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Old Oct 25, 2012, 06:34 AM   #126
M-O
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impulse462 View Post
13" Air is better bang for the buck, honestly.
that all depends on how you value performance.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 06:39 AM   #127
nick_elt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertMartens View Post
I hate this 'Pro' word. It as absolutely no meaning and it is a waste of time repeating it again and again.

FileMaker became FileMaker Pro
Final Cut became Final Cut Pro

MacBook is Mac Book Pro
Mac ias Mac Pro

What for?
its just a term as vague as retina

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR999 View Post
Think its bad value at $1699?

It costs the equivalent of $2335 in the UK.

WOW
but in the us is it 1699 + tax?
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 06:41 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-O View Post
that all depends on how you value performance.
Well if you take the Pro over the Air, then you value the slight increase in performance at $500 apparently.

If money is no object to you, then the 15" Retina Pro is the one to get.

For everyone else, the 13" Air is the logical choice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_elt View Post
but in the us is it 1699 + tax?
If you take the tax off the UK price of the base model and convert it to dollars you get:

$1940

So it costs $241 (150) more if you buy it in the UK, even taking taxes into account.

Last edited by downpour; Oct 25, 2012 at 06:52 AM.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 06:52 AM   #129
Husky1992
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this may be the dullest ad in history
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 07:01 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
Right, because you cannot edit video or drive a couple of displays with the Intel 4000? Let me guess, you are a "pro" gamer?

If you can update the CPU to an i7 quad core, that is all you really need.

Show me a laptop with the resolution of the 13" MBP let alone the 15" model made by any other company. I'm waiting.

Seriously, you can edit 2K video with ease on either the 13" or 15" model and the latter can display close to 3K resolution giving you a pretty good idea of what 4K video will look like.

For non-gaming, the CPU, memory bandwidth and I/O speed is more of a factor than discrete graphics.

@KPOM: Don't mind Mr. Dee. He thinks that he needs discreet graphics to post faster to facebook.
And a $1600 machine overall is fine for Tweeting and Facebook posting? Think about that, you are paying $1600 if you think its just gonna be for Facebook posting? Wouldn't it be better to spend $299 on Chromebook for Facebook posting if that was all I wanted to accomplish? Don't assume or make a joke of things like this. Because at the end of the day, I am the one who is parting with my money, not you.

You might be a member of Rich Kids on Instagram, but I actually have a job that I work hard at to earn it to buy things I want unlike you who probably depends on Family Inheritance.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 07:11 AM   #131
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I noticed that they removed some of the hand-movements comparing it to the ad shown in the Keynote.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 07:12 AM   #132
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I'm pleased to see many people on here are starting to realise what Apple are becoming.

As much as I hate the idea, I wont be using them for a few years at the very least. I'll most likely get last years Mac Mini with dGPU and leave it at that.

They just dont appear to know what they want to achieve with all these new redesigned products.

For example, the new iPad is now like that fat girl from college with low self esteem. Sure, its great to use her occasionally, heck you might even become friends, but deep down you know that there are much better looking models available which would also allow you to show of to your friends about, instead of hiding away.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 07:21 AM   #133
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An entry computer for a "pro" price
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 07:31 AM   #134
whitecraine
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not worth it

Especially with the education discount being $200 on the mbpr 15" and only $100 on the 13", it's a no brainer which one is the better deal. Apple is wasting their time on these weak "pro" 13". $1999 +tax for the 15" is a pretty good deal considering quad core + dGPU + 256GB while the entry 13" mbpr has none of these.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 08:20 AM   #135
mkoesel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-O View Post
that all depends on how you value performance.
What performance is that exactly?

Just how much faster, really, is a rMBP 13", 8GB, HD4000, Dual Core I7 @ 2.9GHz/3.6GHz Turbo (max specs) than a MBA 13", HD4000, Dual Core I7 @ 2.0GHz/3.4GHz Turbo (max specs)?

I'd bet that, if you put them both in a black box using an external monitor for display only, and executed a bunch of typical personal and business tasks, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

And even if you used the built in displays, at an effective desktop area of 1280x800 for the rMBP, you are not going to see much improvement in productivity aside from being able to display more content resolution in a graphics or video app. You'll mostly just see a more beautiful image. Or, if you run the Pro at its maximum altenate resolution of 1680x1050 (no 1920x1080 without 3rd party app), you'll see a small benefit above the MBA's 1440x900. But who wants a tiny display at high DPI for those tasks anyway? In either case you plug in a TB display or two to get real work done.

