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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:40 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by WatchTheThrone View Post
If that's the case, then why didnt apple just add the removable door like in the 27?? Makes no sense not to let people upgrade their 21 but let them upgrade the 27??
It more than likely has to do with where the RAM has to be on the motherboard. With the 27 inch there was more room to put the RAM in an accessible place, but not so with the 21 inch.

Question though -- any ideas why the 27 inch is almost exactly twice the weight of the 21 inch?
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:42 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by cgk.emu View Post
What are you on about? In my IT support experience, the most users seem to need is 8GB at MOST. When I'm using FCPX on my 2009 Mac Pro, the most I have used is 9GB editing 1080p video...
You're using 9 today for probably quite basic single-track video, I assume? What about intensive plugins or lots of effects? How about running after effects, photoshop, illustrator, Lightroom, autocad, maya, logic, motion or anything else in combination? What about 4 years from now? Just because you aren't, doesn't mean there aren't a ton of users out there doing it. Sure, your home user won't need 32 today, but who is to say that they won't in 3 years? My own minimum ram needs, and I don't do nearly as intensive work on my MP as my clients, have doubled approximately every 2.5 years since 1999.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:45 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by WatchTheThrone View Post
If that's the case, then why didnt apple just add the removable door like in the 27?? Makes no sense not to let people upgrade their 21 but let them upgrade the 27??
Maybe they couldn't squeeze the door into the smaller space. Maybe the RAM is on the wrong side of the board, or behind some other component. Maybe the modules use a weird connector that requires special tools. I really have no idea; I'm just guessing.

But they describe the memory as "two 4GB", which it NOT how they describe the soldered-on memory in the 15" rMBP. Can you think of another reason for the "two 4GB" description?

I guess we'll have to wait for someone to buy one and take it apart.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:05 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by flopticalcube View Post
I doubt it since the few watts saved on the hard drive will be nothing compared to the GPU, CPU and PSU.
The major difference is that the GPU/CPU have dedicated and efficient cooling systems. Hard drives in most desktops and laptops simply rely on conduction through thin mounting brackets, and not much else. So, a 3.5" hard drive spinning at 7200 rpm, and hanging out at 110F is in fact a large source of heat in the chassis.

It's really not a problem for other components in the system, but in a compact enclosure like the new iMac, the hard drive would likely fail. I'm not saying they should have such a small enclosure, but I do think the move to 5400 rpm laptop-sized drives is a result of little space, and therefore limited thermal budget.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:21 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Rend It View Post
The major difference is that the GPU/CPU have dedicated and efficient cooling systems. Hard drives in most desktops and laptops simply rely on conduction through thin mounting brackets, and not much else. So, a 3.5" hard drive spinning at 7200 rpm, and hanging out at 110F is in fact a large source of heat in the chassis.

It's really not a problem for other components in the system, but in a compact enclosure like the new iMac, the hard drive would likely fail. I'm not saying they should have such a small enclosure, but I do think the move to 5400 rpm laptop-sized drives is a result of little space, and therefore limited thermal budget.
Could be but I doubt the thermals where as important as the thickness resulting from using a smaller drive. Tight, low-flowing enclosures never stopped Apple from putting in 3.5" 7200RPM drives before.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:00 PM   #106
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Wooo! Breaking out the smelling salts!



Yes, because I want a 21.5" iMac, but CANNOT get 16GB preinstalled? No way!



If I cannot buy this now with 8GB of memory and then buy and install 16GB on my own, this thing is disposable!



A computer with 16GB of memory is NOT functional, people! It just won't work! I am going to keep my current iMac forever.

------------------

People sure do love to complain about Apple, but then the next day, the world keeps turning and we all manage. If you need a computer with 16GB of memory, and let's be honest, very few do, get it preinstalled. If you want a more powerful machine, with higher options, get the 27". It's not as fun as whining about Apple, but it will let you get your extreme, memory-intensive work done.
For people like you who don't earn their living from the tools they use, as in, a computer, you are in no position to criticize them for their complaints.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:20 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by flopticalcube View Post
To make a slimmer desktop?
If your main concern is how thin it is wouldn't you buy a MacBook Air? Now I can understand why being thin and light is important in a notebook, but for a desktop? I understand that they are aiming for the crowd that puts style above everything else, but still it is not like the last generation iMac was ugly.

Apple has been blamed before for putting style ahead of function, but I'd say this is the most egregious example yet.

