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Old Nov 1, 2012, 01:47 PM   #26
JonL12345
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Ok, to elaborate on why hardware changes are crucial. To clarify, I am not advocating razer blade thin. But by having materials that are incredibly light and thin, you could for example have much improved battery life. If you half the thickness and weight of the components, you could put a thicker battery in there. That is just one example.

Now to the speed of the phone. A superfast phone has huge potential. What reasons? A vastly superior artificial intelligence. With computing power comes intelligence. Take chess software. On a slower PC, the same software plays less intelligent chess than on a faster PC. Its like an ant verses a human. The human wins. So, superfast phones = highly intelligent phones = easier to communicate with. It allows for the programming of more accurate and sophisticated software to make things easier for the end user.

Take voice recognition software. It is much better on a faster PC than a slower PC.

@tjl3, lets get the math right here. You are talking about 90% of a smaller pie verses 25% of a larger pie. Besides, your figures are wholly exaggerated.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 02:11 PM   #27
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Ok, to elaborate on why hardware changes are crucial. To clarify, I am not advocating razer blade thin. But by having materials that are incredibly light and thin, you could for example have much improved battery life. If you half the thickness and weight of the components, you could put a thicker battery in there. That is just one example.
Good point.. that I can buy... that would make a substantive difference.
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Now to the speed of the phone. A superfast phone has huge potential. What reasons? A vastly superior artificial intelligence. With computing power comes intelligence....
How much intelligence does a phone need? Since it is, by definition, almost always 'connected' it doesn't need to be much 'smarter'. I think we are seeing the future with Siri, in very broad brushstrokes (so not Siri specifically, but how Siri works.) On the device itself all Siri does is transmit your voice to the servers. It is there that the AI work is done, and then answer is simply transmitted back to the phone where Siri dictates it back to you. The huge advantage with doing this way (as opposed to putting an AI into the phone) is that upgrades, improvements, etc are rolled out for everybody simultaneously. An older phone can still take advantage of the improvements in the AI horsepower back in the server.

Just speculating.. but what if Apple is going to roll out other ways that they can provide a powerful AI service that is server based, and not try to keep the iPhones and iPads at the cutting edge of CPU power. Again... more software based, rather than hardware. At some point people stop upgrading their hardware because what they have works just fine. At that point you need better software.
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Take voice recognition software. It is much better on a faster PC than a slower PC.
On a PC yes, because the voice is rendered in-house (as it were). But most people still find typing, pointing and clicking to be a better GUI on a computer rather than voice commands. On a phone, voice dictation can be rendered back on the server farm (like Siri) rather than on the phone. And of course, typing, pointing, clicking doesn't work well on a phone - so you need really good voice control.

Tablets might need much improved CPUs however. You can't assume they are connected to the server farm, and they can easily benefit from a voice GUI. I wonder if Apple hasn't gone that route yet simply because they don't think they have a good enough CPU to do proper voice control?
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 04:11 PM   #28
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@niuniu, more Android smartphones are sold than Apple smartphones, so I see an increase towards coding for the larger Android market.
Isn't this what schmidt said and then had to eat his words? (well he never cares to acknowledge his stupidity)

I doubt aspiring windows 8 developers will care about android anymore. I find developing in visual studio to be magnitudes better than *cringe* eclipse and its horrible android emulator.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 04:23 PM   #29
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Nexus 4, piece of junk without even LTE that no one has seen yet, made of cheap plastic is somehow miles above the iPhone 5?

Not credible.

If I wrote an equivalent post on this Apple Mac forum website that said android was DOOMED, I bet it would end up in the wasteland in no time.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 05:12 PM   #30
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@dmelgar, you are mistaken. Its made with gorilla glass 2, like I believe the iphone 4S? Also, an unlocked iPhone does not have LTE either. Hmmmm.

Have you not looked at the specs of the Nexus 4, not to mention a much better battery life?

