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Old Oct 28, 2012, 03:39 PM   #51
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Do you know how ridiculous you sound? the iPad is the best tablet device out. Surely you don't believe that the Surface is a better product? If so, the depths of your stupidity are staggering.
For what? Not for using MS Office with a decent keyboard. Even if Windows 8 tablets had no apps other than MS Office and a browser, I'd still rather get a Windows tablet over an iPad. I do a lot of writing (for work and for my Masters), and for that reason the Surface is immediately a far better tablet device for me. As it would be for a lot of students. I can use all the iOS apps on my phone, I'd much rather have something I could get things done with, rather than use the same apps as my phone on a bigger screen.
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 05:06 PM   #52
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Do you know how ridiculous you sound? the iPad is the best tablet device out. Surely you don't believe that the Surface is a better product? If so, the depths of your stupidity are staggering.
So you're saying that if you think that the Surface is a better product that the iPad, you are stupid and being ridiculous.

Pot, meet kettle.
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 05:16 PM   #53
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Do you know how ridiculous you sound? the iPad is the best tablet device out. Surely you don't believe that the Surface is a better product? If so, the depths of your stupidity are staggering.
Nope, I didn't say Surface was a better product. I was just commenting on how ridiculous YOU sounded saying you should buy an ipad just because it was supposedly some kind of "original" tablet everyone else copied from.
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 07:16 PM   #54
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Will Excel on the Surface RT run a file that has been created using VB? I have a pricing tool I use in work, and the whether this runs or not on RT would be a deal breaker for me.

Mind you I can't get the file to run on a Mac either, which means I still have to lug around my crappy Dell brick just to run one programme. It would be great to have an alternative, so I'm hoping RT will be the answer to my problems.

Thanks
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 08:09 PM   #55
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Mind you I can't get the file to run on a Mac either, which means I still have to lug around my crappy Dell brick just to run one programme. It would be great to have an alternative, so I'm hoping RT will be the answer to my problems.
Can't tell you whether that will run on RT, but have you tried running Windows in a VM, such as Parallels or Fusion, or considered using bootcamp to run Windows on your Mac? That should allow you to get rid of your Dell.
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 08:14 PM   #56
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Can't tell you whether that will run on RT, but have you tried running Windows in a VM, such as Parallels or Fusion, or considered using bootcamp to run Windows on your Mac? That should allow you to get rid of your Dell.
I've used Bootcamp with XP pro and Windows 7
I've also run VM Ware fusion 3 (XP & W7) and 4 (W7)

No luck with any of the combos. A friend of mine recently purchased a 15" Retina MBP, he used bootcamp and win 7 as well as Parallels with Win 7, again no luck

I'm pretty sure it's something that the Mac does with the file, because it opens on my work laptop, and it also opens on my friends home and office computer.

But thanks for the advice, appreciate it.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:05 AM   #57
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Nope, I didn't say Surface was a better product. I was just commenting on how ridiculous YOU sounded saying you should buy an ipad just because it was supposedly some kind of "original" tablet everyone else copied from.
Again, the iPad is the BEST tablet out right now, why would you buy a half-ass clone?
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:13 AM   #58
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Again, the iPad is the BEST tablet out right now, why would you buy a half-ass clone?
It's not a half ass one, it's a first gen. I agree the iPad is most definitely the best tablet out there, which is why I have one and why I plan to upgrade from my iPad 2 to the Mini. But I can see where the Surface would benefit me in work in a way the iPad wouldn't.

The Surface has a long way to go mind, but I think everyone knows that and take it for what it is. It's a very good concept though, but I think MS are just messing up by crippling the RT in some ways, while confusing people to think the Pro is a tablet device, when it's a Laptop/ tablet hybrid.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:16 AM   #59
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Again, the iPad is the BEST tablet out right now, why would you buy a half-ass clone?
It's obvious you haven't worked with the Surface. It can do a lot more than the iPad can, and doesn't have Apple's artificial limitations imposed on it. I've owned three, and find the Surface to be very liberating. Now if your needs fall within Apple's tightly walled garden and you don't care about the fact that you can't use USB devices or copy things to and from your device without using iTunes, then the iPad is a fantastic option too.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:27 AM   #60
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Read this from the creator of Instapaper. It's one of the best articles I've read about the Surface.

http://www.marco.org/2012/10/26/an-alternate-universe
Great Article....the author really nailed it!
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:28 AM   #61
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Will Excel on the Surface RT run a file that has been created using VB? I have a pricing tool I use in work, and the whether this runs or not on RT would be a deal breaker for me.