I will happily continue to use my 2011 iMac and I wonder if maybe we would have been better served by Apple just refreshing that line with updated specs. At least they would have been more functional and with the additional space they could have made a real powerhouse out of it.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:34 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by DakotaGuy View Post
If your main concern is how thin it is wouldn't you buy a MacBook Air? Now I can understand why being thin and light is important in a notebook, but for a desktop? I understand that they are aiming for the crowd that puts style above everything else, but still it is not like the last generation iMac was ugly.

Apple has been blamed before for putting style ahead of function, but I'd say this is the most egregious example yet.

I will happily continue to use my 2011 iMac and I wonder if maybe we would have been better served by Apple just refreshing that line with updated specs. At least they would have been more functional and with the additional space they could have made a real powerhouse out of it.
Oh yes. I thought the G5 iMac was perfectly fine. Easy to service and plenty of space. Thin on a phone I understand but thin on a desktop I don't.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 12:26 AM   #109
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Definitely the most estheticly appealing all-in-one; if you really need more upgradability (the majority of consumers don't) they probably don't care that you won't buy it. Maybe its all a conspiracy to drive Applecare sales!

They have to be bringing out a new Pro so I'll be waiting for that...and waiting...and waiting...
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 12:52 AM   #110
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Just so everyone knows, I purchased the mid 2011 iMac with Lion preinstalled & a 250GB SSD and upgraded the RAM to 32GB from OWC. It ran like sh#t and I had nothing but problems, even after a couple of fresh reinstalls which took literally days to set up. I downgraded it to Snow Leopard and it's the fastest computer I've ever owned and I do ALOT of video editing and graphics work. If you don't have a way to run Snow Leopard, don't expect a whole lot from the 32GB of RAM in the new iMac's. It's not the computers fault, it's going to be the OS. Lion/Mountain Lion are bloated turd OS's.

That said, after today's keynote, I don't regret my purchase of the mid 2011 system literally AT ALL. In fact given the chance to do it all over again, I'd take the previous generation iMac over what I saw today. Apple has lost me as a customer on future hardware purchases. I can not understand their, almost psychotic, obsessive urge to make everything thinner. I have not been impressed by anything they've announced this entire year and they've refreshed everything they've got except the Mac Pro.

I've said it before and I'll reiterate it here, Apple may be selling phones, tablets and computers now in 2012, but in about a couple of more keynotes, with all of their products being soo expensive, unsubstantial in size and disposable, people are going to realize that a little heft in a device and upgradeability is not a bad thing, especially if it prolongs the devices lifecycle. I still have my pre-unibody 2008 MacBook Pro with a user replaceable battery and I'd take that any day over the new disposable computers. It still runs Snow Leopard and I've maxed out the RAM in it. If I ever want a faster laptop, I'll upgrade it's hard drive to an SSD. And if my iMac ever fails and can't be repaired, I'll be building a hackintosh which can run Snow Leopard since none of their current lineup is backwards compatible. Future Apple software is dead to me unless by some miracle they pull their heads out and are able to turn their current direction around.

It's like Cook and Co. have set their sites on failure and can't see anything until the numbers start to drop. Which of course, they will, maybe not soon...definitely not this year, but they will and when they do, there will be a mass migration the size of which you haven't seen since Apple released the iPhone and Jobs will not be back to save them.

Just my thoughts. Take it or leave it.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 01:10 AM   #111
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Apple's War on Physcial Media!

I'm starting to feel like there needs to be series of public demonstrations condemning the forced eradication of optical media. To me it just sounds as if tech/media companies don't want to allow any users to own any piece of software/movies etc. I mean if I buy a copy of Photoshop and want to sell it to a colleague to help me pay for a copy of Painter how do I do that when all physical copies of software are finally gone? If I want to own a copy of a movie so that I can watch it anywhere, at any time without having to get permission from some server somewhere or determine if it's available at the time I want to watch it or not how do I do that? I prefer to buy things that are physically put in my hands that I can control, sell, trade or lend if I want to.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 01:25 AM   #112
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So is the new 27 inch iMac the replacement for the MacPro?

