manipulative speech therapy. Remember, a lie told a hundred times becomes the truth.

I think Apple is still Apple, and they are doing a good job. Stop saying Steve did a better job, Apple did a great job, Steve was just the cherry on top.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrumper View Post
Well said indeed! While it's just about understandable that some people might value thinness of mobile products; to make an iMac thinner just so you can say, "Hey, we made it thinner!" and then have to drop features and deal with overheating issues, etc, when all the time the stand it sits on is necessarily far wider/fatter/deeper and determines the amount of desk depth required... well you get the point.

Although the ALS never worked efficiently enough to be useful on my iPod Touch 4th gen, the point is that features should not be dropped BECAUSE "it's too thin".
Thin is no a disease, it's the future. The same concept could be applied to 5 inch thick laptops, at the time, who needed a 4 inch thick laptop? 3inch thick laptop?

AN INCH THICK LAPTOP? Who needs that right?

Now you look at 1 inch thick laptops are say they're too thick, macbook airs are the norm.

In the future macbook airs will be the powerhouse pro laptops that put on weight for the performance.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 07:27 PM   #67
shadowbird423
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Originally Posted by 840quadra View Post
I wonder why they don't use the Front facing camera as a light sensor, like they currently do on the MacBooks ?

I am sure there has to be a way for them to activate only a couple photo cells to monitor light levels and such.
The way someone explained it to me, it's not possible because the camera is too big a power drain... And the privacy issues would be hard to overcome anyway.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post
True. Apple used to under-promise and over-deliver. They've been making an awful lot of small (and big), almost careless blunders recently, which has flipped that on its head. That's a bad position to be, because it erodes at your reputation.

That said, they've got a lot of pressure on them. They're the biggest company in the world, and they're more closely watched than any company in history (by people like us, not to mention their competitors!). Creativity demands time and inspiration; it doesn't happen on-demand.

Apple has definitely become a more corporate and a lot sloppier in their results since Steve died. It's not fatal yet, but if it continues Apple are just going to become vulnerable to the same kinds of values that helped it originally - attention to detail, care and quality. For the mean time, Apple have a reputation that will give them enough time to rediscover those virtues.

One example: all of the technological masturbation that goes on with Apple photographing casings and matching glass panels to microns; diamond-cut bevels and the like. A lot of people would point to that and say it shows attention to detail and quality concerns.

But then, the device goes and scratches off its colouring after less than a month of light use. That's not attention to detail. That's not focus; having micron-aligned glass is a useless distraction if the other parts aren't equally as well thought out.

Apple used to make the best all-around products. Some parts weren't as good, some parts were better, and the sum was the best available machine from anyone. They seem to have lost that balance for selecting the things to focus on. I don't agree with their priorities at the product level. I wish I was there to offer a counterpoint.
Sad. Spot on, but sad.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 07:53 PM   #68
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True plus my light sensor on my iPhone 4S is turned off cuz it's so anoying.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 08:08 PM   #69
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All my light sensors are turned off in every device I own. Heck, Amazon shipped a broken one in the first Kindle Fire even!

Light sensors, while the idea is really great, doesn't really benefit us. Because no matter how low or high you have the brightness, it's going to look horrible on a sunny day outside.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 08:31 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WordMasterRice View Post
I don't understand how the thickness of the device is an excuse. Make it thicker then. At what point is dropping features so that it can be thinner going to stop.

Edit: By the way that is a flat out lie, the ambient light sensor is a surface mount component no bigger than the capacitors that are already in there.
Perhaps tolerances in design are higher then you seem to suggest?
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 08:54 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ouimetnick View Post
They don't use the camera. The MacBooks, iMacs, etc have an ALS sensor. Opposite the camera light.
Thanks for that, I have one of the first unibody models, and I never noticed that . Have to look super close to even see it.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 08:59 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by WordMasterRice View Post
I don't understand how the thickness of the device is an excuse. Make it thicker then. At what point is dropping features so that it can be thinner going to stop.

Edit: By the way that is a flat out lie, the ambient light sensor is a surface mount component no bigger than the capacitors that are already in there.
so next update will be 3mm thick.
guy from Lebanon again emailing to Schiller

"Sir, I bought new iPod touch SS (super slim)
I love my device but can find the power button,
Is't me? or it's normal to not find the power button?
Thanks"

Phil
"Thank you for purchasing new iPod touch SS, it's f***g great product.
there is no room to worry, nothing wrong with you.
new iPod SS too thin for battery thats why our hardware team came up with this new brilliant idea(not include the Power button, and consumers don't notice that there is no battery)
Phil"
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 10:08 PM   #73
Drunken Master
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Originally Posted by Aluminum213 View Post
Classic example of making something thinner for no logical reason

iPhone 5 is thinner then the 4 but if they retained the thickness they could have dramatically improved battery life. I have never met or heard someone say the iPhone 4 was too thick or heavy.
My dad picked up my 4S and remarked how heavy it was (he uses a company Blackberry but just acquired an old 3GS too).

Quit lying to yourself to prove a point.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 10:21 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by TheRainKing View Post
Next year...


To Phil Schiller

Phil, I can't find the volume buttons on the new iPod touch 6th generation, and I don't hear any sound when playing music. Care to explain why, sir?
Thanks
Raghid from Lebanon


Response from Phil Schiller

Hi Raghid.

Thank you for purchasing the new iPod touch. It's a remarkable device!
The 6th generation does not have any volume buttons or the speaker anymore (it's just too thin!).

PS. We are thinking about removing the battery next year.

Sent from my iPhone
Hahaha that reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 10:32 PM   #75
gatearray
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Originally Posted by Drunken Master View Post
My dad picked up my 4S and remarked how heavy it was (he uses a company Blackberry but just acquired an old 3GS too).

Quit lying to yourself to prove a point.
Yep, my mom stepped into the future with a 4S last March, and she said the same thing. Upgrading from a cheapo plastic smartphone illicits this response every time. With the 5, not so much anymore.
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