Last edited by mkoesel; Oct 25, 2012 at 08:26 AM.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 08:24 AM   #136
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The Apple Tree has seen better days ...

The 13" rMBP is anything but a Pro Machine.

The 13" MPA high-end is a much better value considering all the factors.

The Retina Display is "OverRated" for a working laptop and obviously overvalued by Apple.

The PRO 13" Laptop Apple should have released:

Take the MMP 13" and place it in the new retina body. Add a discrete graphics card included by default. Make the retina display optional BUT increase the base display resolution to match that of the 13"MPA (higher resolution). Start with the 256GB SSD as the base with a starting price of $1400 <-- achievable by taking away the Retina Marketing gimmick.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 08:25 AM   #137
mkoesel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downpour View Post
For everyone else, the 13" Air is the logical choice.
I probably sound like a broken record now between this and the other thread, but why even take the weight penalty of the 13" Air? An extra 74 pixels of horizontal resolution? An extra 42 + 90 (the latter jump afforded by the move from 16:9 to 16:10) pixels of vertical resolution?

The friggin SD card reader??

Spec the 11" Air to match the 13' Air at max specs (utterly possibly to do for the smaller sibling inthe Air line - totally impossible for the smaller sibling in the pro line), and have a the ultimate in portable power.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 08:28 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by levitynyc View Post
1699 for a 13" laptop without a dedicate graphics card is batpoop insane.
Agreed. Plus no optical drive! Stoopid!
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 08:34 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
How so? It has the same processor as the classic 13" Pro. The 13" has never had a discrete GPU, nor has it ever had a quad-core processor. The display is nice. I agree it is a bit pricey, but it is in line with the Air when you consider the full voltage processor and higher resolution IPS display.
what good is a pretty picture if you can't move it around correctly?


intel 4000 won't cut it .

when next years haswell comes out with the intel 5000 graphics this machine will look so slow. I predict that in 15 months it will sell at a 50% discount which for apple is not good.

buying this machine will make a lot of people very sad in a few months.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 08:44 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
What's a "pro" gamer? Someone who hasn't got any other job?



You're talking about fanboys with problems in their marriage?

I suppose by now you all figured out that this constant moaning and whining gets on my nerves. Right now, a Retina display is a luxury item that you can only get from one computer maker, and it is priced as a luxury item.




Underpowered? Last time I looked, Dell doesn't sell any quad core laptops for less than the 13" Retina MBP. Please guys, come back to reality.
Agree 10000000%....

This constant complaining is utterly ridiculous. Apple has never released low-priced anything. A $329 mini is perfectly acceptable! The N7 doesn't give you access to over 275k tablet specific apps, Apple's best-in-class ecosystem, customer service and ease-of-use.

And what computer maker produces a 13" laptop with a quad core processor and dedicated graphics?? Maybe you could custom build one, but for the people who would be interested in this machine its perfect. Vastly thinner form, best screen in the industry, fast enough cpu and gpu for 99% of its target audience....

I think people complain just to complain....have some common sense!

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
what good is a pretty picture if you can't move it around correctly?


intel 4000 won't cut it .

when next years haswell comes out with the intel 5000 graphics this machine will look so slow. I predict that in 15 months it will sell at a 50% discount which for apple is not good.

buying this machine will make a lot of people very sad in a few months.
Being that MacBooks are generally updated twice a year, I doubt anyone (who cares about the things you guys are complaining about) will buy one now because they'll know when Haswell is to be released.

For those who don't know when Haswell is to be released (and just want an awesome laptop that's ultra portable) they won't care that the HD5000 is better - because the HD4000 and all other specs in the 13" rMBP will work just fine for them.

I swear, you "pros" think you're the only people on the planet and that Apple should cater to your every whim - when in reality, you make up about 5% of the buying populous....