Mind you I can't get the file to run on a Mac either, which means I still have to lug around my crappy Dell brick just to run one programme. It would be great to have an alternative, so I'm hoping RT will be the answer to my problems.

Thanks
The version of Excel on Win RT will not run VB afaik.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:37 AM   #62
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Great Article....the author really nailed it!
Wow, what a ridiculous article! Basically everything he said is untrue, but the price comparison he does is probably the most absurd. He keeps comparing the Surface's price to the iPad mini instead of the iPad. Wonder why...
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:39 AM   #63
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I went to the store on Friday. I am dead set on buying a Surface Pro to replace my work laptop. I wanted to try out the Surface RT and after about 5 minutes of toying with it i went and bought it. Its a pretty nifty device. Works flawlessly with my other Win 7 PCs and sharing files and resources is a breeze.

I found the App store lacking but I honestly expected this. I noticed that a lot of the normal apps I use on my S3 and my iPad were missing like Pandora and Facebook. It didn't matter since I just used the website instead. Hell even Xbox music is a pretty good Pandora alternative. Apps that were available worked very well. There might be some issue with some developers though. I ran into apps that were graphics heavy that ran great then there were apps that for the most part ran well but had areas where FPS dropped. Not sure if it is the hardware or a bad port from the developers.

The screen is good, not iPad 3 good. Reading websites in portrait mode was kind of painful on certain websites. Other than that it looks purdy.

As for the feel of the device. It feels as light or lighter than my iPad. I brought it to work today and everyone either says its lighter or as light. In fact we have a guy we poached from an Apple Store and he even said it felt lighter. Even though the Surface is slightly thinner than the iPad 3 it doesn't feel as thin because of the angled edges. Overall it feels very well built, feels good in your hands and the touch cover is amazing. I was expecting a soft rubbery keyboard but instead i got this flat almost touch screen like keyboard with an amazing track pad.

The UI is really smooth, come to expect that considering how smooth Win Phone 7 was and my impressions of Windows 8 Preview. My only nags were flash heavy sites and a few bundled apps (Xbox Music, Email) that had a little bit of sluggishness. Mostly when they are loading.

Overall I am very impressed with the Surface RT. I'm really in the market for the Surface Pro and was debating if I was going to sell off the Surface RT when it launched. After using it over the weekend I think I will hold on to it.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:40 AM   #64
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It's obvious you haven't worked with the Surface. It can do a lot more than the iPad can, and doesn't have Apple's artificial limitations imposed on it. I've owned three, and find the Surface to be very liberating. Now if your needs fall within Apple's tightly walled garden and you don't care about the fact that you can't use USB devices or copy things to and from your device without using iTunes, then the iPad is a fantastic option too.
No, I haven't used a Surface as I don't have a need. I have used Windows 8 which is basically the same OS on the Surface (if you will) and it sucks. The only major selling point is Microsoft Office. That's coming to the IOS next year but again not something I really need as I have moved on from Office.

My buddy has one though and it's heavy. Not something I would want to hold for long periods to play around with. Not many apps. No VPN capabilities. Unless you have a need for Office and use it all the time, I would not buy this first gen product.

Keep in mind how Microsoft recently abandoned the first gen Windows Phone 7. I feel sorry for all the poor souls that bought that product.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:43 AM   #65
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The version of Excel on Win RT will not run VB afaik.
Thanks for letting me know, appreciate it

That's a shame. I'm not sure why MS have positioned RT as a work device in comparison to the iToy and then crippled it with Home Office. That's a shame really, and kind of contradicts their little jibe at the iPad
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:50 AM   #66
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Wow, what a ridiculous article! Basically everything he said is untrue, but the price comparison he does is probably the most absurd. He keeps comparing the Surface's price to the iPad mini instead of the iPad. Wonder why...
This was my favorite part of the article:

"The Surface is partially for Microsoft’s world of denial: the world in which this store contains no elephants and Microsoft invented the silver store with the glass front and the glowing logo and blue shirts and white lanyards and these table layouts and the modern tablet and its magnetic power cable. In that world, this is a groundbreaking new tablet that you can finally use at work and leave your big creaky plastic Dell laptop behind when you go to the conference room to have a conference call on the starfish phone with all of the wires and dysfunctional communication."

We've had Windows 8 here at work on a Lenovo all-in-one touchscreen now for months...none of us can stand using it. So now it just sits...

"lipstick on a pig" is the first thing that comes to mind when I think of windows 8
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:50 AM   #67
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It's not a half ass one, it's a first gen. I agree the iPad is most definitely the best tablet out there, which is why I have one and why I plan to upgrade from my iPad 2 to the Mini. But I can see where the Surface would benefit me in work in a way the iPad wouldn't.

