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Old Nov 1, 2012, 12:26 PM   #76
frayne182
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Originally Posted by osofast240sx View Post
iPad 2 lacks:
LTE
32 & 64GB
Bluetooth 4.0
FaceTime front camera
5mp rear camera
Siri
I guess I'm the only idiot that takes pics with a tablet
well I guess so.

I didn't call anyone idiots BTW.


But I mentioned Siri, cameras, and LTE.


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Old Nov 1, 2012, 12:34 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by ChrisA View Post
The way to set up stereo speakers is to make an equilateral triangle with the listener and each speaker at one point. So if you place the speakers 6 feet apart that means you should be 6 feet from each speaker. It real life it depends on the size of the room and you might have to compromise.

The true audiophile would re-design his room so that he could get proper speaker placement. But most people don't care much about sound quality to do that.

The equilateral triangle rules is a good start. Then after that think about the distance from the wall(s) and especially from corners

OK, bottom line. The mini iPad has two speakers but Apple was correct to NOT call it "stereo". It is just "two speakers". The device is incapable of stereo sound reproduction. It can't come even close to an equilateral triangle.
Lol you'd have to be listening 2" away from it!
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 12:55 PM   #78
lianlua
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Originally Posted by simmo0916 View Post
Why is it no one ever mentioned the mono speakers on an iPad before now? Is it because of the Amazon ad actually drawing attention to it?
Nobody complained before. Seems like a lot of people who don't have a clue jumping on the bandwagon... ANY bandwagon just to have a say.
Some did, but only in building checklists in the "dial goes to 11" school of creating competing products.

The iPad already had two speakers, but as has been true since forever, "stereo" sound on a small mobile device is basically pointless except for marketing. Apple's two speakers got a little more separation than on previous iPads but although it's technically stereo, there's nothing to gain by marketing as such.

You'd immediately have people calling out Apple for the pointless stereo speakers (often the same people who were complaining that x brand put stereo speakers in their tablet and Apple didn't because they're greedy).

The problem is that people respond to simple sound bites and rarely stop to think about the whole picture. It's basic marketing, whether it's electronics or cars or politics. Amazon just didn't have a checklist way of saying "we think our tablet sounds really good and we have no idea what the iPad sounds like but we're going to tell you it's worse!"
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 01:10 PM   #79
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The fire HD has their stereo speakers positioned well. I haven't heard it yet but I'd be shocked if it didn't have stereo imaging that's miles better than the mini.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 01:31 PM   #80
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Cool idea. Let me jump on that and jump the shark at the same time.
In that case, why not 5.1?

What about 7.1?

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Old Nov 1, 2012, 01:43 PM   #81
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After seeing this teardown i cannot see anything premium but the design and the price. Just look at all that glue put inside the ipad to drive the cost down and those condensers soldered onto the logic board (step13). I bet a 10 yrs old can do a better job soldering those components. But hey, we are blinded by the packing.
I've teared down all my electronics (must be hundreds over the course of 30 years) and i've never seen a worst assembly job that i've seen in this ipad.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 01:43 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by jsw View Post
8-track? Seriously?

Reel-to-reel or nothing, in my opinion. Well, I might consider a gramophone as well, for nostalgic reasons.
No way. Some 8-track players had this big honking depressable lever that you could whack to change tracks. That'd be great! Tiny thin little iPad Mini with this gigantic bar coming out of it...

As a side note - when I was a kid I had this exact player:

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Old Nov 1, 2012, 02:52 PM   #83
lianlua
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The fire HD has their stereo speakers positioned well. I haven't heard it yet but I'd be shocked if it didn't have stereo imaging that's miles better than the mini.
While I'm sure that's true, it still doesn't make it useful. The speakers are still far too close together--about 6 inches apart--and although they project backwards, by the time they reflect off the room to come back, there's not much to hear in the channel separation. I've noticed that the speakers have good volume and clear for voice and sound effects, but they're not enjoyable to use for music or movies, so what's the point? The positioning might maximize the limited stereo effect in landscape, but it also poses a problem because they're located exactly where it's most natural for me to rest my fingers on the back of the device. In portrait, they're fine...but point up and down instead of left and right.

