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Old Oct 23, 2012, 06:51 PM   #126
insider-man
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Originally Posted by xanagu View Post
They copied this from Google
Erm no they didn't.

I am very surprised this "news" as this has always been the Apple policy. If you buy any Apple product which is the made out of date due to a new release of hardware with 30 days you can return it.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 06:51 PM   #127
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And yes, I'm planning on upgrading to the 4th generation iPad whenever the cellular models are available. Given current pricing for used models, I stand to lose around $100. If I buy at Best Buy, I have $40 in Reward Zone certificates I can use that shrinks that number down further. It'll be nice to have that A6X chip.

Having used the iPhone 5 for a couple weeks now, it's abundantly clear to me that the A6 chip makes a bigger impact on everyday usage than any other iOS device upgrade I've seen, and I've seen them all. I've never been more impressed by an upgrade than I have by what that chip has done for iOS. I used to think that iOS had bugs that caused it to oftentimes "chug along" in the process of mostly "just working." But now I'm convinced that the iOS software has just been a bit too far ahead of the iOS hardware. With that A6 chip, for the first time the "it just works" of iOS seems appropriate without a modification statement. It'll be great to have it in the iPad.

After all, if you upgrade and sell right away, you minimize your losses. I look at the iPad at this point like something I paid a down payment for and then $12.50 a month for a "support contract," but with this "support contract," I always have new one year warranties and I get upgraded devices on day one. I stopped going to Starbucks years ago, but I know many people who blow way more than $12.50 a month on premium coffee or other frivolous purchases. I budget a bit of that money I'd blow at a bar or on overpriced coffee and I use it to keep updated iOS devices in my hands with active warranties. I'd rather take my own coffee to work at this point anyways; it's way better than Starbucks for a 1/10 of the price! It's all not so unreasonable if you keep a budget, and it sure makes these product upgrades much easier to swallow.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 06:54 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by AgentElliot007 View Post
I think it's pretty clear they want to get all the iOS mobile devices on the fall timeline, which makes sense with iOS getting updated in the fall as well. Debut a new iOS and new iPhones, iPods and iPads along with it. Macs in the summer, and I'm betting on a TV-oriented spring, whether it's an actual Apple TV set or a more powerful Apple TV box. Plus, as far as engineering goes, it makes sense to get the iOS mobile devices released around the same time. They have a lot more in common internally than not, and now the chips can be refreshed on a more straightforward schedule.

In any event, I bought the iPad 3rd gen. on day one like I've bought every other iPad so far on day one, and while it irks me a little more right now that they're updating it earlier than usual, I get why they're doing it if only because of the switch to Lightning, but as said, I'd imagine that the iPad will be permanently refreshed in the fall. I don't expect a 5th generation iPad until next October at this point.

So, why the A6X? Well, the A5X is the weak spot on the iPad 3rd generation, clearly. If they're not going to update it again until next October, they needed to get that A6 chip in the thing sooner rather than later, so why not do that now when they also refresh it for the Lightning adapter? What else are they going to do in the near-future outside of bumping up the internals? The form factor will improve at some point, but I'd bet we're still a ways away from that.

Basically, if they were to just put this out in the Spring with the 4th generation specs, it'd be a disappointing upgrade, but as a product refresh, it's great. Now they have a year and a half between major releases to focus on a more dramatic overhaul if they indeed go that route.

So yeah, it's a little annoying right now, but I think long-term it's for the best. I think it'd have been far worse if the iPad was stuck on that A5X until next fall if they do indeed keep with a fall refresh moving forward.

^^^ THAT THAT THAT


finally someone who agrees with me that the A5X is the iPad 3's weak spot

i bought my iPad 3 on October 3. i am going to go to the Apple Store on Thursday and hope for the best
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 06:57 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Sherret View Post
Oooo this is interesting. I've just been given a iPad3 just Friday there, 19th October, for my 21st birthday. Wonder if they'll do this in the UK?
Why don't you just try to return it and then grab the 4th one when it ones out ? You're within the 14 day return policy!
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:00 PM   #130
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I love that I can look at the posting history of some of the folks in this thread who claim Apple ripped them off with this new iPad; however they posted in other threads that they hate Apple for making their accessories obsolete with the lightening adapter. XD
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:01 PM   #131
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I absolutely love my iPad 3. It is super-fast, the display is beautiful, and it does just about everything I use it for really, really well.

However, one thing has been troubling me about it. My iPad gets super-super hot. So hot, in fact, that I can't hold it unless I stick it inside a large, thick case to insulate my hands from the heat.

Under Applecare, I've already received one replacement. But the new one runs just as hot.

