tablets: Any Surface RT Owners ... Comments vs iPad?

[OSMac]

Be interested in hearing from any Surface RT / iPad owners.

How is the screen compared to the iPad, OS, etc...

[DoctorYuyi]

The Surface has no apps. .

[Yr Blues]

I reckon no one will be using it as a tablet. It's a wonky laptop that can't be used on your lap.

It's so long that in portrait mode you can really feel the weight and awkwardness.

Apple got it right with 4:3

Without mobile options, you can't really use it for business/enterprise. Even the iPad mini has LTE options.

[clukas]

Originally Posted by DoctorYuyi

The Surface has no apps.

Thats something that will come over time, but it does seem like developer are in no hurry. If this product was really "hot" then apps such as fb, spotify would already be on there. This could be an indication that developers are not as exited about it.

[HazyCloud]

Read this from the creator of Instapaper. It's one of the best articles I've read about the Surface.

http://www.marco.org/2012/10/26/an-alternate-universe

[GoSh4rks]

Originally Posted by HazyCloud

Read this from the creator of Instapaper. It's one of the best articles I've read about the Surface.

http://www.marco.org/2012/10/26/an-alternate-universe

This is one of the most apple-biased articles that I've read. He complains about EVERYTHING and basically the entire article is bashing Microsoft.

[HazyCloud]

Originally Posted by GoSh4rks

This is one of the most apple-biased articles that I've read. He complains about EVERYTHING and basically the entire article is bashing Microsoft.

I never said it wasn't biased.

Here's a couple reviews from Techcrunch and Gizmodo.

Techcrunch

Gizmodo

[pcunite]

Originally Posted by HazyCloud

Read this from the creator of Instapaper. It's one of the best articles I've read about the Surface.

http://www.marco.org/2012/10/26/an-alternate-universe

The iPad was thought to not ever make it.

[pesos]

If you want a real review, go to www.anandtech.com

The RT is great. No apps? Hmm mine seemed to come with a few that seem rather useful... Little no-names like Word, Excel, Powerpoint... Between those, IE/Mail/Calendar/Contacts, and Lync RT I can do everything I used to do on my iPad and about 10x more.

Wish the resolution was higher (Pro will have 1920x1080) but elements still look very good. Type/touch covers are impressive. RDP/citrix work great.

With the unrestricted USB port this could easily be a full time computing device for a student and many other scenarios as well.

[waa1futs]

Originally Posted by pesos

If you want a real review, go to www.anandtech.com

Exactly. Anandtech and http://www.heelsandtech.com/ are the only two review sites worth anything. Both are amazing review sites that are scientific and unbiased. I highly recommend both

[golf1410]

I have a feeling that Microsoft surface will be successful.

[zbarvian]

Originally Posted by GoSh4rks

This is one of the most apple-biased articles that I've read. He complains about EVERYTHING and basically the entire article is bashing Microsoft.

Doesn't make his points any less valuable. The description of the store and employees sounds pretty embarrassing.

[GoSh4rks]

Originally Posted by zbarvian

Doesn't make his points any less valuable. The description of the store and employees sounds pretty embarrassing.

And you don't think that there was creative license used in that description? You can't take things written with obvious favoritism at face value.

[zbarvian]

Originally Posted by GoSh4rks

And you don't think that there was creative license used in that description? You can't take things written with obvious favoritism at face value.

You can't attack an argument by attacking the author. He might be biased, but if you can't speak to his points, then you can't speak at all.

[Cyloncat]

It's a stormy Saturday afternoon and I have time to do this, so settle back for a long one...

I'm on my second iPad (do we call it "3G" now?), and I have a Samsung Series 7 Windows Slate (last year's model). The Samsung was Microsoft's reference platform when they were building Windows 8, so if any pre-RT tablet runs Win8 well, this one should, and does. So I have long experience with both platforms, as tablets.

First, I need to distinguish between Windows RT and Windows 8, because this will be a confusion factor for a long time to come. At a hardware level, "Windows RT" refers to ARM-based tablets, and "Windows 8" refers to Intel-based tablets. At an OS level, they're the same operating system, except where differentiated between consumer and enterprise versions. At an application level, the new programming interface is "WinRT" regardless of platform. WinRT applications ("Windows Store Apps", formerly known as Metro style), run on both ARM and Intel platforms. The operating system also supports a "classic" desktop mode; on Intel hardware, this will run anything that runs on Windows 7. On ARM hardware, the desktop runs only MS Office and IE 10; MS plans to keep this locked down. Clear enough? Probably not....

