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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:55 PM   #76
blackcrayon
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Originally Posted by funkright View Post
I guess we now have truly disposable computers at much higher than disposable prices
I guess if you ordered your 2011 or just about any previous iMac with maxed out RAM, those were disposable too? I mean there has never been much you could do internally with an iMac.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:55 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Banjhiyi View Post
No replaceable RAM is one too many FU's from Apple.

Stick it, Cook. I'm done.
Buy a 27". Go big or go home son.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 08:01 PM   #78
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who the hell needs 16 GB of ram. Jesus christ. Unless you are running video software, my 2 year old i7 with 8 GB ram can handle just about everything I throw at it.

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Originally Posted by aurichie View Post
5400 RPM is fine because for me battery life is much more important than drive speed.
Dunno if this guy is trolling or just plain stupid.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 08:01 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
There are only 17 people in the world who need to custom hand-install 16 GB of RAM in the smaller iMac.

But all 17 of them are about to post And I feel your pain: you need what you need!
I'm more concerned that this restriction will filter up the product chain and include other hardware elements
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 08:03 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by damitssam View Post
who the hell needs 16 GB of ram. Jesus christ. Unless you are running video software, my 2 year old i7 with 8 GB ram can handle just about everything I throw at it.

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Dunno if this guy is trolling or just plain stupid.
I think youre trolling as you basically answered your own question although with limited knowledge.

16gb is a necessity for some. Spending thousands on a computer like a pro user but not being able to upgrade RAM like a noob is ridiculous.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 08:07 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by wikus View Post
I think youre trolling as you basically answered your own question although with limited knowledge.

16gb is a necessity for some. Spending thousands on a computer like a pro user but not being able to upgrade RAM like a noob is ridiculous.
Then those people can upgrade the RAM to 16GB in the store. Case closed
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 08:39 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by wikus View Post
If you want horsepower, your better off with a PC and Windows, clearly Apple is catering to the tech illiterate.

Or you could try a Hackintosh.

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I've been using hackintoshes for the last 4 years and have been quite happy with them....
I'm always looking for Apple hardware updates that might make me reconsider a new build....
yet once again Apple disappoints and time for a new build for around 500-600 that will equal the 1799 imac in performance....
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:02 PM   #83
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[QUOTE=damitssam;16114445]who the hell needs 16 GB of ram. Jesus christ. Unless you are running video software, my 2 year old i7 with 8 GB ram can handle just about everything I throw at it.[COLOR="#808080"]

Most people probably don't need more than 8GB (at least for now), but I personally need at least 16GB (I have 18GB on my Mac Pro). I often have two Parallels virtual machines running, XCode, Aperture, Photoshop, and other applications and if I'm not careful I have got into situations where my performance dropped due to paging.

I'm going to buy myself a new 27" iMac to replace my almost 5-year old Mac Pro, and I'll probably get the 16GB of memory directly from Apple (and buy OWC memory if I ever need more). Looking at the upgrade pricing on the Mac Mini, going from 8GB to 16GB will cost $200 vs. $130 or so from OWC for 16GB. I'm willing to pay a small premium for Apple memory.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:05 PM   #84
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2012 iMac, Its not for everyone

I have been waiting a few months to see what the new iMacs would be before buying a machine. Initially, I was impressed by the new 21.5 model; but, the limit of 16GB, slow hard drive, and lack of upgradability post-purchase is a deal breaker. I had planned on buying the 21.5" iMac for my business, and I don't plan on buying a new computer every couple of years. At least kits are available to upgrade the 2011 model; I doubt that will happen for the 2012 models. I accepted that my PPC G5 had no upgradable CPU, and I can't easily upgrade my 27" 2011 iMac. Its much more difficult to accept that the RAM cannot be upgraded in the 2012 21.5" iMac. Even the RAM in my 1985 Mac was upgraded with the turn of a torx wrench. Refurbs are in my future. I'm still an Apple fan of 27 years, but losing control over upgrading my machine sucks.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:23 PM   #85
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Could be Apple decided to change from 7200 to 5400 was because of the heat factor.

http://www.ehow.com/info_12085368_54...hard-disk.html
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:29 PM   #86
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Display

Nobody's mentioning the displays. I'm pretty excited, actually. I still have my 2006 white 20" iMac, which has become a bit of a pain, but vowed not to replace it till the new ones have a non-glare display. (Can't STAND the reflective displays.) Well, they do now, almost. Not as non-glare as my old one, but much better. 16 gb RAM is enough for me; I will be in for a 21". (Not happy about the need for an external cd/dvd drive but my son has the same issue with his MBA and as it turns out, has hardly ever used his Superdrive.)
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:32 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Rich2Putt View Post
Could be Apple decided to change from 7200 to 5400 was because of the heat factor.