The Surface has a long way to go mind, but I think everyone knows that and take it for what it is. It's a very good concept though, but I think MS are just messing up by crippling the RT in some ways, while confusing people to think the Pro is a tablet device, when it's a Laptop/ tablet hybrid.
Meh, he's just a teen Troll looking to be negative in an otherwise very interesting discussion, best to move on.

I think the "best" tablet is what is good for that particular consumer, too often we get into which tablet is "best" when that just breeds fanboyism instead of just a nice discussion where people weight pros and cons.

For me the "best" tablet is a windows Pro tablet, it suits my needs both personally and in business. For me iOS is too compromising, I give up too much from having a real OS. I've settled with it for 3 years and it gave me some great functionality, but I knew eventually someone would come with a more serious tablet. If you mainly like media consumption currently it's still king of the hill, you just won't get much serious work done with it, and there is nothing wrong with that if that's what your needs dictate.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:53 AM   #68
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I tried Surface with Type Cover (I found touch cover a lot less useful).

I was able to type 100+ WPM in word, while multi-tasking with a journal article open on the same screen, in a device basically as thin and light as an iPad. This is absolutely unachievable on an iPad (you can't multi-task, adding a keyboard on an iPad sacrifices a lot of weight/size and battery, there is no office).

Now, it's difficult to see why Surface has much advantage over say a MBA because there are still some compromises (I suppose it is much cheaper, which probably does make all the difference). But purely iPad vs Surface, you can do things on a Surface in terms of productivity you just can't do on an iPad. So I think it does have at least one advantage.
First of all - there is "office", just not MS Office (yet). I've found Pages to be a more than adequate word processor.

And I feel I personally can type about as fast on the iPad's touch screen as I can on a tactile keyboard - I think its a matter of preference and whether or not you get used to it (I tried other keyboards for the iPad and wasn't impressed - some similar to the covers Surface has - just ended up getting used to typing on the iPad).

I'll give you the multitasking part - When typing a paper, story, article, whatever and referencing something else it would be extremely convenient to have both the document AND the article open at the same time. I think this is something Apple could use AirPlay to open up. Instead of having the option only to mirror, why not be able to choose which screen to open which apps up in (when connected to a TV/monitor via AirPlay). A software tweak that may undoubtedly be more difficult than I realize, nevertheless the opportunity is there.

For me, the Surface is just too large and the screen res too low. I applaud MS for coming up with something entirely different than anything out on the market (*cough* Android *cough*) but from what my friends and family tell me (the ones not quite as tech savvy) - Win8 is too different and its uncomfortable.

The lines are being blurred between tablet and laptop - which has happened before (back when "tablets" were essentially laptops without keyboards). I think it remains to be seen where the industry goes from here.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 11:01 AM   #69
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This was my favorite part of the article:

"The Surface is partially for Microsoft’s world of denial: the world in which this store contains no elephants and Microsoft invented the silver store with the glass front and the glowing logo and blue shirts and white lanyards and these table layouts and the modern tablet and its magnetic power cable. In that world, this is a groundbreaking new tablet that you can finally use at work and leave your big creaky plastic Dell laptop behind when you go to the conference room to have a conference call on the starfish phone with all of the wires and dysfunctional communication."

We've had Windows 8 here at work on a Lenovo all-in-one touchscreen now for months...none of us can stand using it. So now it just sits...

"lipstick on a pig" is the first thing that comes to mind when I think of windows 8
Interesting. We've moved 4 or so folks over at one of our clients and everyone else is clamoring to get it - everyone seems to love it.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 11:04 AM   #70
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It's obvious you haven't worked with the Surface. It can do a lot more than the iPad can, and doesn't have Apple's artificial limitations imposed on it. I've owned three, and find the Surface to be very liberating. Now if your needs fall within Apple's tightly walled garden and you don't care about the fact that you can't use USB devices or copy things to and from your device without using iTunes, then the iPad is a fantastic option too.
Be careful with the "It can do a lot more than the iPad can" line. That has been said about Android for forever and I couldn't find anything my N7 could do that my iPad couldn't.

It might be able to do things in a more recognizable way (especially if you're a PC) but the iPad (with 600,000 apps - almost half of which are specifically written for the iPad) can do a lot of things people either don't realize or ignore because it requires a different program.

Kinda like saying "The iPad can't run MS Word" and taking that to me it doesn't do word processing/document creation. Well no, it can't run MS Word but it can run Pages, which in my experience is just as effective.