Oh yes, IE 10 runs in both modes, as desktop and as "Metro style". They look and feel like completely different browsers, and follow the appropriate rules and guidelines for each environment.

Because Windows tablets are being made by numerous vendors in both ARM and Intel configurations, comparisons to the iPad are not simple. The high-end Windows tablet hardware will beat the socks of the iPad (and will be priced accordingly); the low-end tablets will be inferior to the iPad. You can only compare specific models. However, you can expect most or all Windows tablets to support keyboard, mouse, Bluetooth, USB, HD cards, HDMI out, and through docks, Ethernet and external monitors.

So on to comparisons:

Operating system: Both iOS and Windows 8 have discoverability issues, but the learning curves are roughly equivalent. Windows 8 is very smooth and fluid, and the start page scrolls continuously, unlike iOS with multiple "pages". While the live tiles have been called an "ADD interface" (as in attention deficit disorder), they do present a lot of information about things you might want to know, without opening any apps. What's on my calendar? Who's emailed me, and what about? What's topping the news? What's the temperature outside? Organizing the tiles is also pretty flexible. Settings and search are easily accessible without leaving the start page, simply by swiping in from the right edge. You can switch applications by swiping in from the left edge. Application functions are accessible by swiping in from the top or bottom edge. Application search, share, and settings use the same "swipe from right" and tools that the OS provides. (Microsoft enforces this when allowing apps into the app store.) Overall, Windows 8 wins over iOS here; it's fast, fluid, highly consistent, and stays out of your way. The live tiles are a big step forward. The "snap" feature that allows two "Metro style" apps to display at once is also a big win.

Another OS consideration is that Windows 8 exposes the file system, while iOS pointedly does not. Document sharing between apps and between individuals is a lot easier on Windows.

Cloud usage: I'll rate them equal. iOS and OSX share settings through iCloud. Windows 8 does the same across devices and PCs. iCloud stores files. So does SkyDrive, but it's available for Windows, OSX, and iOS, which is nice.

Apps: On launch day, Microsoft had over 5000 apps in the Windows Store, not bad for a new platform. The store rules are similar to Apple's app store, with a fairly strict approval process. While you won't find all your favorite apps there yet, I expect the app store to grow quickly. The APIs and programming tools are an evolution on Microsoft's already excellent tooling, and there are many millions of developers who can make that transition quickly. Many already have. So (for Windows RT, at least) iOS wins for now, but this will evolve.

For Intel-based tablets, though, the situation is much different. My Samsung tablet runs Photoshop CS6 under Windows 8. It runs Visual Studio for software development. It can run web and database servers (real-world production stuff, like SQL Server and IIS). My iPad doesn't do any of these things.

Business use: Windows has a big advantage here, simply by being Windows. Existing business apps will run on Intel-based tablets. Windows 8 supports all the system management and security tools that enterprises demand. While business will generally not move quickly (they never do), I expect Windows 8 to work for BYOD scenarios much more easily than iOS or Android.

Consumer use: Here's there the iPad wins. The retina displays are outstanding, and the 4:3 form factor is easier to hold. While high-end Windows tablets will have 1080 HD displays, those won't be in the iPad's price range, at least for a while. For media consumption, I'll stay with my iPad; I read books (Kindle app), surf the web, watch videos. Windows does all these things, and also does them well, and I could be happy with just my Windows tablet. But my Samsung tablet is a bit heavier, doesn't have the same battery life, and the Kindle app isn't quite as smooth in paging (but it's getting better). I do like the wide aspect ratio for video, though, and hopefully the power management will improve with maturity both in hardware and software.

Content creation: I'll leave this one wide open. It all depends on what you want to create, and what tools you need, both hardware and software. Laptops and desktops are going to rule in this area for a while longer, both for Windows and Mac.

Marketing: Here's the rub. While Intel-based Windows 8 tablets are clearly oriented to business and professional users, I really don't know where the ARM-based Windows RT is going. By contrast, Apple's marketing is pretty clear, with the only drawback being that the crossover between iOS and OSX isn't so easy.

