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Old Oct 19, 2012, 05:32 PM   #76
Saladinos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pianophile View Post
He should be upset with himself for failing to deal with his e-mail in a timely manner, not upset with Apple.
Really, yeah.

I mean, you'd think someone from HR would follow up - like give him a phone call or email again asking if everything was OK with the offer. It's rather atypical that they just send an email offering employment and then forget he exists until after the deadline.

Whatever the case, he doesn't seem too upset about it. TBH, I don't think Apple is a good cultural fit for anybody from the JB community; those guys are hackers (in the facebook use of the word). Apple sounds too oppressive a place to work.

I mean really, if you've got to choose between:

- Apple: where security can apparently search your private phone for evidence of leaking to journalists, or
- Google: where you get free gourmet meals, childcare, a totally chilled work environment with 20% time

Who would you choose? I mean yeah, Apple are making a difference with big products, but it's not like you can't make a difference at Google: Google have made such a big difference that to lots of people, Google is the internet.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 05:41 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by everything-i View Post
No they are just simple facts. Maybe your just not recognising simple dry British wit here.
Communication (effective anyway) requires both parties to understand not only the words - but also the intent of those words. Wit and humor are even more complicated

In other words - I would say you failed on both at both effectively communicating and wit. Well played.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 06:19 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by ahmet View Post
One does not simply forget to respond Apple's offer
I did last month. I've been going to a couple job fairs at my school. They only give 48 hours to respond. Just happens that was the weekend I got my new iPhone and didn't set all of my email accounts set up.

Kind of annoyed but I think I received a better offer elsewhere!
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 06:21 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by FieldingMellish View Post
Your statement's strangely got nothing to do with my response to someone calling me jealous in response to my original post, calling the young man a douche bag for having lost sight of Apple's email.
Your tone sure sounds jealous to me.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 06:42 PM   #80
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Stupid Kid

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battlefield Fan View Post
I did last month. I've been going to a couple job fairs at my school. They only give 48 hours to respond. Just happens that was the weekend I got my new iPhone and didn't set all of my email accounts set up.

Kind of annoyed but I think I received a better offer elsewhere!
Are you a computer science grad? I'm a very talented Java and iOS developer and have been interested in looking into employment there. I'm not an Ivy Leaguer though; I'm not sure how much emphasis is placed on that.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 07:08 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
Interns rarely to never get a FAT paycheck, if they get one at all and they rarely to never get to do whatever they want.

As for the 'remote' part, he's a student whose 'job' was likely to through the various betas and such and look for loopholes that would allow someone to create a jailbreak. You don't need to be at Cupertino to do that. Thus the remote offer, which he F'd up by not opening that email.
Interns at large tech companies pretty much always are paid and usually pretty well. They might not be 'FAT' paychecks, but they're nothing to scoff at. $5,000-$6,500/mo is pretty common.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 07:38 PM   #82
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Apple had no intention on hiring this kid. This was an excersise in knowledge transfer: how to plug the holes and prevent future jailbreaks. I find it hard to beleive an email is considered a formal means to offer an internship. Something is not right here.

Last edited by Joesmith13245; Oct 19, 2012 at 07:47 PM.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 07:57 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by everything-i View Post
No they are just simple facts. Maybe your just not recognising simple dry British wit here.
Oh no, not British Wit !!!!!!!!

Sorry. Just can't stop.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 08:31 PM   #84
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Isn't Apple a PHONE maker?

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Originally Posted by Bill Killer View Post
I'm sorry, but who makes a formal job offer via email?
No one, a phone call, with a printed letter via FedEx... get it in writing doesn't mean email.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 08:42 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by gotluck View Post
Your tone sure sounds jealous to me.
Sounds like you're the douche bag.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 08:47 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by FieldingMellish View Post
Sounds like you're the douche bag.
Awesome, you must be a lovely person.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 08:50 PM   #87
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Awesome, you must be a lovely person.

We're both losers on this board on a Friday night.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 08:52 PM   #88
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but how does this relate to harry potter?
+1
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 08:58 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post

- Apple: where security can apparently search your private phone for evidence of leaking to journalists, or
- Google: where you get free gourmet meals, childcare, a totally chilled work environment with 20% time
That's a very one sided comparison you've said everything bad about working for Apple and everything good about working Google but haven't really compared them.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 09:36 PM   #90
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What ever...
I want my A5&A6 iOS6 JB NOW!
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:01 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
Interns rarely to never get a FAT paycheck, if they get one at all and they rarely to never get to do whatever they want.

