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Old Oct 30, 2012, 04:29 PM   #26
joueboy
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Obviously this is unevitable there is no secret ingredient on how to make this cable, just what Apple would like you to think. This is all about Apple making money before everybody else. I'm sure they sold millions of this cable before they will decide to license this to the third party manufacturers. But I like the new cable much better than 30 pin in every way. I'm glad I didn't invested so much on the 30 pin I never like the docking speakers anyway.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 04:33 PM   #27
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Ordering this stuff seems like a leap of faith. It might work. It might not. It might be seized in customs if Apple notices and decides to protect their patents.

I wonder how easy it is to get your money back from this Chinese vendor if the stuff gets seized. In the USA, I guess the credit card companies will end up eating the losses in that case. If they feel much pain, they'll stop processing payments for the vendor.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 04:53 PM   #28
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What makes you think they haven't released the detailed specs? Just internet rumors.

Unless you're in the MFi program, you DON'T KNOW what specs have been released. And if you ARE in the program, you signed a non-disclosure agreement so you can't tell us.

We don't have any way to know how much of the delay is because Apple is slow, how much is because of schedules at other companies, and how much is due to component shortages.

In the keynote presentation, Phil Schiller said they were already working with a number of other companies "to integrate lightning connectors into products you may choose to buy, for example this holiday season".

----------



That doesn't agree with Apple's statement during the iPhone 5 keynote presentation.
there are thousands of companies in the MFi program and Apple knows there would be leaks, NDA or not. so they dont tell anyone, trust me. they might tell only a couple top companies like Belkin and Bose.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 04:53 PM   #29
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The decision to withhold Lightning wasn't a Forstall decision, was it? Why wasn't the exec responsible for this made to walk the plank with the rest?

This is a much bigger mistake than Maps, in my opinion.
What would you have done differently, because it would need to change eventually?
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 05:44 PM   #30
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The decision to withhold Lightning wasn't a Forstall decision, was it? Why wasn't the exec responsible for this made to walk the plank with the rest?

This is a much bigger mistake than Maps, in my opinion.
I HOPE the shakeup we are seeing is a sign that Tim realizes Apple is making too many stupid mistakes.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 05:47 PM   #31
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In addition to secrecy, Apple is pushing AirPlay vs. wired approach.
I dont have "airplay" at work though. just a 30pin doc/speaker combo
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 05:49 PM   #32
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there are thousands of companies in the MFi program and Apple knows there would be leaks, NDA or not. so they dont tell anyone, trust me. they might tell only a couple top companies like Belkin and Bose.
The keynote mentioned 4 companies by name, and said "others".

I'll grant you that Apple would be concerned with secrecy before the iPhone 5 was released. But after release there would be little point. We can only speculate about the details.

The mechanical drawings showing locations of connectors, cameras, etc. were released for iPhone 5 by September 19. Maybe sooner; that was the first day I looked for them.

The drawings for the latest batch of iPads are already available:
https://developer.apple.com/resources/cases/

So they aren't being sneaky or secretive about that stuff.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 06:00 PM   #33
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yeah, but apple could slightly change the location in the next phone and throw everyone off
If the connector location is changed, it's likely that it's an all new iPhone and you'd need a new dock anyways.

(plus I don't think Apple is all that concerned about making their shiny new iPhone compatible with an unauthorized third party accessory anyways)
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 06:23 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by MeFromHere View Post
What makes you think they haven't released the detailed specs? Just internet rumors.

Unless you're in the MFi program, you DON'T KNOW what specs have been released. And if you ARE in the program, you signed a non-disclosure agreement so you can't tell us.

We don't have any way to know how much of the delay is because Apple is slow, how much is because of schedules at other companies, and how much is due to component shortages.

In the keynote presentation, Phil Schiller said they were already working with a number of other companies "to integrate lightning connectors into products you may choose to buy, for example this holiday season".