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Originally Posted by Imhotep397 View Post
I'm starting to feel like there needs to be series of public demonstrations condemning the forced eradication of optical media. To me it just sounds as if tech/media companies don't want to allow any users to own any piece of software/movies etc. I mean if I buy a copy of Photoshop and want to sell it to a colleague to help me pay for a copy of Painter how do I do that when all physical copies of software are finally gone? If I want to own a copy of a movie so that I can watch it anywhere, at any time without having to get permission from some server somewhere or determine if it's available at the time I want to watch it or not how do I do that? I prefer to buy things that are physically put in my hands that I can control, sell, trade or lend if I want to.
No one is stopping you from buying and owning as many CD's DVD's or BluRays as you can afford. You just can't play them without dropping extra money on an external drive, or transfering them to SD Cards. Apple is making your life less convienient thats all. It's not the end of life as we know it.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 01:37 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by AmazingRobie View Post
Just so everyone knows, I purchased the mid 2011 iMac with Lion preinstalled & a 250GB SSD and upgraded the RAM to 32GB from OWC. It ran like sh#t and I had nothing but problems, even after a couple of fresh reinstalls which took literally days to set up. I downgraded it to Snow Leopard and it's the fastest computer I've ever owned and I do ALOT of video editing and graphics work. If you don't have a way to run Snow Leopard, don't expect a whole lot from the 32GB of RAM in the new iMac's. It's not the computers fault, it's going to be the OS. Lion/Mountain Lion are bloated turd OS's.

That said, after today's keynote, I don't regret my purchase of the mid 2011 system literally AT ALL. In fact given the chance to do it all over again, I'd take the previous generation iMac over what I saw today. Apple has lost me as a customer on future hardware purchases. I can not understand their, almost psychotic, obsessive urge to make everything thinner. I have not been impressed by anything they've announced this entire year and they've refreshed everything they've got except the Mac Pro.

I've said it before and I'll reiterate it here, Apple may be selling phones, tablets and computers now in 2012, but in about a couple of more keynotes, with all of their products being soo expensive, unsubstantial in size and disposable, people are going to realize that a little heft in a device and upgradeability is not a bad thing, especially if it prolongs the devices lifecycle. I still have my pre-unibody 2008 MacBook Pro with a user replaceable battery and I'd take that any day over the new disposable computers. It still runs Snow Leopard and I've maxed out the RAM in it. If I ever want a faster laptop, I'll upgrade it's hard drive to an SSD. And if my iMac ever fails and can't be repaired, I'll be building a hackintosh which can run Snow Leopard since none of their current lineup is backwards compatible. Future Apple software is dead to me unless by some miracle they pull their heads out and are able to turn their current direction around.

It's like Cook and Co. have set their sites on failure and can't see anything until the numbers start to drop. Which of course, they will, maybe not soon...definitely not this year, but they will and when they do, there will be a mass migration the size of which you haven't seen since Apple released the iPhone and Jobs will not be back to save them.

Just my thoughts. Take it or leave it.
Ditching Lion and Mountain Lion for Snow Leopard is not a downgrade, its an upgrade. OS X 10.7 and 10.8 being bloated turd OSes is spot on. I've got 4 laptops in my house, all of which recently got fresh installs of OS X 10.6.8 and all of them run significantly better than Mountain Lion.

What Apple's done with OS X is put out an amazing operating system over a decade ago and taken huge DUMP on it. This whole notion that apple seems to think consumers want an iPadified OS is ridiculous. Leave that garbage for the computer illiterate and the people who do more than just facebook should have a proper MACHINE.

I've been calling out apple for their psychotic obsession of limiting options for consumers, but for some reason when I voice this FACT there is always a hoard of minions blasting me for it.... as if the proposal to do more with a computer was ever a bad thing.

I'm with you on everything you said, I've got an early 2011 MacBook Pro, I wouldnt dare sell it for anything newer, I hate 10.7 and 10.8.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:20 AM   #114
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Lacie Rugged 128GB SSD

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Originally Posted by afd View Post
Me too. How do-able is the SSD? I seem to remember reading that the HD used some custom cable with a heat sensor or something?

this seems a nice options for us 2011 iMac owners:

http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10599

199$ for a 128gb ssd connected through TB (supplied with the drive) isn't bad for a fast external boot drive (and it doesn't harm your extended warranty if you have one).

peace
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:22 AM   #115
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This is nothing new. The old iMac G5 17inch had RAM only soldered on to the logic board. The 21inch had RAM on the logic board and one slot.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:37 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
The only people that seem to need gobs of RAM are

Servers that are heavily used
Design
Multiple VMs
Sound and music. Even 32GB is too little for some who use EWQL instruments and other gigantic packages. A selection of specific instruments at 1.5GB each quickly add up when you basically need a small orchestra.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:50 AM   #117
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As someone that spends a fair bit of time on foot with a laptop, smaller and lighter is always a great thing.