As for the 'remote' part, he's a student whose 'job' was likely to through the various betas and such and look for loopholes that would allow someone to create a jailbreak. You don't need to be at Cupertino to do that. Thus the remote offer, which he F'd up by not opening that email.
I think apple was getting of cheap calling this guy a remote intern. He should have held out and worked for them as consultant.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:10 PM   #92
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Here's your comparison from the other side:

Apple: a high earning fortune 500 company that is doing extremely well
Google: a violator of privacy and enforces the repression of free speech in other countries

Both companies have their good and bad parts. If you're going to act like a troll, you should be less obvious about it.

Personally, I think the kid was busy getting high and hanging out with his friends to prioritize a reply. He's young so he can f--k up. I just hope the lesson learned stays with him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post
I mean really, if you've got to choose between:

- Apple: where security can apparently search your private phone for evidence of leaking to journalists, or
- Google: where you get free gourmet meals, childcare, a totally chilled work environment with 20% time
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:53 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by macingman View Post
That's a very one sided comparison you've said everything bad about working for Apple and everything good about working Google but haven't really compared them.
I'm just going by what I know from media reports. I haven't worked at both companies to tell the difference; then again, that's the same info prospective employees will be looking at.

The work environment at Apple seems really tense. The tight security on campus is not fiction. You also wonder about how collaboration and knowledge-sharing can work when people haven't been "disclosed" on things.

Google has a totally opposite ethos, and 20% time is the Hallmark that Google gets creativity. Creativity is vital because it leads to innovation: solving problems in new and better ways.

People can't be confined to specific areas: they have a multitude of diverse talents. People work best and are most creative when they are passionate about what they do; yet so many people just do their jobs to get through the day and collect their cash. I know plenty of people like that, who hate their jobs but just do it without complaining. I also know plenty of people who I would consider to be creative geniuses, whose talents are squandered in jobs where there is little room for creativity.

On the other hand, I also know (fewer) people who have made radical switches once they discovered their passion, and never looked back: for example, one of my close friends is a prize-winning chemist who one day decided to give up her job and become an artist. She's a fantastic artist, and she doesn't miss her high-flying career at all.

My point is that allowing people to try new things and exercise their creative talents is important. The most important thing for creativity is inspiration; that moment when the earth-shattering idea seems to force its way in to your consciousness. It comes from the most random of places; you can't predict it.

As is probably obvious, I'm with Google on this. Multidisciplinary thinking can produce amazingly innovative solutions. Apple's system is the antithesis of that; until a product is released, nobody else knows about it and you can't discuss it with anyone. Everything is extremely disciplined.

Apple obviously have been incredibly innovative in the past, under that same system. The difference then was that they had Steve Jobs, who was an engineer in that he had a good eye for seeing how things could fit together. Oh, and of course you need full disclosure to do that: otherwise its like trying to do a jigsaw puzzle in the dark. I'm not seeking much really exciting innovation from Apple since Steve died, and I'm not surprised. They don't make the best of their employees creativity, from what I can tell.

How's that for a comparison?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastercat View Post
Here's your comparison from the other side:

Apple: a high earning fortune 500 company that is doing extremely well
Google: a violator of privacy and enforces the repression of free speech in other countries

Both companies have their good and bad parts. If you're going to act like a troll, you should be less obvious about it.

Personally, I think the kid was busy getting high and hanging out with his friends to prioritize a reply. He's young so he can f--k up. I just hope the lesson learned stays with him.
Interesting that your remarks are related to who the company is, not what the work environment is like.

I'm not criticising you (or trolling, for that matter), I just think its interesting.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 01:50 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battlefield Fan View Post
I did last month. I've been going to a couple job fairs at my school. They only give 48 hours to respond. Just happens that was the weekend I got my new iPhone and didn't set all of my email accounts set up.

Kind of annoyed but I think I received a better offer elsewhere!
And did you also forget to set up email accounts on this 15" Macbook Pro Hi-Res, 2.3 GHz i7 QC, 16GB RAM in your sig?

