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Old Oct 24, 2012, 01:55 AM   #1
masp84
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Why the new iMac sucks so much!

i5: I grant it for the base model, but the remaining 3 should have i7 BASE NO BTO as we find in the MBPs, why Apple doesn't get it? it's unethical to make profit from HT benefits when the processors costs about the same and there's no customization due from their behalf. We're talking about desktop PC's not an iToy so there's a concept involved. We already know many sacrifices are made to keep the all-in-one box design alive but why making even more? the "space" issue was already taken care of IMO and current iMacs still look superb if not the same compared to the new ones seen from the front. So wtf is doing a tablet on a stick with already old technology at such a high price?

Why stinging on power/price and sacrificing flexibility? I don't really get it, Apple's failing to deliver the processing power that makes the difference between mobile devices and PC's, Some might say they're more light consumer oriented, so what are the iPads and laptops for? What's that expensive screen doing in a prosumer desktop?

Give me a break. I'm an audio producer and the 2011 was excellent for many tasks. Also most of professional audio interfaces use FW800 as STANDARD, others use it for storage etc as TB option is still expensive at the moment, USB 2.0 is crap for this task and USB 3.0 isn't available for MAC's even today as we wait for the release. Now one is supposed to buy converters, cables, hubs, and external ODD which really defeats the whole idea of an "all in one". not only that but (5400 rpm) Hard drives on the gimped 21"... are you freaking kidding me? @#$=)(#$ those are like freaking 20 years old!!!

No optical drive when I expected at least a bump to Blue-ray, ye ya Apple hates Sony but they can't reflect it on today's consumers by any means, that isn't ethical. All in all no improvements on this field but a major step back.

Why limiting customization and maintenance even more? Fixed RAM on the 21 not serviceable HDD... We yelled at Apple about it!!! even an Xbox is more efficient in this matter and that's ridiculous if we're talking about a personal computer. The overall design of the product and the PC concept was defused by this refresh before time, iMacs are even farther from being "all in one" now, the price to performance ratio is also outrageous, denying entry to prosumers whom can't afford a Mac Pro neither find it necessary, and refuse to be forced to spend 3k on a 27" maxed out model to get the regular specs all current basic desktop of today should have.

Thinness was an answer for a question no one asked for.

Lastly it's been 563 days since an actual refresh and counting

Last edited by masp84; Nov 14, 2012 at 02:48 PM.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 02:28 AM   #2
lizardofwoz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masp84 View Post
i5: I grant it for the base model, but the remaining 3 should have i7 BTOs, why Apple doesn't get it? it's unethical to make profit from HT benefits when the processors costs about the same and there's no customization due from their part in any way. We're talking about desktop PC's not an iToy. We already know many sacrifices are made to keep the all-in-one box concept alive, why making even more? the "space" issue was already taken care of IMO and current iMacs still look superb compared to the new ones. So wtf is doing a tablet on a stick with already old technology at such a high price?

Why stinging on power and sacrificing flexibility? I don't really get it, Apple's failing to deliver the processing power that makes the difference between mobile devices and PC's, Some might say they're more light consumer oriented, so what are the iPads and laptops for? Give me a break. I'm an audio producer and many professional audio interfaces use FW800, others use it for storage etc. Now one is supposed to buy a converter and lose a TB port, not only that but (5400 rpm) Hard drives... are you freaking kidding me? @#$=)(#$. No optical drive when I expected at least a bump to Blue-ray, today I'm being forced to pay for like 80 bucks just to be able to burn my music sacrificing an USB port as well. No eSATA, Fewer USB ports. All in all no improvements on this field but a major step back.

Why limiting customization and maintenance even more? Soldered RAM, not serviceable hard drive... We yelled at Apple about it!!! even an Xbox is more efficient in this matter and that's ridiculous if we're talking about a personal computer. The overall design of the product and its concept was defused by this refresh, iMacs are even farther from being "all in one" now, the price to performance ratio is also outrageous, denying entry to professional users who can't afford a Mac Pro and won't spend 3k on a 27" maxed out model.

Screw Apple, they're evil.
Everything you say is absolutely true, BUT...

Think how marvelous it is for it to be THINNER.

Thinner is GOD. Too bad about the actual users... THINNER!

So important for a non-portable desktop machine seen from the front.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 02:34 AM   #3
theSeb
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The majority of you don't need an i7 CPU. I don't think you guys realise how powerful desktop CPUs are these days, even the i5 variants. Soldered RAM is only on the 21.5" model. Apple has never been keen on having user-serviceable computers so there is nothing new there.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 02:38 AM   #4
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You expected a Bluray drive? Was never going to happen. The i5 thing is surprising, but even so they are still powerful, with a good turbo boost.