----------



That doesn't agree with Apple's statement during the iPhone 5 keynote presentation.
We know Apple hasn't released the spec yet because they are releasing to some partners at the training for it's MFI partners in November; we know this because those partners have said so in various forms. Yes, this is technically speculation because it's not from the original source, but I would file it in the "they have no reason to lie so it's most likely true" folder.

We know from iphone5mod.com that sourcing the components (both the exact ones used by apple and 3rd party knock-offs) is easy and there is plenty of them.

Schiller said they are working with some partners, but he failed to mention the depth of level of that work.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 07:07 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Freyqq View Post
yeah, but apple could slightly change the location in the next phone and throw everyone off
just make the 3.5mm peg detachable. if it's repositioned on the next phone then detach it from the base unit. if not, you're golden.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 07:37 PM   #36
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What would you have done differently, because it would need to change eventually?
I would have ensured there wasn't a 3 month gap between product release and accessories for that product.

I have no problem with a new connector-- personally I've hated the 30pin dock connector since it replaced firewire back in the day. The fact that a new connector was inevitable is half the reason it wouldn't have been a big deal to share the specs-- everyone knew it would happen eventually.

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Originally Posted by nutmac View Post
I am sorry but what you are suggesting is not very realistic. You are suggesting Apple should've pre-announced the connector (and not the devices using new connector).
How is that not realistic? Going to the accessory makers and saying "we'll be releasing a new dock connector in September. Here's the specs if you're interested. We can't tell you much else about the form factor of the device yet" would have been perfectly reasonable.

You sound like the idea that iPhone4s wouldn't be the last phone ever made by Apple was a closely guarded secret or that the new connector hole is the defining feature of the new product. No, it's a connector that does all the same things the other connector does, just more nicely.

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Originally Posted by nutmac View Post
First of all, that is rather unprecedented. Apple is in the business of selling products to end users, not to OEM like Intel. Furthermore, unlike Thunderbolt and FireWire, Lightning is not meant to be adopted by non-Apple products.

Secondly, announcing a new connector would officially confirm that all the existing devices with 30-pin connector (both Apple and 3rd party) are about to become obsolete (or at least deprecated). I suspect this is one of the few reasons why Apple decided to update 9.7-inch iPad now. That would in turn trigger massive decline in sale (and inventory to pile up). Meanwhile, months go by until Apple can finally unveil and ship new products.
iPhone's success is largely driven by the ecosystem it supports-- apps and accessories. Apple gets revenue from every official accessory, and they get brand lock in through their accessories. By keeping Lightning so secret, they've cut off the air supply to their own ecosystem.

The fact that they hung all these guys out to dry has certainly earned them some ill will. The fact that their customers have zero accessories available months after release has certainly earned them some ill will.

Lightning was absolutely meant to be used by non-Apple products-- those made by Belkin, Griffin, BMW, Toyota, etc, etc. It doesn't appear to have been meant to be used with any Apple products at all, except one $20 cable. No dock, no nothing.
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Originally Posted by nutmac View Post
Having said that, Apple could've done a lot better. 30-pin to Lightning adapter should've been bundled with iPhone and 5th generation iPod touch. The adapter should've been available on the launch date. The adapter could've been better designed.
The adapter is a hack. Native Lightning accessories is where it's at. My phone is my alarm clock, and I can't see what time it is at night without propping the stupid thing up with a book-- one to prop it up, one to keep it from sliding down-- that's silly.

Apple has a reputation of being difficult to work with, and this is the new exhibit A. Someone should have gotten dinged for it.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 07:44 PM   #37
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I dont have "airplay" at work though. just a 30pin doc/speaker combo
A: There's an adaptor for that
B: We all knew of lightning before the 5 was released.