I understand, many people have certain programs they use and legitimately cannot switch from - but that doesn't mean the iPad doesn't have the capacity to do that task. There are also many tasks that are a preference to the user - and would therefore be a main reason to choose one platform over the other. But claiming the iPad is inferior based on your desire to mess around in the file system (when the way Apple runs file management behind the scenes is preferable to many people) shouldn't be an overall indictment on the iPad - simply that you prefer to be able to open the file system.

For which case you should buy a Surface

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Interesting. We've moved 4 or so folks over at one of our clients and everyone else is clamoring to get it - everyone seems to love it.
Overall - the consensus from a lot of articles I read and from my buddies who work at BBY (based on their interactions with customers) is that Win8 isn't a huge success - rather too different from the standard windows and people are cautious of it.

I think on a large-scale Win8 will see a pretty slow adoption rate - but that's just my opinion based on my own research and readings.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 11:08 AM   #71
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Be careful with the "It can do a lot more than the iPad can" line. That has been said about Android for forever and I couldn't find anything my N7 could do that my iPad couldn't.

It might be able to do things in a more recognizable way (especially if you're a PC) but the iPad (with 600,000 apps - almost half of which are specifically written for the iPad) can do a lot of things people either don't realize or ignore because it requires a different program.

Kinda like saying "The iPad can't run MS Word" and taking that to me it doesn't do word processing/document creation. Well no, it can't run MS Word but it can run Pages, which in my experience is just as effective.

I understand, many people have certain programs they use and legitimately cannot switch from - but that doesn't mean the iPad doesn't have the capacity to do that task. There are also many tasks that are a preference to the user - and would therefore be a main reason to choose one platform over the other. But claiming the iPad is inferior based on your desire to mess around in the file system (when the way Apple runs file management behind the scenes is preferable to many people) shouldn't be an overall indictment on the iPad - simply that you prefer to be able to open the file system.

For which case you should buy a Surface

----------



Overall - the consensus from a lot of articles I read and from my buddies who work at BBY (based on their interactions with customers) is that Win8 isn't a huge success - rather too different from the standard windows and people are cautious of it.

I think on a large-scale Win8 will see a pretty slow adoption rate - but that's just my opinion based on my own research and readings.
I have had every generation iPad, and trust me, there is a ton you can do on the Surface RT that you can't on the iPad. And I'm not just talking about apps, I'm talking about the entire approach, the hardware limitations, artificial software and access limitations, etc.

I think it's hilarious that people are passing judgment on Windows 8 72 hours after its release. Yes it's different. So was going to Intel chips and the fanbois cried foul over that one for a while too, but I rather think it was the right choice. Having had Windows 8 on my MBP for months I still didn't really get it until sitting down with the Surface - now it's starting to make sense. MS isn't as stupid as they seem sometimes.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 11:33 AM   #72
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I have had every generation iPad, and trust me, there is a ton you can do on the Surface RT that you can't on the iPad. And I'm not just talking about apps, I'm talking about the entire approach, the hardware limitations, artificial software and access limitations, etc.

I think it's hilarious that people are passing judgment on Windows 8 72 hours after its release. Yes it's different. So was going to Intel chips and the fanbois cried foul over that one for a while too, but I rather think it was the right choice. Having had Windows 8 on my MBP for months I still didn't really get it until sitting down with the Surface - now it's starting to make sense. MS isn't as stupid as they seem sometimes.
Those of us in the Tech industry have had Windows 8 RTM for weeks. It was released on MSDN and Technet quite a while back.

Also, if you need something to grow on you over a few days, then its probably not that good in the first place and you are settling. Many people do this to justify the money spent due to hype or what have you.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 11:42 AM   #73
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Those of us in the Tech industry have had Windows 8 RTM for weeks. It was released on MSDN and Technet quite a while back.

Also, if you need something to grow on you over a few days, then its probably not that good in the first place and you are settling. Many people do this to justify the money spent due to hype or what have you.
Yes, thanks for clearing that up - as I mentioned I've been running 8 and server 2012 for months. Who said anything about needing days for something to grow on you? The Surface was usable within minutes. I was talking about strategy, not the user experience.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 11:47 AM   #74
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Also, if you need something to grow on you over a few days, then its probably not that good in the first place and you are settling. Many people do this to justify the money spent due to hype or what have you.
Or it's different, and you come to appreciate it the more you use it. Either/or.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 11:49 AM   #75
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Another incredible plus that I've been playing with all day is stylus input. I'm not what kind of input the Surface RT has (surface Pro will have a digitizer), but on my Samsung Ativ it has the S pen and a separate input digitizer for the pen. I've been editing and creating real documents with Word 2013 and it is freaking amazing. For reports I will normally sit and type, but for seminars I can see this thing being incredible for taking notes.
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