Also, note that Android has much higher market share than iOS and is growing much faster. Check this out: http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...ch-75.0-Market

In the last quarter, even though the iPhone 5 was launched with its fastest ever sales volume, they were still dwarfed by Android. Android shipped 6 times the number of iPhones in the last quarter, have 4 times the market share and grew their market share much more than iPhone did. That is one of the reasons why I think Apple is doomed. The Android competitors are pricing for market share, while Apple is pricing high for profit. They are sacrificing market share for short term profits. Getting greedy can kill your business.

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Old Nov 1, 2012, 06:32 PM   #31
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....
In the last quarter, even though the iPhone 5 was launched with its fastest ever sales volume, they were still dwarfed by Android. Android shipped 6 times the number of iPhones in the last quarter, have 4 times the market share and grew their market share much more than iPhone did. That is one of the reasons why I think Apple is doomed. The Android competitors are pricing for market share, while Apple is pricing high for profit. They are sacrificing market share for short term profits. Getting greedy can kill your business.
The part I bolded is where your logic falls apart. A company can't sustain artificially low prices indefinitely. As well, artificially low prices limits what you can reinvest back into the product. I don't know if Android is being subsidized or not. But even if there is a profit being made on each unit sold, it will be very small .. and that limits how much R&D can be invested. And if each unit is being sold at a loss, then Apple will be happy to keep things as they are. They make money, Android loses money. The more Nexus 4 units they sell, the more money they lose. That's a winning situation for Apple. At some point the price has to go up on the Nexus 4 - and they will lose a lot of goodwill.

Also keep in mind that Apple is managing a healthy margin on each iPhone sold. They may not sell as many units, but they are piling up the cash to reinvest in the company and R&D. But it also gives them lots of flexibilty. If Apple feels they are not selling enough units, they can drop the price, and if they wanted - drop it by a lot. Android... not so much.

I think Apple is exactly where they want to be. They have a competitor who is bleeding money trying to gain marketshare. A competitor who is (successfully) trying to capture the low-end, low-cost, low-expectations market. While Apple continues to do what it has always done... Apple owns the high profit margin end the sector. Just like they do with computers.

Also... Apple sells lots of things besides iPhones... they are far from doomed. I mean, they are doomed... but ultimately we all are. I just think we are going to see it anytime soon. Wait...let me check my near earth asteroid forecast.... There are 1343 known near earth asteroids, with one coming this week within 2.7 lunar distances... so it's OK, were good... Apple is not doomed in the foreseeable future. Things may change of course, but not this year at least.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 06:46 PM   #32
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Selling at a lower price doesn't mean lower profits. You might sell more units to more than offset the lower profit margin. Think Wallmart. So pricing high does not mean more money for R&D, or that the competition is hemorrhaging money. Its simple math. Instead, you have to look at total costs and revenue. Only then can you establish who earns more.

Apple has been a premium brand for some time. However, the competition is now fierce and are beginning to undercut on price significantly, particularly with the superior spec Nexus 4. Google has pulled a rabbit out of the hat on this one.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 06:55 PM   #33
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All this mobile gear is doomed, regardless of brand, if we can't get past the whole battery life / charging issue. I hope I live long enough to see little kids laughing at pics of their grandmas' wall-wart-laden spike suppressors. But power management is not a sexy enough topic to reap the big R&D dollars, apparently. Pity. Whoever manages to turn up a way to drain off solar energy from a sullen grey Catskills or Pacific Northwest sky into a portable device charger (wireless in, wireless out) will get a Nobel prize some day.

So who will save our blink-eyed buddies when the juice to charge them up becomes really expensive, as fossil fuels fade away or are banned by agreement that we all need to keep breathing? Sure, Apple has come up with some major improvements in battery life for laptops and iDevices, but if they took a billion bucks worth of R&D dough and plugged it into the CHARGING side of the equation, I'd be thrilled.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 07:16 PM   #34
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A far superior operating system? I'll admit that I have not used Android outside of floor models of phones and tablets, and it seems to get the job done for most people, but I have not seen anything that screams "superior" (let alone "far superior") over iOS. They're both good, as far as I'm concerned. What advantages does Android offer over iOS?
You condemn something you barely even used.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 08:06 PM   #35
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Selling at a lower price doesn't mean lower profits. You might sell more units to more than offset the lower profit margin. Think Wallmart. ...
This is probably get this thread pushed into PRSI, sorry... but Walmart is not the best example to use. Walmart keeps their profit margins through shady labour practices including using undocumented immigrants (they've been found guilty in court of several labour infractions), and by killing off all local competition. Walmart's also entered an existing retail sector, and succeeded by eliminating masses of competition. Android entered a new sector, and has not actually managed to eliminate much competition. I will also point out that there are still lots of large retail outlets that compete in the higher-end market, make lots of money, and are expanding their marketshare. Just like Apple.