http://www.ehow.com/info_12085368_54...hard-disk.html
I doubt it since the few watts saved on the hard drive will be nothing compared to the GPU, CPU and PSU.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:37 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by gmm421 View Post
I have been waiting a few months to see what the new iMacs would be before buying a machine. Initially, I was impressed by the new 21.5 model; but, the limit of 16GB, slow hard drive, and lack of upgradability post-purchase is a deal breaker. I had planned on buying the 21.5" iMac for my business, and I don't plan on buying a new computer every couple of years. At least kits are available to upgrade the 2011 model; I doubt that will happen for the 2012 models. I accepted that my PPC G5 had no upgradable CPU, and I can't easily upgrade my 27" 2011 iMac. Its much more difficult to accept that the RAM cannot be upgraded in the 2012 21.5" iMac. Even the RAM in my 1985 Mac was upgraded with the turn of a torx wrench. Refurbs are in my future. I'm still an Apple fan of 27 years, but losing control over upgrading my machine sucks.
Why in the world would you need more than 16GB of RAM? That's a sh**load of RAM. 5 Years ago few Mac apps could even address more than 2GB of RAM. I know people thinking that software will continue to use more RAM and it will but within reason. The only people that seem to need gobs of RAM are

Servers that are heavily used
Design
Multiple VMs
Porn

jk on the pr0n
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:41 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by aquaboy View Post
Does it have a Kensington Lock Slot?
Might be needed to stop it floating away given its thinness and lightness now...
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:43 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by azentropy View Post
Oh well, cross it off my list now too.
Yeah, considering there are several attractive All-in-One PCs now ... Apple should really make the iMac more powerful not less!


Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Why in the world would you need more than 16GB of RAM? That's a sh**load of RAM.
True, but as a power user I often run 2 VMs at the same time along with several other apps - that gobbles memory.

Yes, not every needs this much memory, considering the Mac Pro is so expensive, the iMac is really the only option and therefore should cater somewhat to (economy) power users.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:49 PM   #91
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... At least kits are available to upgrade the 2011 model; I doubt that will happen for the 2012 models. I accepted that my PPC G5 had no upgradable CPU, and I can't easily upgrade my 27" 2011 iMac. Its much more difficult to accept that the RAM cannot be upgraded in the 2012 21.5" iMac. ...
I still think the new 21.5" iMac might have upgradeable memory, just not very easy to upgrade. It depends on how easy it is to open the case. An Apple-authorized service shop or a capable DIY owner with the right tools will hopefully be able to open it up.

The specs say "8GB (two 4GB) of 1600MHz DDR3 memory, Configurable to 16GB." I don't think the memory is soldered onto the motherboard, because it says "two 4GB". I think there will be two removable memory modules; maybe not SO-DIMMs like the 27" will use, but still removable. That hopefully means there's an upgrade path from Apple and/or 3rd parties.

Contrast the iMac specs with the rMBP, which says "8GB of 1600MHz DDR3L onboard memory, Configurable to 16GB." It does NOT say "two 4GB" because the memory chips are integrated onto the motherboard and aren't removable.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:51 PM   #92
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Thinness and weight

Also, everybody's making jokes about the thinness, given that it is after all a desktop, but I actually take mine with me when we travel (by car) so that's a plus for me.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:02 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Why in the world would you need more than 16GB of RAM? That's a sh**load of RAM. 5 Years ago few Mac apps could even address more than 2GB of RAM. I know people thinking that software will continue to use more RAM and it will but within reason. The only people that seem to need gobs of RAM are

Servers that are heavily used
Design
Multiple VMs
Porn

jk on the pr0n
I routinely get complaints from people running 16 GB of RAM complaining of lack of RAM. 4-6 years ago people like you screamed that there was no way people would ever need more than 4 and today those same machines are choking on a base install running iPhoto. A user can't anticipate RAM needs of 2 years from now, let alone 4. My problem here is a user finds they need more for a new use/job/hobby, and is told by the apple retail "genius" that their "premium" computer is too crappy to be upgraded to suit their needs even while still in AppleCare. This kills the brand loyalty.

Don't even try to tell me only designers will need this much RAM, a properly equipped designer will show you how fast they can burn up 32+, and I have residential iPhoto users who had to upgrade to 16 a year ago. 16GB really isn't even all that much today, let alone 3 years from now.
Background: many years in Support for both residential and professional IT consulting.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:06 PM   #94
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I routinely get complaints from people running 16 GB of RAM complaining of lack of RAM. 4-6 years ago people like you screamed that there was no way people would ever need more than 4 and today those same machines are choking on a base install running iPhoto. A user can't anticipate RAM needs of 2 years from now, let alone 4. My problem here is a user finds they need more for a new use/job/hobby, and is told by the apple retail "genius" that their "premium" computer is too crappy to be upgraded to suit their needs even while still in AppleCare. This kills the brand loyalty.

Don't even try to tell me only designers will need this much RAM, a properly equipped designer will show you how fast they can burn up 32+, and I have residential iPhoto users who had to upgrade to 16 a year ago. 16GB really isn't even all that much today, let alone 3 years from now.
What are you on about? In my IT support experience, the most users seem to need is 8GB at MOST. When I'm using FCPX on my 2009 Mac Pro, the most I have used is 9GB editing 1080p video...

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Originally Posted by MeFromHere View Post
I still think the new 21.5" iMac might have upgradeable memory, just not very easy to upgrade. It depends on how easy it is to open the case. An Apple-authorized service shop or a capable DIY owner with the right tools will hopefully be able to open it up.