So there it is, one person's opinion.

[GoSh4rks]

Originally Posted by zbarvian

You can't attack an argument by attacking the author. He might be biased, but if you can't speak to his points, then you can't speak at all.

The guy called the store "creepy." That's creative license right there.

His entire introduction paragraph to the store is full of useless information that sets the mood against Microsoft.

I don't know anything about the author; this is first article of his that I've read. It is obvious that he has an axe to grind and I still stand by my statement that you shouldn't take anything the article says at face value.

[charlieegan3]

Originally Posted by golf1410

I have a feeling that Microsoft surface will be successful.

I hope the surface will be successful. I have a feeling it may not be.

[G51989]

Originally Posted by charlieegan3

I hope the surface will be successful. I have a feeling it may not be.

Well, the fact that they sold out of 32gb models via pre order, and had people lining up to snap up what was left of the 64gb models, says that people want this tablet.

[charlieegan3]

Originally Posted by G51989

Well, the fact that they sold out of 32gb models via pre order, and had people lining up to snap up what was left of the 64gb models, says that people want this tablet.

But that's just all about the number they made to sell. We have no idea how many they had, so no idea how many sold out means.

[urkel]

It's so hypocritical that with Apple Maps then "It's new so you're all idiots for thinking Maps should be complete from day one" but with Microsoft Surface it's "There's no apps so the surface is a failure".

I prefer iOS so I picked up two iPad Minis instead. but the Surface still is incredibly appealing due to Office and some interesting hardware. Id buy one for the next family member who wants a new computer.

[G51989]

Originally Posted by charlieegan3

But that's just all about the number they made to sell. We have no idea how many they had, so no idea how many sold out means.

They probably made a decent amount I would assume, even half a million ( and I bet they made more ) is a good achomplishment for Microsoft.

its an uphill battle for sure, the iPad is a freaking awesome product.

But, the Surface, already is looking to be an awesome product to.

I bet these people lining up were wanting to buy an iPad, but the iPad just couldn't do what they needed it to.

----------

Originally Posted by urkel

It's so hypocritical that with Apple Maps then "It's new so you're all idiots for thinking Maps should be complete from day one" but with Microsoft Surface it's "There's no apps so the surface is a failure".

I prefer iOS so I picked up two iPad Minis instead. but the Surface still is incredibly appealing due to Office and some interesting hardware. Id buy one for the next family member who wants a new computer.

Well, the iPad launched with next to no apps ( no, ****** blow up iPhone apps do not count ), and it was CLEARLY a failure....100 million sold....failure....

[Cyloncat]

Another Surface review:

http://www.zdnet.com/hands-on-with-m...ot-7000006258/

[DeathChill]

Here's a review with videos showing various issues:
http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-im-returning-my-microsoft-surface-rt/


The mail app one is crazy! I can't believe it presents you with an empty screen with no prompts.

However, it seems the hardware is just outstanding and the software just needs a bit more work.

[Vegastouch]

Originally Posted by zbarvian

Doesn't make his points any less valuable. The description of the store and employees sounds pretty embarrassing.

Please....so him saying there were more salesreps than customers looking? Well im sure glad i had that info

Dont know what time that was when he was there or what but today there sure were many people looking at the new W8 devices...old and young. Should i take that as the new devices must be great?

Well i did try them out for myself and imo, the W8 devices will sell like hotcakes. You can put it back in desktop mode as well if you dont like the tiles.

[Night Spring]

Originally Posted by Vegastouch

You can put it back in desktop mode as well if you dont like the tiles.

How do you do that? I remember when I tried a preview version of Win8, it kept dumping me back at the tiles whenever I wanted to launch a new app.

Originally Posted by DeathChill

Here's a review with videos showing various issues:
http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-im-return...ft-surface-rt/

I was just reading this article and noticed, toward the end of the article:
"Verdict: Wait for the Surface Pro
The Surface Pro comes out in a few months. The hardware design is very similar, but heavier, thicker, and with a “real” processor that requires a fan."

I had forgotten about the fan in Surface Pro! How well do you think that will work for a tablet you hold in your hand? Fans are fine on a laptop, but on a tablet? So how serious is Microsoft about making the Surface Pro work as a tablet?