Remember.. this is not a discussion of who (Apple or Android) is doing better - your thesis is that Apple is "doomed." To make your point you can't just show that Android is doing well, you have to show evidence that Apple is on a downward spiral from which it is unlikely to recover.
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Apple has been a premium brand for some time. However, the competition is now fierce and are beginning to undercut on price significantly, particularly with the superior spec Nexus 4. Google has pulled a rabbit out of the hat on this one.
Fierce competition tends to hurt lower priced products... People who are willing to pay for a higher priced item don't tend to move to a lower priced product just because it's lower priced. The lower priced product has to offer at least as much value, if not more so. Higher specs aren't what makes a product a better value. What creates value is a product to offer solutions to the problems the consumer has.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 09:47 PM   #36
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I suppose Mercedes and Jaguar should also lower their prices and think like Walmart.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 09:56 PM   #37
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Apple was supposed to be doomed when the only people using Macs were the Graphic Arts and Printing Industry ... that was before the iPod.

Apple now sets the standard ... everybody else is just trying to compete.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 07:19 AM   #38
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Whatever you think of Walmarts business practices, it does not escape from the fact that some companies make more profit by selling cheap in larger volume. That is what we are talking about here.

The smartphone sector was dominated by Apple. Now, Android has 75% market share with Apple around 15%, as I understand it. If that is not destroying the competition then I don't know what is!

Androids success is inextricably linked to Apples success. If one grows market share, the other loses market share.

Yes, people want value. I agree with you. But here's the rub. Apple are pricing high with an increasingly inferior product. This applies particularly to the new Nexus 4 and 10 lineup. With Apple, you get less for more. Apple is cool, but it won't be long before paying through the nose for less will be viewed as decidedly uncool.

@Apple OC, lets not forget, without Steve Jobs at the helm, Apple nearly went bankrupt back in 1999. They escaped by the skin of their teeth. Steve Jobs was an exceptional entrepreneur and did one of the most miraculous turnarounds in business history.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 08:47 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by JonL12345 View Post
Whatever you think of Walmarts business practices, it does not escape from the fact that some companies make more profit by selling cheap in larger volume. That is what we are talking about here.

The smartphone sector was dominated by Apple. Now, Android has 75% market share with Apple around 15%, as I understand it. If that is not destroying the competition then I don't know what is!

Androids success is inextricably linked to Apples success. If one grows market share, the other loses market share.

Yes, people want value. I agree with you. But here's the rub. Apple are pricing high with an increasingly inferior product. This applies particularly to the new Nexus 4 and 10 lineup. With Apple, you get less for more. Apple is cool, but it won't be long before paying through the nose for less will be viewed as decidedly uncool.

@Apple OC, lets not forget, without Steve Jobs at the helm, Apple nearly went bankrupt back in 1999. They escaped by the skin of their teeth. Steve Jobs was an exceptional entrepreneur and did one of the most miraculous turnarounds in business history.
Could you state some ways the iP5 is inferior to let's say the new nexus 4 for example... Apple is still recognized at the forefront of releasing premium products. They may lack in features that other brands boast about, but premium fit and finish is still a hallmark of Apple.

----------

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This is probably get this thread pushed into PRSI, sorry... but Walmart is not the best example to use. Walmart keeps their profit margins through shady labour practices including using undocumented immigrants (they've been found guilty in court of several labour infractions), and by killing off all local competition. Walmart's also entered an existing retail sector, and succeeded by eliminating masses of competition. Android entered a new sector, and has not actually managed to eliminate much competition. I will also point out that there are still lots of large retail outlets that compete in the higher-end market, make lots of money, and are expanding their marketshare. Just like Apple.