Cool story, bro.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 02:20 AM   #95
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Not sure if the company philosophy is still the same but reading Jobs' book they seemed to want to keep good talent and happy to lose anyone not up to scratch.

Seems odd they would offer and then withdraw the offer if he failed to respond. Any company I ever worked for worked really hard to keep people who did a good job (I have personal experience of being courted to stay at a company when I intimated I had another job to go to)

He either was just a 'meh' employee they weren't particularly impressed with (or was just doing 'ok') or the story is hogwash.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 04:18 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post
I'm just going by what I know from media reports. I haven't worked at both companies to tell the difference; then again, that's the same info prospective employees will be looking at.

The work environment at Apple seems really tense. The tight security on campus is not fiction. You also wonder about how collaboration and knowledge-sharing can work when people haven't been "disclosed" on things.

Google has a totally opposite ethos, and 20% time is the Hallmark that Google gets creativity. Creativity is vital because it leads to innovation: solving problems in new and better ways.

People can't be confined to specific areas: they have a multitude of diverse talents. People work best and are most creative when they are passionate about what they do; yet so many people just do their jobs to get through the day and collect their cash. I know plenty of people like that, who hate their jobs but just do it without complaining. I also know plenty of people who I would consider to be creative geniuses, whose talents are squandered in jobs where there is little room for creativity.

On the other hand, I also know (fewer) people who have made radical switches once they discovered their passion, and never looked back: for example, one of my close friends is a prize-winning chemist who one day decided to give up her job and become an artist. She's a fantastic artist, and she doesn't miss her high-flying career at all.

My point is that allowing people to try new things and exercise their creative talents is important. The most important thing for creativity is inspiration; that moment when the earth-shattering idea seems to force its way in to your consciousness. It comes from the most random of places; you can't predict it.

As is probably obvious, I'm with Google on this. Multidisciplinary thinking can produce amazingly innovative solutions. Apple's system is the antithesis of that; until a product is released, nobody else knows about it and you can't discuss it with anyone. Everything is extremely disciplined.

Apple obviously have been incredibly innovative in the past, under that same system. The difference then was that they had Steve Jobs, who was an engineer in that he had a good eye for seeing how things could fit together. Oh, and of course you need full disclosure to do that: otherwise its like trying to do a jigsaw puzzle in the dark. I'm not seeking much really exciting innovation from Apple since Steve died, and I'm not surprised. They don't make the best of their employees creativity, from what I can tell.

How's that for a comparison?
I'm still not convinced. Again you have completely ignored the benefits of working for Apple and ignored the fact that many Apple employees actually are very passionate about the company. Also the secrecy is really to be expected. If a group of employees are working on a new design then I doubt every employee in the building needs to know what that design looks like.

Also the media likes to paint Apple in a bad light, you never actually know what is going on there until you have been there yourself.

You also have to keep in mind that Steve Jobs left Apple just over a year ago, or only 1 or 2 generations of devices ago. Really not a long time to judge how innovative Apple are going to be in the future. Also if you thought Jobs watched over absolutely every aspect of the company and made all the decisions and was the be all and end all you are wrong.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 05:09 AM   #97
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So Nichilas says he forgot to read an email.

Apple Makes millions of iPhones but was to lazy to pick up a phone and call him.

If I want someone in my company to work for me and I don't hear from him thru email i call him.

Or this story is BS or Apple thinks way to highly of themselves ans Nichilas is just another number to Apple.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 05:22 AM   #98
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Or you would expect that someone who expertise in web technologies would check his mails every now and then. At least in order to reply to something that seems to be a standard procedure for the company.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 06:06 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post
*Snip*
Google has a totally opposite ethos, and 20% time is the Hallmark that Google gets creativity. Creativity is vital because it leads to innovation: solving problems in new and better ways.
*Snip*
If one were slightly cynical, one might say that the 20% is Google's way of going, "hey really smart people, i know you guys have awesome ideas and to keep you from working on those ideas in your own time thus increasing the chance that you'll spin off into your own startups, we'll give you 20% of your work time to work on your own projects so that it would be Googles IP". Hooray
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 06:52 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by STiNG Operation View Post
Probably mostly lies in this story....

It's not like Apple wouldn't let him know while he is employed as intern that they will be re hiring him....

They wouldn't just shoot him an email out of the blue and be like "hey you want to keep working for us" lol.
Yes they would. That's how contractual work operates.
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