The speakers on my Fire HD are fine, don't get me wrong, but I have never once gone, "wow, stereo sound!" when using it. It's just gimmicky on a small device--it'll never make up for the tiny speakers with limited range. You're always better off with headphones or outputting to a set of decent, normal-sized speakers.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 03:52 PM   #84
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I wouldn't be buying any tablet for it's 'stereo speakers' I don't even rely on the built in speakers in my computer, the sound it okay for beeps and short messages but to watch something or listen to music put on the head phones/ear plugs. Spacing is also an issue, I used to have my computer speakers right behind the LCD so relatively close together because of space constraints. Now with my new desk they are over 1 meter apart, much better stereo sound out of them.

As for the Mini it's self I was looking forward to it but 2 things are stopping me from getting one, the higher that expected cost and more important the non retina LCD... you just know in 6-12 months they'll update it with something better.

Right now I'd rather buy the big brother for a little extra money even if it's not so compact as the 8" Mini and lets face it, its NOT 7" it's closer to 8!

Last edited by Lancer; Nov 1, 2012 at 04:25 PM.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 07:18 PM   #85
hchung
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Originally Posted by Westside guy View Post
No way. Some 8-track players had this big honking depressable lever that you could whack to change tracks. That'd be great! Tiny thin little iPad Mini with this gigantic bar coming out of it...

As a side note - when I was a kid I had this exact player:

Image
Cue new iPhone dock concept in 3... 2... 1...
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 07:25 PM   #86
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Which is why Apple didn't even mention it during the launch methinks. There's some other objective here: to minimise the chance of sound loss by accidentally covering the speaker with your hand; or to generate more volume from a thinner enclosure; or maybe Cook just gave in… 'Yes, I know they want stereo! But the iPad's too small to… Oh what the hell, let them have stereo. An extra speaker costs us, what, 23 cents?'
Lol.. Also, for aesthetically pleasing symmetry is my guess.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 11:29 PM   #87
RinCa
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Originally Posted by Jeans89 View Post
So the Apple's iPad selection is now:

1. Stereo devices:
- white iPad mini
- black iPad mini

2. Mono devices:
- white iPad2
- black iPad2
- white new iPad (4 gen)
- black new iPad (4 gen)
How did you come to the conclusion that only the mini has stereo speakers? Is it just a guess or did Apple or another credible source confirm it?

On Apple's spec page, they label the ipad 2, Retina and the mini as having 1 speaker under 1 grille.
Only after ifixit found the 2 speakers, which in turn caused a customer to pointedly ask Schiiller if it was truly stereo, did we find out the truth.

So, how can we believe that previous ipads are mono?
Did they start misleading us now or for many years?



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Old Nov 2, 2012, 11:59 PM   #88
RinCa
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Originally Posted by kalsta View Post
Which is why Apple didn't even mention it during the launch methinks. There's some other objective here: to minimise the chance of sound loss by accidentally covering the speaker with your hand; or to generate more volume from a thinner enclosure; or maybe Cook just gave in… 'Yes, I know they want stereo! But the iPad's too small to… Oh what the hell, let them have stereo. An extra speaker costs us, what, 23 cents?'
Or they didn't want to bring attention to it because people would point out what a stupid design it is to put stereo speakers so close together.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 12:05 AM   #89
lianlua
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Originally Posted by RinCa View Post
So, how can we believe that previous ipads are mono?
The iPad has always been "stereo" in the sense that it has two speakers in it that deliver left and right channel audio. However, they're located in the same housing and I don't know if one speaker is dedicated to the left channel and one to the right, or if both channels are blended in both speakers.

In either case, it's not capable of producing stereo imaging given the spacing of the speakers.
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Or they didn't want to bring attention to it because people would point out what a stupid design it is to put stereo speakers so close together.
This. Phones and tablets will only ever have usable stereo sound via their audio output ports, not their built-in speakers.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 12:24 AM   #90
RinCa
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Originally Posted by lianlua View Post
The iPad has always been "stereo" in the sense that it has two speakers in it that deliver left and right channel audio. However, they're located in the same housing and I don't know if one speaker is dedicated to the left channel and one to the right, or if both channels are blended in both speakers.

In either case, it's not capable of producing stereo imaging given the spacing of the speakers.