Look, if I buy a new car, I don't get mad at Ford when K & N hasn't released a high flow intake because Ford didn't give them the specs before they released it. If you're an informed consumer, you think of these things before making a purchase.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 08:42 PM   #38
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good first attempt.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 10:07 PM   #39
Analog Kid
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Originally Posted by FrizzleFryBen View Post
Look, if I buy a new car, I don't get mad at Ford when K & N hasn't released a high flow intake because Ford didn't give them the specs before they released it. If you're an informed consumer, you think of these things before making a purchase.
An informed consumer does think about these things, which is another reason this was a mistake on Apple's part. They don't want people deciding not to buy because they can't find a dock. They also don't want people leaving the brand because they fear this will keep happening over and over.

I'm sure we could go back and forth for days about what parts Ford ensures are ready to go before they roll a car out the door versus the ones that lag, but if Ford rolled a car out with zero advance press that was incompatible with every bike rack, snow tire and synthetic oil on the market-- it would fail miserably.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 10:14 PM   #40
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The awful, unforgiveable Seven Weeks With Too Few iPhone Accessories nightmare will pass. It’s hard to believe now, but this blinding agony will be quickly forgotten!

(Luckily, even my 5-year-old Griffin iTrip works with my iPhone 5 + adapter. It charges, the physical controls work, the audio works—it’s perfect. Ditto for my boombox and my various chargers dating back years. All I’m missing is video out... but I’ve already decided AppleTV is worth more to me than an adapter.)
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 10:46 PM   #41
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The awful, unforgiveable Seven Weeks With Too Few iPhone Accessories nightmare will pass. Itís hard to believe now, but this blinding agony will be quickly forgotten!
I sure hope so, because right now I can only leave the fetal position long enough to hit refresh on Amazon...
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 12:13 AM   #42
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Really who cares if the lightning cable was leaked, it's really not a big deal and it would have helped both consumers and retailers to have the lightning accessories on the shelf when the phone released.

Keeping a lot things secret makes sense for building hype, but I don't think i've talked to anyone that was overwhelmingly excited about a new cable standard, it certainly didn't help the hype machine or sell more phones.

It would have been one thing if apple had a ton of lightning accessories at launch but that was not the case. They had a usb cable and an adapter, I guess the idea was to have everyone buy the adapter.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 01:22 AM   #43
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I just bout a cheap knock off $5 lightning cable from dx.com..
The description said it can charge and sync, but I would be happy if it just charges as I bought it for the car charger.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 03:43 AM   #44
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I'm perfectly okay with this. To be honest, I never purchased OEM 30pin sync cables from Apple anyways, I would get the inexpensive third party look-alikes from eBay.
The quality of the unlicensed 3rd-party 30-pin cables you get on eBay is, in my experience, very poor. They tend to be quite sensitive (lose the connection on movement, don't work well with dirty/damaged sync ports on devices, etc), and the connectors sometimes fall apart after a few weeks/months of use.

Sure, they're very cheap, and you can buy like 10 or 20 for the price of one genuine cable. But having to replace unreliable cables regularly is pretty annoying.

I just hope that if 3rd parties are making lightning connectors, they ramp up the quality level a lot.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 04:26 AM   #45
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Coming in the next iOS update, apple adds a secret "feature" that detects when you attach a non-approved third party cable or dock and permanently disables the port, when you take it in to the apple store the run a software check and it says you invalidated warranty by attaching a non-approved cable or dock that has "damaged" the phone/ipad, and then attempt to sell you a new phone/ipad

Apple post even more record profits off the sale of iPhones and iPads

Apple stock continues to soar

...
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 04:29 AM   #46
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Those docks really ought to add a 3.5mm plug for additional stability. I don't imagine that tiny Lightning connector is anywhere near as stable as the 30-pin.
I looked at some of the knock off stuff on Amazon and have decided that if you ask yourself a couple of basic questions then you don't need a dock any more. You only need to make a physical connection for IOS updates now, and the chip in the Lightning cable would deter me from buying any of these offerings. Apple will not be making a dock either, so I;m sticking with a stand and wifi syncing. I can only see issues with broken ports, pins stuck in the device etc if the current batch are used. That little pin set is bound to be super vulnerable to damage.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 05:35 AM   #47
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You only need to make a physical connection for IOS updates now.
Actually since iOS 5, iOS has been able to update itself over-the-air.