The iMac is literally updated version of the last one. They obviously see the 21inch as a consumer model and so have made that less configurable. For more than 95% of their iMac consumer base these machines are more than ok.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 02:43 AM   #5
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Apple can never please everyone. There will be people wanting more specs, and people who wants form over function. I just want Mac OSX and I'll take whatever box it comes in.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 02:43 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by masp84 View Post
tablet on a stick
Pretty much sums it all up!
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 02:46 AM   #7
theSeb
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Pretty much sums it all up!
Yes, all tablets run Nvidia Kepler GPUs and Intel desktop quad core CPUs!

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Old Oct 24, 2012, 02:51 AM   #8
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Please read my post: I'm an audio producer i5 over i7 is a huge factor because of hyperthreading, it almost doubles DAW's performance. Why won't you complain about your needs not being attended rather than settling for a PC that could be so much better? There was no need to limit the target to just regular consumers and I'm just very disappointed. I could see the Mac Pro disappearing in the future but now we're rather forced to buy it. Before the refresh, I wanted from the iMac to continue to be a viable choice and I reckon I expected way more than what I received.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:01 AM   #9
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I agree with OP but not surprised and sadly I've accepted it because I'm a Mac user for life and will never, even though I tried going back to Windows.

At the end it's business.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:01 AM   #10
theSeb
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Originally Posted by masp84 View Post
Please read my post: I'm an audio producer i5 over i7 is a huge factor because of hyperthreading, it almost doubles DAW's performance. Why won't you complain about your needs not being attended rather than settling for a PC that could be so much better? There was no need to limit the target to just regular consumers and I'm just very disappointed. I could see the Mac Pro disappearing in the future but now we're rather forced to buy it. Before the refresh, I wanted from the iMac to continue to be a viable choice and I reckon I expected way more than what I received.
Both the 21.5" and the 27" models have i7 options, as before

21.5" options:

2.9GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 processor (Turbo Boost up to 3.6GHz) with 6MB L3 cache

Configurable to 3.1GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 (Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz).

The 3.1 GHz in the 21.5" is the i7 3770s. It supports hyperthreading

http://ark.intel.com/products/65524/...up-to-3_90-GHz

Do you need to sit down in the naughty corner for a bit to calm down and start this discussion again? This looks like the exact same line-up as before, with Ivy Bridge CPUs that are slightly faster. I am not following your posts, because you're raving like an uninformed lunatic that has not even bothered to actually look at the specifications.
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Last edited by theSeb; Oct 24, 2012 at 03:06 AM.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:08 AM   #11
jaina
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Sadly, you can't buy your home PC hardware from Apple

Apple has had a huge gaping hole in between iMac and MacPro for a long time.
The problem is also virtually solved for me for several years now :-)

The solution starts with Tony and ends with x86.

It's definitely not for everyone, but if you were "everyone" you would probably not have these kinds of specific wishes.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:09 AM   #12
Kutuzov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theSeb View Post
Both the 21.5" and the 27" models have i7 options, as before

21.5" options:

2.9GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 processor (Turbo Boost up to 3.6GHz) with 6MB L3 cache

Configurable to 3.1GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 (Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz).

The 3.1 GHz in the 21.5" is the i7 3770s. It supports hyperthreading

http://ark.intel.com/products/65524/...up-to-3_90-GHz

Do you need to sit down in the naughty corner for a bit to calm down and start this discussion again? This looks like the exact same line-up as before, with Ivy Bridge CPUs that are slightly faster. I am not following your posts, because you're raving like an uninformed lunatic that has not even bothered to actually look at the specifications.
I agree with this very much.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:10 AM   #13
MoreAwesomeDanU
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honestly, ever since the 2nd generation core i series, unless you are doing EXTREME rendering, which an iMac is a wrong choice to start off with, nobody actually NEEDS an i7 setup.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:20 AM   #14
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I think they don't suck, as they do not exist. At least, not for a while. I think there might be 3000 lucky Americans who get one before Christmas, but the others will have to wait to 2013 for delivery. You can't order them too.
So at the moment there is just 1 desktop Mac to buy from Apple:
The Mini 2.6Ghz BTO i7.
It is faster than all base iMacs (if they come) and faster then the entry MacPro, at just 899. Apple never made it easier to choose!
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:20 AM   #15
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Yes, all tablets run Nvidia Kepler GPUs and Intel desktop quad core CPUs!

Given the space available with 21.5" and 27" display? Yes. It's an iPad runs on nVidia GPU and quad i5/i7 CPU.