Remember.. this is not a discussion of who (Apple or Android) is doing better - your thesis is that Apple is "doomed." To make your point you can't just show that Android is doing well, you have to show evidence that Apple is on a downward spiral from which it is unlikely to recover.


Fierce competition tends to hurt lower priced products... People who are willing to pay for a higher priced item don't tend to move to a lower priced product just because it's lower priced. The lower priced product has to offer at least as much value, if not more so. Higher specs aren't what makes a product a better value. What creates value is a product to offer solutions to the problems the consumer has.
Walmart also uses their buying power to drive down purchase prices from manufacturers as well. That helps in the bottom line a great deal.

----------

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@dmelgar, you are mistaken. Its made with gorilla glass 2, like I believe the iphone 4S? Also, an unlocked iPhone does not have LTE either. Hmmmm.

Have you not looked at the specs of the Nexus 4, not to mention a much better battery life?

Also, note that Android has much higher market share than iOS and is growing much faster. Check this out: http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...ch-75.0-Market

In the last quarter, even though the iPhone 5 was launched with its fastest ever sales volume, they were still dwarfed by Android. Android shipped 6 times the number of iPhones in the last quarter, have 4 times the market share and grew their market share much more than iPhone did. That is one of the reasons why I think Apple is doomed. The Android competitors are pricing for market share, while Apple is pricing high for profit. They are sacrificing market share for short term profits. Getting greedy can kill your business.
Yes market share is nice but then look at the breakdown of what devices run what version. It's plain to see that very few folks are using the latest and greatest cutting edge versions of Android (ICS, JB, and soon KLP). Most Android users get a budget device and stick with that rather than chase cutting edge device specs of OS versions. So Android's market share is large but mostly comprised of older devices on semi outdated software.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 09:23 AM   #40
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Whatever you think of Walmarts business practices, it does not escape from the fact that some companies make more profit by selling cheap in larger volume. That is what we are talking about here.

The smartphone sector was dominated by Apple. Now, Android has 75% market share with Apple around 15%, as I understand it. If that is not destroying the competition then I don't know what is!

Androids success is inextricably linked to Apples success. If one grows market share, the other loses market share.

Yes, people want value. I agree with you. But here's the rub. Apple are pricing high with an increasingly inferior product. This applies particularly to the new Nexus 4 and 10 lineup. With Apple, you get less for more. Apple is cool, but it won't be long before paying through the nose for less will be viewed as decidedly uncool.

@Apple OC, lets not forget, without Steve Jobs at the helm, Apple nearly went bankrupt back in 1999. They escaped by the skin of their teeth. Steve Jobs was an exceptional entrepreneur and did one of the most miraculous turnarounds in business history.

So now you're an MBA to match your internet CTO skills huh. I don't know why you keep prattling on about stuff you clearly don't have a clue about. You're way beyond your depth here.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 09:36 AM   #41
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I fear for the future of Apple. They were an innovative company with compelling design under Steve Jobs. However, we are now at a tipping point.

Steve jobs is no longer with Apple, they have a stale OS, their phones have now been matched in build quality (Nexus 4), the Android app store has caught up in volume of apps, they went backwards with maps and in my opinion, the wheels have started to fall off the Apple steamroller.

They have become a gigantic sloth that moves slower, innovates less and is milking their monopoly they created with clever product release events where everybody says "Amazing" a hundred times or "Incredible" in every other sentence. But people are not stupid. You can only be hoodwinked for so long.

When Apple fanboys start to look at Android, many feel cheated. They realise that Android has a far superior operating system and they have been ring-fenced by fanboy eulogizing, many of whom are just spouting stuff their heard their buddy say without looking for themselves.

We have reached a tipping point for Apple. Their share price already dropped on the announcement of the new Nexus prices. The city traders are not stupid, they can see what is happening. Apple is due a decline over the next 5 years as Google swamp the market with Android, with LG and particularly Samsung making huge gains in market share.