I'm wondering whether the upgraded model fixes this problem.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:12 PM   #132
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I must be missing something. When can I order a iPad 4?
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:12 PM   #133
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I don't feel the release of a new retina ipad today was a scam. I think the scam of this presentation was introducing the ipad mini as a new product, when it is basically a smaller ipad 2.
Basically it is a different product. Smaller size, but with a higher ppi higher then the iPad 2. While not a retina display, the increased ppi wil make the screen a bit more sharper.

Quote:
Wether or not this is a clever strategy, only time will tell, but I do see the company falling into the same sort of product fragmentation it suffered from before Steve's return in the mid 90's. The ipad mini may be light and look pretty, but hardware wise it's rubbish for today's standards and even for Apple's own standards.
I think some aspects they did help prevent fragmentation with the Ipad Mini. They kept the same resolution, so not to have developers to come out with two different versions. Obviously the Retina display is a different story.

Some aspects of the iPad Mini spec wise is about the same or less compared to the iPad 2, mostly to compete more price wise with the lower priced Android tablets. Would not call it rubbish by any means.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:20 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by RJCP View Post
Yes, excellent point about the laptops. They are getting extremely diverse with retina ones, non retina ones... What will happen when they update the MBAs to retina in a couple of months? Will you also have the non retina ones available?

I think Apple could really push the market forward if they introduced retina as the norm for their laptop lines. I understand the challenges of Retina displays on the iMac line, but if they can already make 13" and 15" retina laptops and 10" retina tablet computers, what is stopping them, other than greed, from releasing retina MacBook Air?

The point about QC you mention is inherent to the whole process of expansion. The more you start multiplying your production lines with several factories and all, the more QC is bound to suffer. I don't know how it is managed at Apple's manufacturers, but in my opinion, Apple should have a QC team trained in the company's headquarters and totally independent of Foxconn and the remaining manufacturers. That would be the only way of assuring a standard quality control guided by the same basic guidelines.
It'll get there. I imagine in the next 18-24 months that the mid-level models will get Retina displays as well, though I wouldn't be surprised if a higher-level "Pro" option remains with enhanced processing and graphics capabilities. And I don't think that greed has anything to do with putting retina screens in the Air lineup. I think it's clear that it boils down to graphics and battery, and the Air currently doesn't have the power or battery to handle a retina display. Hell, haven't people been saying that even the MacBook Pro seems to be struggling a bit to effectively push all those pixels around?

I also strongly doubt that they're producing these at a fast enough rate to put them in the Airs, and when production is slow going, pricing is going to be at a premium, hence another factor as to why the retina models cost significantly more right now. As they get better at making them and chips increase performance while decreasing power consumption, the Airs will get retina displays, but I'd be surprised if that happened even next year, though it's certainly possible.

But can we really say the laptops are getting crowded when essentially you still only have 3 models? Air, MacBook Pro and MacBook Pro with Retina? I don't know if it's really as crowded as it is awkward. What would've made more sense if they hadn't kept the current MacBook Pro lineup mostly the same is have the MacBook Air, a MacBook, and then the MacBook Pro featuring the retina displays. If the lineup was named like that, I don't know if it'd look as awkward as it does now, and I'm not sure it'd look so crowded.

I think 3 price points/feature sets for a product category is pretty reasonable. Sure, there are a lot of options and variations, but generally speaking, we have an iPhone 4, and iPhone 4S and an iPhone 5. Now there's an iPad Mini, the iPad 2 and iPad with Retina Display. MacBook Air, MacBook Pro and MacBook Pro with Retina Display. Then there's the iMac, with just 21.5" iMac and 27" iMac. If I was a betting man, I'd venture to guess that at some point next year, we'll see an iMac with Retina Display added into the mix. Maybe they'll split the difference and have a single 24" iMac Pro with Retina Display. Who knows. In any event, the core product lines are still pretty streamlined compared to most companies. I don't think having a lot of SKUs in terms of variations on a core product is the same as the excessive SKUs other companies deal with the Jobs cited as problematic.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:24 PM   #135
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Very nice gesture to extend the return period.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:29 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
Basically it is a different product. Smaller size, but with a higher ppi higher then the iPad 2. While not a retina display, the increased ppi wil make the screen a bit more sharper.



I think some aspects they did help prevent fragmentation with the Ipad Mini. They kept the same resolution, so not to have developers to come out with two different versions. Obviously the Retina display is a different story.

Some aspects of the iPad Mini spec wise is about the same or less compared to the iPad 2, mostly to compete more price wise with the lower priced Android tablets. Would not call it rubbish by any means.
And since when is the iPad 2 a poor performer? If anything, in day to day use, I'd say it's easily on par with the 3rd generation iPad which struggles at times to feel as snappy having to push all those pixels. It also ways less than half as much as a normal iPad and is obscenely thin. While I'll stick with full-size models with retina display for personal use, I can totally see the appeal of a device with a smaller screen that weighs as little as that thing. I don't think that anyone will be able to appreciate the difference until they hold the thing in their hands. It may be quite similar to an iPad 2, but to be able to outperform an iPad 2 even slightly with that form-factor is quite impressive, and it's still $70 cheaper.