It's still tablet on a stick. I clapped OP for that one nice summary.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:38 AM   #16
masp84
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Originally Posted by theSeb View Post
Both the 21.5" and the 27" models have i7 options, as before

21.5" options:

2.9GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 processor (Turbo Boost up to 3.6GHz) with 6MB L3 cache

Configurable to 3.1GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 (Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz).

The 3.1 GHz in the 21.5" is the i7 3770s. It supports hyperthreading

http://ark.intel.com/products/65524/...up-to-3_90-GHz

Do you sit down in the naughty corner for a bit to calm down and start this discussion again? This looks like the exact same line-up as before, with Ivy Bridge CPUs that are slightly faster. I am not following your posts, because you're raving like an uninformed lunatic that has not even bothered to actually look at the specifications.
Lol you're right but it'd cost me about the same than a 27" i7 3.4Ghz iMac, and that's how the true impact of the refresh should be measured. USB 3.0 is not that important neither a 333Mhz memory boost when we're going back to 5400 rpm hard drives, we lost more than we won in general when gear pricing wasn't really a matter to satisfy us all and with Retina out of the game. You have the choices available as it escalates with unfair pricing adding to the the fact that you're actually more limited than before.

I've built PC's all my life. Soldered stuff is a PITA when you push things up and heat plays a big role when doing intensive work. The most demanded spare part of any computer brand is RAM. This is a fact! your "Don't worry man you can get a maxed out 27" iMac" is insulting.

Quote:
honestly, ever since the 2nd generation core i series, unless you are doing EXTREME rendering, which an iMac is a wrong choice to start off with, nobody actually NEEDS an i7 setup
For the ones who don't know it iMacs i7 are great for DAW's, it's the cheapest entry choice for the audio producer

----------

[/COLOR]
Quote:
Originally Posted by blanka View Post
I think they don't suck, as they do not exist. At least, not for a while. I think there might be 3000 lucky Americans who get one before Christmas, but the others will have to wait to 2013 for delivery. You can't order them too.
So at the moment there is just 1 desktop Mac to buy from Apple:
The Mini 2.6Ghz BTO i7.
It is faster than all base iMacs (if they come) and faster then the entry MacPro, at just 899. Apple never made it easier to choose!
Can you add RAM to the MINI?
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:42 AM   #17
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I think you are missing the point, these are Apple's consumer (home) lines, and for 90% of users they are fine. If you are a professional then these may not be the machines for you.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:42 AM   #18
theSeb
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Yes, you can add RAM to the Mini.

I am not sure where you get your pricing from, but I can't see how the i7 21.5 will cost as much as the 2011 27" 3.4 GHz BTO.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:43 AM   #19
masp84
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Yes, you can add RAM to the Mini.

I am not sure where you get your pricing from, but I can't see how the i7 21.5 will cost as much as the 2011 27" 3.4 GHz BTO.
Ebay

If I can buy 16GB of RAM and stick 'em myself into the MINI I'll pull the trigger right now, could you confirm this please?
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:47 AM   #20
theSeb
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Ebay

If I can buy 16GB of RAM and stick 'em myself into the MINI I'll pull the trigger, could you confirm this please?
Yes, you can add 16 GBs to the 2011 Mini. (mid spec and quad core server model - I've not checked the base model). You need 2 x 8 GBs sticks 204 pin and so forth.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:48 AM   #21
masp84
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Yes, you can add 16 GBs to the 2011 Mini. (mid spec and quad core server model - I've not checked the base model). You need 2 x 8 GBs sticks 204 pin and so forth.
I'm talking about the new one
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:50 AM   #22
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I think they don't suck, as they do not exist. At least, not for a while. I think there might be 3000 lucky Americans who get one before Christmas, but the others will have to wait to 2013 for delivery. You can't order them too.
So at the moment there is just 1 desktop Mac to buy from Apple:
The Mini 2.6Ghz BTO i7.
It is faster than all base iMacs (if they come) and faster then the entry MacPro, at just 899. Apple never made it easier to choose!
why do you think it would have such a delay? haha

what did you hear
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:59 AM   #23
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5400 rpm HDD in new 2012 top line computer? apple, are you serious?? 21,5 model is dead before it reaches the store, who the hell would buy that machine???
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 04:05 AM   #24
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5400 rpm HDD in new 2012 top line computer? apple, are you serious?? 21,5 model is dead before it reaches the store, who the hell would buy that machine???
um is there really that much of a difference between 7200 and 5400 would the average user give a ****?
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 04:06 AM   #25
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um is there really that much of a difference between 7200 and 5400 would the average user give a ****?
Heh, nope! The average user don't even know what RPM stands for. ^^
But since when was the 21" ever a "prosumer" computer?
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