You read it here first.

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Old Nov 2, 2012, 11:04 AM   #42
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You certain that was the reason? I guess you can explain why AAPL is up nearly $4 today then, too.
I would question JonL's reasoning, too. But a $4 rebuttal to a $100 statement has problems on the face of it.

In this morning's trading, Apple's stock price is down about $115 from its historic high. An approximately 16% drop is significant. If the cause of the drop isn't the pricing of a competitor's product, what is it?

I'm not qualified to give investment advice, but with that caveat, I have noticed that the best time to buy a company's stock is when no one likes the company. Conversely the best time to sell is when the company is hugely popular - and profitable. So very few people follow the logic of those observations. Anyway, stocks tend to trade on expectations, rather than on history. Hence the consternation when a company reports record earnings and lower-than-expected projections.

Apple has been riding high. But what next? The predictable products are out there. Pundits wrote about tablets and an Apple model years before Apple introduced the iPad. The iPhone was a long time dream of many and the natural evolution from the PDA. Yes. Apple defined the battlefields with those products, but what's next? But the problem for the future often resides in the success of the past: selling lots of iPhones and iPads tends to make Apple a commodity company with accompanying pressure on margins. Sony and its current problems is a good example of that.

Apple is not doomed, of course. The company's megaload of cash is one of the proofs against that. But its current position reminds me of Sony and Hewlett Packard. The recent scramble at the top is another example. Whereas Jobs was able to provide a personality-driven playing ground for massive, and massively creative, egos, Mr. Cook cannot. (Of course you saw a Jobs/Cook comoparison coming.) Mr. Cook is an excellent CEO for transforming a creative, market creating company into a more mature, less exciting one.

Of course I could be wrong about all this and Apple's stock price miight go above $1000 within a year.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 11:32 AM   #43
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I would question JonL's reasoning, too. But a $4 rebuttal to a $100 statement has problems on the face of it.

In this morning's trading, Apple's stock price is down about $115 from its historic high. An approximately 16% drop is significant. If the cause of the drop isn't the pricing of a competitor's product, what is it?

I'm not qualified to give investment advice, but with that caveat, I have noticed that the best time to buy a company's stock is when no one likes the company. Conversely the best time to sell is when the company is hugely popular - and profitable. So very few people follow the logic of those observations. Anyway, stocks tend to trade on expectations, rather than on history. Hence the consternation when a company reports record earnings and lower-than-expected projections.

Apple has been riding high. But what next? The predictable products are out there. Pundits wrote about tablets and an Apple model years before Apple introduced the iPad. The iPhone was a long time dream of many and the natural evolution from the PDA. Yes. Apple defined the battlefields with those products, but what's next? But the problem for the future often resides in the success of the past: selling lots of iPhones and iPads tends to make Apple a commodity company with accompanying pressure on margins. Sony and its current problems is a good example of that.

Apple is not doomed, of course. The company's megaload of cash is one of the proofs against that. But its current position reminds me of Sony and Hewlett Packard. The recent scramble at the top is another example. Whereas Jobs was able to provide a personality-driven playing ground for massive, and massively creative, egos, Mr. Cook cannot. (Of course you saw a Jobs/Cook comoparison coming.) Mr. Cook is an excellent CEO for transforming a creative, market creating company into a more mature, less exciting one.

Of course I could be wrong about all this and Apple's stock price miight go above $1000 within a year.
Well said. There is an evolution going on within Apple. No longer is it run and products overseen by one person. I don't really see an evolutionist there that will be able to foresee and create the next big tech craze. Now it seems profitable to refine what is in the market, but not really stretch the market or captivate with what could be possible in the future. What google is doing with the nexus, Apple has been doing. Create products that drive consumer needs and fit into the puzzle of Apple's ecosystem. Perhaps one area of growth would be the vehicle integration market.

How long will that position be marketable remains to be seen. One thing is for sure, Android devices are definitely driving the smartphone market. The problem with that model is each device maker releases at least two flagship devices a year. Yes they are all android, but lack the continuity of one large ecosystem. To say you can make one android device work with another is not a reality. This is what Apple will have to sell as a feature that others struggle to realize and make a reality.