But a desktop? Who the heck cares if it's this thin after the initial 'Wow, cool' reaction? Form over function is poor design not good design.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 04:14 AM   #118
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I'm assuming you're joking.

Battery life in a desktop system? Are you referring to the battery life of the UPS?
Yes sorry my APC UPS.

Last edited by dejo; Oct 27, 2012 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Restoring damaged post.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 04:27 AM   #119
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So now they finally did it! They introduced the "iPad Maxi" (Steve would NEVER have allowed this!).

Anyone has a clue of when we'll see updated iMacs?
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 04:49 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by milo View Post
Shouldn't the model with 4 slots be able to handle 4x16= 64 gigs of ram?
Assuming the chipset Apple used supports it, yes.

Apple's historically under-rated what their machines can actually handle.

Quote:
I think the lack of an optical drive is more off putting than soldered in memory. I can understand getting rid of it on a portable, you can plug in a USB drive when you need it, but on a desktop if you ever need it you'd plug it in and leave it cluttering up your desk, filling up a USB port. Plenty of us want to watch a DVD, or rip it, rip a cd a losslessy or burn a cd or DVD.
Especially given the "feature" that allows you to use "another computer's optical drive for your MacBook Air/Retina Pro etc".... count the iMac out as that computer :/

Anyone still asking about Blu-Ray?

Quote:
They still make 5400 rpm drives?
Lower power consumption, potentially larger numbers of platters/more HDD space, less heat.... and especially in a 2.5" form factor... uh, yes.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBug2 View Post
This is the first iMac which makes me consider switching to iMac when I "upgrade" my Mac Pro. 32GB Ram and GTX680MX should be enough for several years. The only question I have now is about the fan noise. I love the silentness of my Mac Pro and can't really trade that off.
>_> If you're thinking about an iMac, you never needed a Mac Pro....

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by till213 View Post
So now they finally did it! They introduced the "iPad Maxi" (Steve would NEVER have allowed this!).

Anyone has a clue of when we'll see updated iMacs?
Nah, this is old news..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs (Predates the actual iPad, lol).
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 05:06 AM   #121
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Is this real now? A new iMac? or another rumor!

Scrub that, just seen it on Apple. OMG, it's sooo thin! That's on my buy list for sure.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 05:07 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamcha View Post
At least the graphics card is faster, the 640M is slightly faster then the 6770M..
According to this guy in another topic that is not the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagless View Post
2011 27" GPU: 6970M - 3Dmark score: 2821
2012 27" GPU: 660M - 3Dmark score: 2320
My messages were before Apple updated the store here, before we knew they had other GPU options. So that is the reasoning behind that. There are your real facts. Can I remove the mic now?
So I don't know now which one is better. I'll have to research it more I think. And I've read people say it's same story for 6770M vs 640M.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 05:20 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by baryon View Post
Is the 16 GB RAM upgrade online fairly priced though?
For the new Mini going from 4GB -> 16GB (8GB x 2) is
$300 in the US
$360 in Australia.

From Ram City (random Australian site I use) I can get the 8GB sticks for $75 a pop. That's $150 for 16GB. Or a little under 50% of Apple's prices.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 05:31 AM   #124
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People sure do love to complain about Apple, but then the next day, the world keeps turning and we all manage. If you need a computer with 16GB of memory, and let's be honest, very few do, get it preinstalled. If you want a more powerful machine, with higher options, get the 27". It's not as fun as whining about Apple, but it will let you get your extreme, memory-intensive work done.
Not everyone can afford a 27" or wants a 27" screen. I for one don't. For me the 21.5" size is perfect. It is not upgrade time for me any time soon. I own a 2011 21.5". But If trends continue I'll have to seriously think about this. This new line of upgrades are not a simple, newer is better. To me it's more a side grade. Some things better, some not better. I'd have to really think about it.

And about 16GB RAM. I don't need 16 GB now. But I have 16 GB now. Was cheap ti buy 3rd party. And I don't know if in the future I will need 16 GB or not. It's nice to know if I ever do, the RAM is there.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 06:21 AM   #125
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Great news. This means I can buy a discounted 2011 model with no fear that the latest version is more powerful. If Apple continue to focus on thinner rather than better I may never have to upgrade again!
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