This. Phones and tablets will only ever have usable stereo sound via their audio output ports, not their built-in speakers.
To me, stereo means 2 speakers, each connected to their own channel. The physical separation of those speakers is another issue.
Judging by Phil Schiller's response, "It is stereo" I'm going to believe it is stereo.

Now, can anybody definitively say all previous ipads are, or are not, stereo?
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 12:42 AM   #91
lianlua
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To me, stereo means 2 speakers, each connected to their own channel. The physical separation of those speakers is another issue.
Judging by Phil Schiller's response, "It is stereo" I'm going to believe it is stereo.
That applies to the iPad mini only, because the speakers are separated (barely). Separation can't be a separate issue because the definition of stereo is "two or more separate channels to produce a realistic effect by capturing spatial dimensions of a performance." You can't reproduce spatial dimensions without space. You can claim that that the little bit of space between the speakers on the iPad mini is enough for at least some stereophonic effect and be technically correct.

But other iPads have two separate speakers inside one grille, immediately adjacent to one another. One would have no way of knowing whether they're discrete channels unless you took apart the iPad and disconnected one of them to see if a channel dropped out. But even assuming they are discrete, they wouldn't be able to produce a stereo effect.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 06:52 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by John.B View Post
In that case, why not 5.1?

What about 7.1?

...Wish I was more geeked out on those protocols, but while we're on a roll, yeah Apple could do that... though it will involve may involve putting iOS devices (someone else's hopefully) in a pattern around your house strategically.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 06:55 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by madsci954 View Post
I wonder now if all future iOS devices will have stereo speakers.
Yep, Stereo speakers that are next to each other - not pointless at all.

I love how its powered by Samsung hardware, and everyone here says they'd never buy anything samsung.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:20 AM   #94
milo
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Originally Posted by lianlua View Post
The iPad has always been "stereo" in the sense that it has two speakers in it that deliver left and right channel audio.
Nope, no evidence of that. There have been two speakers, but they way they're feeding one speaker grille, it's more likely they are fed different frequencies of a mono channel (or even both playing the same mono signal).

Here's a test - Garageband for iOS has panning. Bring in a mono sound for playback and pan it left, center, right. Does left pan sound any different than right pan? There may be a slight difference in volume between center and side panning, but if it's mono there will be no change in position.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 11:21 AM   #95
John.B
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Nope, no evidence of that. There have been two speakers, but they way they're feeding one speaker grille, it's more likely they are fed different frequencies of a mono channel (or even both playing the same mono signal).

Here's a test - Garageband for iOS has panning. Bring in a mono sound for playback and pan it left, center, right. Does left pan sound any different than right pan? There may be a slight difference in volume between center and side panning, but if it's mono there will be no change in position.
Pretty much any stereo mix of an early Beatles song (or song from that era) will do for this test.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 07:21 PM   #96
lianlua
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Nope, no evidence of that. There have been two speakers, but they way they're feeding one speaker grille, it's more likely they are fed different frequencies of a mono channel (or even both playing the same mono signal).
You realize you just said exactly what I said, right?
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 08:37 AM   #97
milo
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You realize you just said exactly what I said, right?
Nope, not at all.

You said "The iPad has always been "stereo" in the sense that it has two speakers in it that deliver left and right channel audio."

I said the old ones had two speakers that were fed a summed mono signal, probably split into higher and lower frequencies by a crossover. Or possibly the exact same signal sent to both speakers.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 09:21 PM   #98
lianlua
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Nope, not at all.

You said "The iPad has always been "stereo" in the sense that it has two speakers in it that deliver left and right channel audio."
Almost there. Keep reading...

"However, they're located in the same housing and I don't know if one speaker is dedicated to the left channel and one to the right, or if both channels are blended in both speakers."
Quote:
I said the old ones had two speakers that were fed a summed mono signal, probably split into higher and lower frequencies by a crossover. Or possibly the exact same signal sent to both speakers.
Which is exactly what's in the bolded sentence that appears just after you evidently stopped reading the post before replying.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 09:04 AM   #99
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Nope, I read the whole thing. That part doesn't make me disagree any less with the part I quoted before. Unless by "stereo" (in scare quotes) you mean "not stereo".

Whatever.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 08:44 PM   #100
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Now, can anybody definitively say all previous ipads are, or are not, stereo (two speakers connected to their own left & right channel)?
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