Samsung is really working on their custom UI to incorporate this cross device integration. Until Google adopts that mindset as a standard their market will be shot gun as seen in the pie chart for OS integration. Almost 54% of android powered phones are two major revisions behind in OS. So yes Android is cutting edge with cool features but you have to buy a device every year to keep pace. Even the S3 is almost 2 revs behind and that was the flagship device. (KLP was supposed to be announced but was pulled back)

I as many others prefer an integrated solution vice the piece meal make it work with hacks or apps mentality. Although it was fun to hack and flash roms, Apples total device inclusion within the ecosystem is what is helping drive Apple.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 12:10 PM   #44
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 12:50 PM   #45
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Whatever you think of Walmarts business practices, it does not escape from the fact that some companies make more profit by selling cheap in larger volume. That is what we are talking about here.
Yes, some companies do... Walmart is one example. Some companies try, and go bankrupt. Kmart, Woolworths, Zellers (Canada), etc etc. There are far more examples of companies that try to profit on volume and fail, imo. Besides... and to repeat... we aren't debating the 'best' practices for a company, we are debating whether Apple's practices 'doom' it. This was your starting point...
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The smartphone sector was dominated by Apple. Now, Android has 75% market share with Apple around 15%, as I understand it. If that is not destroying the competition then I don't know what is!
Then you don't understand competition. Apple is still selling more phones each year, over the previous year. So they are still building their customer base. For each unit Apple sells they make a profit on both the HW and SW. We don't know how they record it on their books, of course, but the unit as a whole is making them a profit. Plus, because it's a closed system - for better or worse - they make money on virtually all the apps purchased (the jailbroken units probably don't amount to much in the overall numbers).

Android is given away by Google, so they aren't making any money from it on other's HW, unless Google happens to have a maintenance contract with that handset maker. Which means that Google needs to make its money on the handsets it sells itself, plus the app market. But ... since anybody can release a smart phone with Android, Google has to compete with the other handset makers using Android. And since the OS is the same across all of those handsets, Google is competing, for the most part, on price. Premium features are hard to differentiate when all of your competitors are using the same toolbox.

So basically, you have a dozens of companies, giving their product away to keep marketshare, waiting for the weak companies to fold up shop and go away.

Meanwhile you have Apple selling their phones with about a 30% margin, if I understand correctly. Didn't I read somewhere that while Apple may have only 15% of the market, they own over half the revenue and close to 80% of the profit? I could be mistaken on the numbers, but it was something like that. That does not spell 'doomed' to me. It spells an opportunity for Apple to take some risks, which most of the Android makers can't afford.
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Androids success is inextricably linked to Apples success. If one grows market share, the other loses market share.
[Bold added] No, it doesn't necessarily. That is only true when you have already reached maximum market penetration. At the moment only a third of all phones sold are smart phones. There is still lots of room for both platforms to increase their market share.
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Yes, people want value. I agree with you. But here's the rub. Apple are pricing high with an increasingly inferior product.
Specs are not 'value.' You are falling into the same trap that most tech minded people fall into. The list on the side of the box has nothing to do with 'value'. It is the consumer, and only the consumer, who assigns 'value' based on the look, feel, and how easy it is to use. Plus a bunch of other things too.


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....
Walmart also uses their buying power to drive down purchase prices from manufacturers as well. That helps in the bottom line a great deal....
A lesson Apple has learned too. They have been very successful at not only getting parts at a preferred price, they have hobbled their competition by sometimes buying up the entire supply of something. Or, in one case, buying up the bulk of airfreight capacity prior to Christmas, leaving their competition having to get their product to market by ship.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 02:38 PM   #46
Scrub175
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Originally Posted by snberk103 View Post
Yes, some companies do... Walmart is one example. Some companies try, and go bankrupt. Kmart, Woolworths, Zellers (Canada), etc etc. There are far more examples of companies that try to profit on volume and fail, imo. Besides... and to repeat... we aren't debating the 'best' practices for a company, we are debating whether Apple's practices 'doom' it. This was your starting point...
Then you don't understand competition. Apple is still selling more phones each year, over the previous year. So they are still building their customer base. For each unit Apple sells they make a profit on both the HW and SW. We don't know how they record it on their books, of course, but the unit as a whole is making them a profit. Plus, because it's a closed system - for better or worse - they make money on virtually all the apps purchased (the jailbroken units probably don't amount to much in the overall numbers).