The specs say "8GB (two 4GB) of 1600MHz DDR3 memory, Configurable to 16GB." I don't think the memory is soldered onto the motherboard, because it says "two 4GB". I think there will be two removable memory modules; maybe not SO-DIMMs like the 27" will use, but still removable. That hopefully means there's an upgrade path from Apple and/or 3rd parties.

Contrast the iMac specs with the rMBP, which says "8GB of 1600MHz DDR3L onboard memory, Configurable to 16GB." It does NOT say "two 4GB" because the memory chips are integrated onto the motherboard and aren't removable.
Configurable = at checkout
Upgradeable = user serviceable
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:21 PM   #95
gmm421
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Why in the world would you need more than 16GB of RAM? That's a sh**load of RAM. 5 Years ago few Mac apps could even address more than 2GB of RAM. I know people thinking that software will continue to use more RAM and it will but within reason. The only people that seem to need gobs of RAM are

Servers that are heavily used
Design
Multiple VMs
Porn

jk on the pr0n
As I said in my message, its to be a business computer; and, it will run multiple VMs and many programs simultaneously. Until the G5, my upgradable Apple computers were usable for almost 10 years. 16GB today may be the equivalent of 2GB in the future, so the more RAM options, the merrier.

Why would porn require high GBs?
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:28 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Why in the world would you need more than 16GB of RAM? That's a sh**load of RAM. 5 Years ago few Mac apps could even address more than 2GB of RAM. I know people thinking that software will continue to use more RAM and it will but within reason. The only people that seem to need gobs of RAM are

Servers that are heavily used
Design
Multiple VMs
Porn

jk on the pr0n

Well 8 gb might be good for 1 or 2 years but as time passes programs begin to use more and more ram and eventually will make your iMac feel sluggish when running multiple apps!! That's why it's good to future proof your iMac by having upgradable RAM!!
Also the base iMac only has 8 an upgrading it to 16 by apple is WAAAYYY more expensive than buying it online and upgrading it yourself!!
I'm still debating whether to get the current iMac or wait for the new one!! But that 5400 drive is steering me towards the sandy bridge
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:29 PM   #97
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Wooo! Breaking out the smelling salts!

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Originally Posted by azentropy View Post
Oh well, cross it off my list now too.
Yes, because I want a 21.5" iMac, but CANNOT get 16GB preinstalled? No way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkright View Post
I guess we now have truly disposable computers at much higher than disposable prices
If I cannot buy this now with 8GB of memory and then buy and install 16GB on my own, this thing is disposable!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcesHigh87 View Post
I'll keep my 2011 21.5" iMac thanks. I get a 7200 RPM drive and can upgrade the RAM myself up to 32GB. I don't care if my computer is thin, I care if it's functional. Apple is going too far with their drive for thinness.
A computer with 16GB of memory is NOT functional, people! It just won't work! I am going to keep my current iMac forever.

------------------

People sure do love to complain about Apple, but then the next day, the world keeps turning and we all manage. If you need a computer with 16GB of memory, and let's be honest, very few do, get it preinstalled. If you want a more powerful machine, with higher options, get the 27". It's not as fun as whining about Apple, but it will let you get your extreme, memory-intensive work done.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:34 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by MeFromHere View Post
I still think the new 21.5" iMac might have upgradeable memory, just not very easy to upgrade. It depends on how easy it is to open the case. An Apple-authorized service shop or a capable DIY owner with the right tools will hopefully be able to open it up.

The specs say "8GB (two 4GB) of 1600MHz DDR3 memory, Configurable to 16GB." I don't think the memory is soldered onto the motherboard, because it says "two 4GB". I think there will be two removable memory modules; maybe not SO-DIMMs like the 27" will use, but still removable. That hopefully means there's an upgrade path from Apple and/or 3rd parties.

Contrast the iMac specs with the rMBP, which says "8GB of 1600MHz DDR3L onboard memory, Configurable to 16GB." It does NOT say "two 4GB" because the memory chips are integrated onto the motherboard and aren't removable.
If that's the case, then why didnt apple just add the removable door like in the 27?? Makes no sense not to let people upgrade their 21 but let them upgrade the 27??
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:34 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by cgk.emu View Post

Configurable = at checkout
Upgradeable = user serviceable
I agree about "configurable".

However, I think the 21.5" iMac will be "upgradeable" (by an Apple technician) but not (easily) "user serviceable" to upgrade RAM. The case will be hard to open and there's a good chance the memory modules will be some nonstandard form factor. The "two 4GB" description gives me hope that the memory will be removable modules, not soldered onto the board.

On the other hand, the 15" rMBP is neither "upgradeable" nor "user serviceable" for RAM. Not even an Apple technician can replace the memory in that system.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:40 PM   #100
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I've never really been a fan of the 21" anyways. I really wish they would say when you'll be able to order (pre order?) the 27" though
Just got off the phone with Tim, and they were all devastated when they found out you've never been a fan of the 21". He added that they'll keep selling it for a while as a few other people might like one, if that's OK with you?
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