Climate change is here to stay.

[aaronvan]

Think about it. We in the First World will never surrender our fossil fuel energy-based lifestyle and the Second and Third World populations will never stop trying to enjoy the luxeries that we take for granted. You and I are not going stop driving, stop purchasing disposable computer crap, or do anything that crimps our lifestyle. Furthermore, there is only one zero-greenhouse emission energy source that can possibly meet the baseload power requirements that fossil fuel provides and that source is nuclear fission. Not solar panels, not windmills. Only nuclear power can replace fossil fuels. Unfortunately, the so-called “green” movement dogmatically rejects nuclear power.

In summary, we’re not going to stop climate change so we better learn to live with it.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by aaronvan

In summary, we’re not going to stop climate change so we better learn to live with it.

That's a pretty defeatist attitude.

I believe we can face big problems like Climate Change and do our best to ameliorate them.

[haxrnick]

Hey man, great thread! Thanks for really elaborating on why climate change is here to stay! The climate has been changing since the beginning of time. Why not call it what you left-wing [...] used to call it? Global warming. Lipstick. Pig.

[Thomas Veil]

Originally Posted by haxrnick

Hey man, great thread! Thanks for really elaborating on why climate change is here to stay! The climate has been changing since the beginning of time. Why not call it what you left-wing [...] used to call it? Global warming. Lipstick. Pig.

Sticking your head in the Sandy, eh?

[MyDesktopBroke]

Originally Posted by haxrnick

Hey man, great thread! Thanks for really elaborating on why climate change is here to stay! The climate has been changing since the beginning of time. Why not call it what you left-wing [...] used to call it? Global warming. Lipstick. Pig.

They are different phenomena.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/fea...ther_name.html
http://www.skepticalscience.com/clim...al-warming.htm

[Peace]

Well if we're supposed to "live with it". We better start investing in some better infrastructure eh ?

[tshrimp]

Originally Posted by aaronvan

Think about it. We in the First World will never surrender our fossil fuel energy-based lifestyle and the Second and Third World populations will never stop trying to enjoy the luxeries that we take for granted. You and I are not going stop driving, stop purchasing disposable computer crap, or do anything that crimps our lifestyle. Furthermore, there is only one zero-greenhouse emission energy source that can possibly meet the baseload power requirements that fossil fuel provides and that source is nuclear fission. Not solar panels, not windmills. Only nuclear power can replace fossil fuels. Unfortunately, the so-called “green” movement dogmatically rejects nuclear power.

In summary, we’re not going to stop climate change so we better learn to live with it.

If it makes you feel any better Global Warming (now global climate change due to temp fluctuations, and some for the cooler) has been dis proven time and again. It has become such big business now that it is profitable that Global Climate change exist. Keep the rumor going and we can make more money.

[MadeTheSwitch]

Originally Posted by tshrimp

If it makes you feel any better Global Warming (now global climate change due to temp fluctuations, and some for the cooler) has been dis proven time and again. It has become such big business now that it is profitable that Global Climate change exist. Keep the rumor going and we can make more money.

You sure do live in some sort of alternate reality don't you? It's a proven fact that the ocean temps are rising. It is a proven fact that polar ice is melting. It's a proven fact that we are experiencing more violent tropical weather farther north more frequently. What part of that is lost on you?

[thewitt]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

That's a pretty defeatist attitude.

I believe we can face big problems like Climate Change and do our best to ameliorate them.

Hook line and sinker.

"Global warming is here. Man is changing the planet. Buy carbon offset credits, quick!"

Oops. We got caught falsifying the data.....

"Global climate change is here. Man s changing the planet. Buy carbon offset credits, quick!"

The gullibility of so many is so sad.