I thought $329 was high when I first heard the rumor, but after considering it further, it really seems about right. As much as the idea of a $199 iPad Mini sounds nice, I don't think people would really want it. The compromises that would have to be made to get it down to that price point would hurt performance as well as fit and finish without a doubt, and that's what makes the iPad great. Amazon is playing a different game with the Fire, as is Google. They make no money on the hardware if they're not losing money. Amazon might find a way to pull it off down the line, but I doubt Google's model is sustainable given that their entire revenue stream comes from ads, and I just don't think that business will continue to work as well for them in the future.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:32 PM   #137
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That's very kind of Apple but they should offer 30 days which is industry standard and we'd hear a lot less anger. I trusted the rumors as I realized a holiday season with the iPad3 being alone with an old dock let alone the CPU has been trashed as too weak.

So I got my refund.

Why then am I not buying the iPAD4? Simple, the iPad4 also was a reaction to the MS Surface RT, hence the dreadful dongle for taking a camera SD card...this means MS Surface Pro comes out 2013 which means an iPAD5 will have to come out to offer more than just a 4K Retina offering 1 billion by 2billion.

Apple will sell a ton of iPad Minis but not iPad4 nor the iPod Touch.......and my Nexus 7" case, unlike all Apple products does not scratch because it's made of plastic. I love using my Nexus. My wife loves her Nokia Lumia 900...the world is changing and Apple really did not need this bad PR.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
Very nice gesture to extend the return period.
30 days is not nice it's industry standard, even HP offers that, even MS Surface RT comes with a 30 day no fuss return. Only Apple, I think, offers a miserly 14 days which is why I had to get my refund under the wire this last Sunday.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:34 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by yakapo View Post
just out of curiosity, when you bring in your ipad for replacement (apple care), do they give you a brand new one?

If yes, I wonder how long until they run out of the "old" Ipad 3's. =D
If your iPhone 3GS needs a swap at the Genius Bar they still have plenty of fresh ones available, so I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:40 PM   #139
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,,

All this complaint about the new iPad has to be ludicrous... I mean, it's just a little spec bump.. no one forces you to upgrade. I am amazed on how people take so personally the fact that the product they have just bought has been slightly redesigned.. i mean, what was great 4 months ago still remains fairly good right now.. just because there is a new one out there doesn't mean that the one you have is outdated.

The mini is a great deal. at least for students... All these mature iBoys only use their ipads for porn, some mild app'ing and to read the news.. you dont care about size and weight as much as we do. having this kind of portability at such a "low" price is for me a must.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:43 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
As soon as Phil mentioned the "new" 4th Gen iPad, my 3rd Gen exploded in the other room ... no AppleCare either ...
LOL! nice one!
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:48 PM   #141
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Given Apple's strict penchant for uniformity and control, I am surprised individual stores are given this type of liberty, to adjust a return policy on their own terms.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:55 PM   #142
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It's not possible. 2 million iPads sold for 30 days x $499 = $1 billion loss.

Edit) Apple can sell refurbished iPads for $379. Therefore, $499 - $379 - $30(refurbish cost) = $150 x 2 millions = $300 millions loss.
I don't think you understand how business works.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:56 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by henjin View Post
That's very kind of Apple but they should offer 30 days which is industry standard and we'd hear a lot less anger. I trusted the rumors as I realized a holiday season with the iPad3 being alone with an old dock let alone the CPU has been trashed as too weak.

So I got my refund.

Why then am I not buying the iPAD4? Simple, the iPad4 also was a reaction to the MS Surface RT, hence the dreadful dongle for taking a camera SD card...this means MS Surface Pro comes out 2013 which means an iPAD5 will have to come out to offer more than just a 4K Retina offering 1 billion by 2billion.

Apple will sell a ton of iPad Minis but not iPad4 nor the iPod Touch.......and my Nexus 7" case, unlike all Apple products does not scratch because it's made of plastic. I love using my Nexus. My wife loves her Nokia Lumia 900...the world is changing and Apple really did not need this bad PR.

----------



30 days is not nice it's industry standard, even HP offers that, even MS Surface RT comes with a 30 day no fuss return. Only Apple, I think, offers a miserly 14 days which is why I had to get my refund under the wire this last Sunday.
They've always had a camera card adapter for the iPad, just not a Lightning one. They said they were coming at the iPhone announcement. And if you really think Apple is even remotely concerned about the Microsoft Surface, you have severely misjudged the situation. I mean, seriously, at this point, with 100 million iPads sold in two and a half years, that anyone suggests that Apple is concerned about competition is, well, it's just unfortunate...and profoundly wrong. That it would come from Microsoft at this stage in the game is just laughable. I'm trying to be nice, but it takes an awful lot of reality distortion to suggest and believe that Apple's worried about a product that hasn't even been released yet that has next to no developer backing and a mobile phone counterpart that has so-far failed to do anything but fail in the marketplace.