That being said, I think $1599 would've been a more reasonable price - but then again just go buy it at Best Buy. You won't have the customization options (only the preset variations) but they always sell Macs cheaper (for the higher end stuff up to $150-$200 cheaper).
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 09:00 AM   #141
DrMotownMac
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Does anyone know who the actor is doing the voiceover? For some reason, that voice sounds familiar but I can't place it.... Eh, maybe it's just my imagination. But it really sounds familiar to me!
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 09:06 AM   #142
downpour
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
why even take the weight penalty of the 13" Air?
Because 11 inches is tiny. 13 is already close to being too small.

The price and weight difference between the two is negligible, so why not go for the bigger size?

Anything less than 1440 x 900 renders most applications unusable. Just try Photoshop on the 1280 x 800 (native equivalent) on the 13" Retina Pro to see what I mean. The panels just won't fit.

If you only use your laptop for the web, email etc, then really you should just get an iPad.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 09:07 AM   #143
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People still play games on their computers?

I say that jokingly. Sort of. I am an avid gamer and have been so since the early 90's. We're talking Doom, Quake and Unreal Tournament. I started gaming with a mouse and keyboard and could never quite make the transition to the hand controllers that come with XBox and PS's. The problem is that hacks for computer games like Call of Duty became so easy to install and prevalent that you couldn't even find a game where someone wasn't using the wall hack or, even worse, auto aim. So I sucked it up and bought a PS3. Heck, nowadays you can even use your mouse and keyboard with your console. I do! Not to mention the great system of hooking up with your friends when they go online to play a game. I think much like optical drives, computer gaming is going the way of the dodo bird.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 09:12 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
The top-of-the-line Air has been over $1699 for quite some time now.

Yeah, which doesn't have infant 128gb ssd.

.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 09:17 AM   #145
gpat
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Originally Posted by AlvinNguyen View Post
Seriously? The 15" MBP Retina Ad was WAY BETTER! It made me actually want to buy one. This new one is ... meh - strange how to very similar ads can be so radically different. Maybe it's because one is for a crap-speced high priced machine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmnlTUE8yQI
But then again, so was the object of the ad.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 09:23 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by skinnylegs View Post
People still play games on their computers?

I say that jokingly. Sort of. I am an avid gamer and have been so since the early 90's. We're talking Doom, Quake and Unreal Tournament. I started gaming with a mouse and keyboard and could never quite make the transition to the hand controllers that come with XBox and PS's. The problem is that hacks for computer games like Call of Duty became so easy to install and prevalent that you couldn't even find a game where someone wasn't using the wall hack or, even worse, auto aim. So I sucked it up and bought a PS3. Heck, nowadays you can even use your mouse and keyboard with your console. I do! Not to mention the great system of hooking up with your friends when they go online to play a game. I think much like optical drives, computer gaming is going the way of the dodo bird.
I would argue that PC gaming is growing. People don't buy games at brick and mortar stores anymore so you can't judge in that manner. Check out steam's stats, Warcraft / guild wars 2 sales. Hell even diablo 3's sales even though it was a dissappointment Certain games just don't work on consoles.

Can't speak for Cod but counter strike / valve is quite good at keeping the hackers at bay. Ugh fps on a console - yuck!

Throw in the fact that gaming pcs are getting increasingly inexpensive. I don't understand why apple hates gpus so much. I understand that they are reluctant to educate their consumers in fear that they may see the light and start building their own more powerful, higher value (bang for the buck)computers.

I must not be the target consumer because I just don't get it.
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Last edited by gotluck; Oct 25, 2012 at 09:41 AM.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 09:37 AM   #147
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You can see the person's hands in that ad as they type and work with the computer.... is that intentional? I wonder if it's supposed to be that way or if they're supposed to be "invisible" and that's just the only way they could make the commercial work the way they wanted it to.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 09:51 AM   #148
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Yeah, which doesn't have infant 128gb ssd.

.
But with 8GB, i7, and 128GB SSD the 11.6" is $1449. The 13" is $50 more in the available configuration (of which i7/8/128 is not). So it's essentially a $200 premium to get the Retina Display, extra Thunderbolt port, and HDMI port.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 09:52 AM   #149
Hakone
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13" Air is better bang for the buck, honestly.
They should've just called this the MacBook Air Pro.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 09:53 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by levitynyc View Post
1699 for a 13" laptop without a dedicate graphics card is batpoop insane.
yeah the price point is all wrong and typically apple..
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