[tshrimp]

Originally Posted by MadeTheSwitch

You sure do live in some sort of alternate reality don't you? It's a proven fact that the ocean temps are rising. It is a proven fact that polar ice is melting. It's a proven fact that we are experiencing more violent tropical weather farther north more frequently. What part of that is lost on you?

http://reasonabledoubtclimate.wordpr...-temperatures/

I know...it doesn't support your claims, so it must an unreliable link. I will save you the trouble as that tends to be the response.

[Mac'nCheese]

Originally Posted by thewitt

Hook line and sinker.


The gullibility of so many is so sad.

Why are you bringing religion into this?

[MadeTheSwitch]

Originally Posted by tshrimp

http://reasonabledoubtclimate.wordpr...-temperatures/

I know...it doesn't support your claims, so it must an unreliable link. I will save you the trouble as that tends to be the response.

Reality supports my claim. Each summer more and more of the ice melts up north. Places that have not seen glacial melt before are now seeing it. And then there are the storms that are there for all to see...if you would just open your eyes. But yeah, it's much better to stick your head in the sand and joke about it instead, right? Just like this guy:

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by thewitt

The gullibility of so many is so sad.

I hate to admit it ... but I will take some delight as people like you are marginalized to the fringe.

It seems like the perfect place for you to reside.

[quasinormal]

Why should the state cater for citizens capable of providing for themselves?

The whole paradigm of energy production has completely changed over the last ten years with technologies like solar, wind, tri/bi generation etc etc.

[Anuba]

Originally Posted by tshrimp

If it makes you feel any better Global Warming (now global climate change due to temp fluctuations, and some for the cooler) has been dis proven time and again. It has become such big business now that it is profitable that Global Climate change exist. Keep the rumor going and we can make more money.

Oh yeah, HUGE business compared to the crummy little cottage industry that is the oil industry. Green energy startups have so much marketing muscle compared to the oil industry, too... those poor oil guys can barely afford PR and marketing. Then again, the oil industry has no important stake in this matter, so why would they spend resources on PR?

In other news, a 9-legged fluorescent monkey flew in through my window and recited Poe while performing a traditional sarcastic dance.

[AP_piano295]

Originally Posted by thewitt

Oops. We got caught falsifying the data.....

Never happened.

Originally Posted by thewitt

Man s changing the planet

Are you actually attempting to suggest that we aren't changing the planet? I assume all these buildings, highways, mines, oil wells, power lines existed before we showed up?

Of course we're changing the planet.

Originally Posted by thewitt

The gullibility of so many is so sad.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

----------

Originally Posted by tshrimp

http://reasonabledoubtclimate.wordpr...-temperatures/

I know...it doesn't support your claims, so it must an unreliable link. I will save you the trouble as that tends to be the response.

No if claims do not stand up to scientific rigor and examination I ignore them. If a claim is counter to my beliefs but is based on sound science I include it into my considerations.

EDIT: Oh and I'll explain to you why your website is BS. You can manipulate averages by taking sample sizes which are too small.

For example if I wan't to calculate the yearly annual income of a bartender, and I go to a bar on New Years Eve and ask the bartender how much he/she made that night, and they tell me $2000.00 dollars. I then multiply that by 365 and come to the conclusion that the bartender makes 730,000 dollars per year.

Do you see how my logic is flawed?

[NT1440]

Originally Posted by thewitt

Hook line and sinker.

"Global warming is here. Man is changing the planet. Buy carbon offset credits, quick!"

Oops. We got caught falsifying the data.....

"Global climate change is here. Man s changing the planet. Buy carbon offset credits, quick!"

The gullibility of so many is so sad.

It's amazing that you automatically think that we're in favor of a carbon market. I personally just see it as a way for big business to pay measly amounts rather than clean up their processes.

But hey, whatever your filter tells you.

[lannister80]

Originally Posted by thewitt

Hook line and sinker.

"Global warming is here. Man is changing the planet. Buy carbon offset credits, quick!"

Oops. We got caught falsifying the data.....

Except that those researches have been vindicated by the NSF OIG and other investigative bodies OVER and OVER and OVER.

No one falsified anything. Period.