But you still need to make a physical connection to *charge* the device.

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That little pin set is bound to be super vulnerable to damage.
Huh? The new dock connector seems much more robust than the old 30-pin one. Much more robust than a micro-USB, too, for that matter.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 05:53 AM   #48
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Lightening and Video Out

Any word on a lightening cable with video out. Would really like this to be able to use in my car.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 08:50 AM   #49
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We know Apple hasn't released the spec yet because they are releasing to some partners at the training for it's MFI partners in November; we know this because those partners have said so in various forms. Yes, this is technically speculation because it's not from the original source, but I would file it in the "they have no reason to lie so it's most likely true" folder.

We know from iphone5mod.com that sourcing the components (both the exact ones used by apple and 3rd party knock-offs) is easy and there is plenty of them.

Schiller said they are working with some partners, but he failed to mention the depth of level of that work.
I read that Apple has a training event for MFi partners in November, with a focus on companies that actually manufacture stuff. I did NOT read that it is the FIRST training event, or that the specs haven't already been released to MFi designers.

Any company actually in the MFi program probably isn't saying anything; they don't want to be kicked out for violating the NDA. Can you point to a source that has given any first hand, on-the-record details?

iphone5mod.com claimed they have a source of parts, but I see no reason to believe their statement that they are genuine. iphone5mod.com is almost certainly selling unlicensed goods and they don't expect to stay in business (in their present form) for very long. Their business model is probably to sell as much as possible quickly before they are shut down. They have EVERY incentive to exaggerate about their products and their sources of components.

Why does iphone5mod.com include this in their product description:
"We have upgraded the iPhone 5 Classic Dock with an additional slot so that you can remove your iPhone 5 from the Lightning Connector and keep your iPhone 5 sitting on the dock upright in landscape mode (perfect for video playback!) after your iPhone 5 is fully charged. This prevents your iPhone 5 from over-charging..."?

There's no risk of over-charging an iPhone if you leave it plugged into a REAL USB-to-Lighting cable indefinitely. It sounds like there's a problem with this knock-off.

Apple controls the key parts, and only sells them to approved MFi partners. If Apple's supplier is selling parts without authorization, they'll cease to be Apple's supplier pretty quickly and they know it. I suspect iphone5mod.com has found a handful of sample parts, or rejects, or plain counterfeits. They've reverse engineered enough to (maybe) get some very basic functionality like charging to work.

As aggressively as Apple defends their patents, I expect they are ordering a few samples of all these fraudulent products. They'll take them apart, examine the components, and start hunting for the perpetrators. Probably a handful of items will slip through customs. But any vendor that achieves any sort of real volume will get squashed fairly fast I expect.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonib6 View Post
Any word on a lightening cable with video out. Would really like this to be able to use in my car.
What kind of video signal do you need?

These two products from Apple have video output:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD...to-vga-adapter
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD...tal-av-adapter
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 08:51 AM   #50
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Some issues with 3rd party

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Originally Posted by Westside guy View Post
I'm glad these have come out so quickly. As long as I've looked at a product's review history, I've never had any problem with any of the cheap knock-off versions of Apple connectors before - so I don't expect problems with these either.

This way I can have spare cables at various locations - e.g. car, office, in various bags - without having to take out a third mortgage (the second mortgage was needed for the original hardware purchase ).
With about 17 iOS devices in the extended family - I have purchased a number of 3rd party wall chargers, 30pin cables and car chargers - I have had issues with a couple of them - one wall charger blew up (yes blew up - smoke coming out charring on the USB socket) - one cord that would charge but messed with the touch input - and a car charger that worked fine with older devices but will not properly charge the iPhone 4S - and a few that have connectors a tad bulky to plug in with some cases on. Overall I have been satisfied with them and while some have failed, none have cause any damage to anything but themselves. I like retractable cords for the car and my travel bag - and as far as I now Apple has never made those.
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