Android is given away by Google, so they aren't making any money from it on other's HW, unless Google happens to have a maintenance contract with that handset maker. Which means that Google needs to make its money on the handsets it sells itself, plus the app market. But ... since anybody can release a smart phone with Android, Google has to compete with the other handset makers using Android. And since the OS is the same across all of those handsets, Google is competing, for the most part, on price. Premium features are hard to differentiate when all of your competitors are using the same toolbox.

So basically, you have a dozens of companies, giving their product away to keep marketshare, waiting for the weak companies to fold up shop and go away.

Meanwhile you have Apple selling their phones with about a 30% margin, if I understand correctly. Didn't I read somewhere that while Apple may have only 15% of the market, they own over half the revenue and close to 80% of the profit? I could be mistaken on the numbers, but it was something like that. That does not spell 'doomed' to me. It spells an opportunity for Apple to take some risks, which most of the Android makers can't afford.
[Bold added] No, it doesn't necessarily. That is only true when you have already reached maximum market penetration. At the moment only a third of all phones sold are smart phones. There is still lots of room for both platforms to increase their market share.
Specs are not 'value.' You are falling into the same trap that most tech minded people fall into. The list on the side of the box has nothing to do with 'value'. It is the consumer, and only the consumer, who assigns 'value' based on the look, feel, and how easy it is to use. Plus a bunch of other things too.




A lesson Apple has learned too. They have been very successful at not only getting parts at a preferred price, they have hobbled their competition by sometimes buying up the entire supply of something. Or, in one case, buying up the bulk of airfreight capacity prior to Christmas, leaving their competition having to get their product to market by ship.
Very true.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 02:54 PM   #47
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Android a superior OS? Yeah I stopped reading after that. We have iPads and a samsung galaxy tab in the house... do you know who uses it? No one, it's a terrible user un-friendly device.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 02:55 PM   #48
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Apple's doomed, Microsoft dying a slow death, Google enjoying the last big hurrah before it's inevitable fall...

Wow. Going by these thread titles, it's safe to say that everyone in the computer industry is fairly well good and screwed, huh? I guess in 10 years we'll be communicating via signal fire, doing spreadsheets on large rolls of papyrus, and figuring out complex equations with an abacus.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 12:08 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by JonL12345 View Post
I fear for the future of Apple. They were an innovative company with compelling design under Steve Jobs. However, we are now at a tipping point.

Steve jobs is no longer with Apple, they have a stale OS, their phones have now been matched in build quality (Nexus 4), the Android app store has caught up in volume of apps, they went backwards with maps and in my opinion, the wheels have started to fall off the Apple steamroller.

They have become a gigantic sloth that moves slower, innovates less and is milking their monopoly they created with clever product release events where everybody says "Amazing" a hundred times or "Incredible" in every other sentence. But people are not stupid. You can only be hoodwinked for so long.

When Apple fanboys start to look at Android, many feel cheated. They realise that Android has a far superior operating system and they have been ring-fenced by fanboy eulogizing, many of whom are just spouting stuff their heard their buddy say without looking for themselves.

We have reached a tipping point for Apple. Their share price already dropped on the announcement of the new Nexus prices. The city traders are not stupid, they can see what is happening. Apple is due a decline over the next 5 years as Google swamp the market with Android, with LG and particularly Samsung making huge gains in market share.

You read it here first.

Jon
you're on crack if you truely believe this.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:30 PM   #50
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by smellysox8 View Post
You condemn something you barely even used.
I said that I don't see anything that makes it "superior" or "far superior" and further claim that, as far as I'm concerned, both systems are good. How is that condemnation in any sense of the word?
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