[Don't panic]

Originally Posted by lannister80

Except that those researches have been vindicated by the NSF OIG and other investigative bodies OVER and OVER and OVER.

No one falsified anything. Period.

except for thewitt and reality, of course...

[Spectrum Abuser]

The United States needs to embrace more coal and natural gasoline for energy production.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by Spectrum Abuser

The United States needs to embrace more coal and natural gasoline for energy production.

And how do you balance that need with the need to deal with Climate Change?

Is it even an issue with you?

[Spectrum Abuser]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

And how do you balance that need with the need to deal with Climate Change?

Is it even an issue with you?

Cheap and reliable energy is what lays the infrastructure for job growth and innovation. Green energy is neither of these with an exception of hydro-power. I'm more concerned about the fact that much of the job market is unstable at the moment with people living one day to the next. Coal production should increase where possible and natural gasoline exploration should continue and the extraction and use of this resource should increase. In the United States alone we have enough natural gasoline to last for centuries at current energy usage.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by Spectrum Abuser

Cheap and reliable energy is what lays the infrastructure for job growth and innovation. Green energy is neither of these with an exception of hydro-power. I'm more concerned about the fact that much of the job market is unstable at the moment with people living one day to the next. Coal production should increase where possible and natural gasoline exploration should continue and the extraction and use of this resource should increase. In the United States alone we have enough natural gasoline to last for centuries at current energy usage.

Or in other words, Climate Change is not at all an issue with you.

Okay.

That's cool ... I guess.

I was just curious.

Edit: I do want to add one thing ...

I live in Northern California, in a region historically known for its timber and fishing. For decades people looked at these resources and took a "jobs first" attitude towards them. Then the timber ran out. Then the fish ran out. Then the jobs ran out.

"Jobs first" (in my book) is no way to create a sustainable future. Sure jobs are important. But they shouldn't be prioritized over the everything else. If we don't plan for the long term, then reality catches up to us pretty quickly.

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Originally Posted by aaronvan

In summary, we’re not going to stop climate change so we better learn to live with it.

I sure hope you don't live on the Jersey Shore or North Carolina coast.

There was a recent FrontLine that was all about climate obfuscation. Pretty interesting. "Climate of Doubt":

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...mate-of-doubt/

[hulugu]

Originally Posted by aaronvan

Think about it. We in the First World will never surrender our fossil fuel energy-based lifestyle and the Second and Third World populations will never stop trying to enjoy the luxeries that we take for granted. You and I are not going stop driving, stop purchasing disposable computer crap, or do anything that crimps our lifestyle. Furthermore, there is only one zero-greenhouse emission energy source that can possibly meet the baseload power requirements that fossil fuel provides and that source is nuclear fission. Not solar panels, not windmills. Only nuclear power can replace fossil fuels. Unfortunately, the so-called “green” movement dogmatically rejects nuclear power.

In summary, we’re not going to stop climate change so we better learn to live with it.

Eh, to say that the "green movement dogmatically rejects nuclear power" is incorrect.

In 2007, the co-founder of Greenpeace no-less is the co-chairman of the Nuclear Energy Institute's Clean and Safe Energy Coalition. In Sept. he went to Iowa State to speak about nuclear energy.

Here's also a 2006 from NPR about the green movement's shift toward nuclear energy as a solution.

Originally Posted by tshrimp

If it makes you feel any better Global Warming (now global climate change due to temp fluctuations, and some for the cooler) has been dis proven time and again. It has become such big business now that it is profitable that Global Climate change exist. Keep the rumor going and we can make more money.

Originally Posted by thewitt

Hook line and sinker.

"Global warming is here. Man is changing the planet. Buy carbon offset credits, quick!"

Oops. We got caught falsifying the data.....

"Global climate change is here. Man s changing the planet. Buy carbon offset credits, quick!"

The gullibility of so many is so sad.

Yes, but who's the fish? Because I see two flounders struggling against the line.