And don't get me wrong, I actually think Windows Phone OS's have been pretty nice since Windows Phone 7 and and there's a part of me that would like Microsoft to succeed as I'm hardly a Microsoft hater like some and I think they're doing interesting things. But the reality of the matter is that they're getting nowhere with phones, and they're unlikely to get far in tablets with no developer backing. Look how much Android's struggled in the tablet space and at least there they have a lot of phone apps they can blow up and shamefully call tablet apps, but Microsoft doesn't even have that to fall on.

For better or for worse, I don't think there's a tablet market so much as an iPad market. I think real competition would be good, and I honestly think Microsoft's product as well as Palms Web OS were/are really nice options, but consumers didn't/don't seem to agree. I'd be utterly and completely shocked if that changed with the surface. And I don't think the iPad 4th generation is the result of reacting to competition at all so much as altering the release schedule and refreshing the product with the Lightning adapter and a new chip while they're at it to extend it's life an extra six months if they don't release a 5th generation until next October, which I think is very, very likely.

iPod Touches are for kids and sell well considering the success of the iPhone. I don't think Apple cares that iPhone sales are killing the iPod line. And I don't expect much of a bump for the 4th generation iPad as it's not a major release, but it'll have the same strong sales it's had the last couple years over the holiday and continue to be steady down the stretch. It's not going to go belly up. Only nerds notice much of a difference between these products, and thankfully, there aren't 100 million of us to whine about it on a message board.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:57 PM   #144
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Reminds me of when Apple notoriously dropped the price of the iPhone by $200 back in 2007. I had purchased one 14 days before the price drop, but the Soho Apple Store waived the exchange time policy for me to essentially return my phone and take advantage of the lower price.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 08:00 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by elvetio View Post
All this complaint about the new iPad has to be ludicrous... I mean, it's just a little spec bump.. no one forces you to upgrade. I am amazed on how people take so personally the fact that the product they have just bought has been slightly redesigned.. i mean, what was great 4 months ago still remains fairly good right now.. just because there is a new one out there doesn't mean that the one you have is outdated.

The mini is a great deal. at least for students... All these mature iBoys only use their ipads for porn, some mild app'ing and to read the news.. you dont care about size and weight as much as we do. having this kind of portability at such a "low" price is for me a must.
Half the people who use message boards for anything simply use it as a place to bitch and moan about things they ultimately love. I don't really understand the point, but you see it everywhere. Some people enjoy discussing stuff they're enthused about. Some people just like to whine and reinforce the idea that someone's out to personally make their lives difficult. It's just silliness.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 08:09 PM   #146
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How about my ipad 3 bought Sept. 3 and still unopened? Think they will work with me.
Just got back from apple store, they gave me apple card for $499
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 08:17 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by realeric View Post
It's not possible. 2 million iPads sold for 30 days x $499 = $1 billion loss.

Edit) Apple can sell refurbished iPads for $379. Therefore, $499 - $379 - $30(refurbish cost) = $150 x 2 millions = $300 millions loss.
Don't ever get into a profession that involves complex equations. You forgot to account for shipping, cost to resell, probable percentage of devices returned, etc.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 08:31 PM   #148
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I wonder how many people would get upset if they bought a $30,000 car only to find out that the engine gained double the horsepower at the same cost after being on the market for only 7 months.

Apple is doing a power move on your wallets. They know Apple faithful will pony up the cash just in time for the holidays. Next February/March is not going to be the same without an Apple announcement.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 08:44 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by MultiMediaWill View Post
Can we get a 6 month window for those who get scammed by Apple back in March?
You knew what you were getting when you got your iPad right? You got what you thought it was right?

Not a scam.

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Originally Posted by cdmoore74 View Post
I wonder how many people would get upset if they bought a $30,000 car only to find out that the engine gained double the horsepower at the same cost after being on the market for only 7 months.

Apple is doing a power move on your wallets. They know Apple faithful will pony up the cash just in time for the holidays. Next February/March is not going to be the same without an Apple announcement.
Depending on when you got it, that could happen all the time.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 08:48 PM   #150
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I dont understand how this is news. Apple stores are always pretty lenient on their return policy. I returned my IR-ridden-display-replaced-3-times rMBP15 when it was well into 6 weeks of my purchase.

That's enough for most people not to be exasperated (although i was a bit persistent with bothering the Apple Store managers around me until one of them admitted they had a system which they could find me a Samsung display )
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