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Old Nov 1, 2012, 03:24 PM   #51
knemonic
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Originally Posted by aplnub View Post
When mine comes in I will just put a splitter and meter on it. We can see exactly how much it is pulling.
Nice, keep us posted, I might actually be inclined to get the 12 watt if it is actually charging it at that rate.

The mini would charge faster than the iphone, which would be great (I know I am going to end up using the crap out the mini, since it will be so easy to take everywhere).
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 03:26 PM   #52
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who cares... charging faster just means more heat build up.. I for one am glad the charger is a lower wattage.. also it has a smaller battery than the larger iPad...






Typed out on my 57 Inch TV.
This is the most ludicrious reasoning I have ever seen.


We are talking about a minute difference in heat. Neither the 10W or 5W power adapters compare to the heat generated by charging any laptop. I don't see how this would be a concern. As previously mentioned, the iPad mini has a battery 3 times larger than the iPhone 5 so it will take considerably longer charging it off the same power adapter.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 03:48 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Doomtomb View Post
This is the most ludicrious reasoning I have ever seen.


We are talking about a minute difference in heat. Neither the 10W or 5W power adapters compare to the heat generated by charging any laptop. I don't see how this would be a concern. As previously mentioned, the iPad mini has a battery 3 times larger than the iPhone 5 so it will take considerably longer charging it off the same power adapter.

feel the charger...
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 03:57 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Doomtomb View Post
This is the most ludicrious reasoning I have ever seen.


We are talking about a minute difference in heat. Neither the 10W or 5W power adapters compare to the heat generated by charging any laptop. I don't see how this would be a concern. As previously mentioned, the iPad mini has a battery 3 times larger than the iPhone 5 so it will take considerably longer charging it off the same power adapter.
While not the person that made the claim, I wouldn't call it ludicrous. We're not talking about total heat generated, but the heat generated minus what can be safely dissipated. Take the heat output from your for example, it spreads out evenly across a lot of mass, and dissipates greatly, leaving you with a comfortable temperature. Take that same quantity of heat and sink it into a steal marble, and suddenly you have a marble at a temperature you can't touch.

Smaller devices have a harder time in general dissipating heat, while at the same time being more compact and less surface area. They (in general) HAVE to produce less heat just to end up with the same temperature of a similar and larger device.

Now, nerd hat aside for a second, that may not apply to the mini vs the full ipad. However, thinking that it's ludicrous that just because the full iPad doesn't heat up means that the Mini won't heat up is silly
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 03:58 PM   #55
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I didn't say size had anything to do with it. I said "design constraints", and size, or the effects of size *might* have something to do with it. For example, to shove power power into the device might have resulted in more heat, due to the compact size the device may not have been able to safely handle that heat.

And as someone else pointed out, the charge time of a mini in a perfect world at 5 watts would still be faster than a full sized iPad at 10 watts. So there was little reason to sacrifice (if that is the case) some other aspect of the design in order to archive a sub two hour charge time from 0% to 100%. Like I said, "Design Constraints".



Oh, haha, I get it, you were acting like a troll with a quick one liner. Too funny. Really. Tears in my eyes.

Yeh but it could be made "better" support faster charging
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 04:04 PM   #56
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Yeh but it could be made "better" support faster charging
Without knowing the trade offs that the engineers had in front of them, it's hard to say which scenario I'd call "better".
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 04:11 PM   #57
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Without knowing the trade offs that the engineers had in front of them, it's hard to say which scenario I'd call "better".
Will know soon enough mate, once mine arrives, I'll charge it with iPad and monitor its vitals (charge rate, battery temp). If it does what I think it will, it's jus apple being cheap as always.. But we'll see soon enough.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 04:21 PM   #58
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Probably it's not 5 watts even though it looks like the 5 watt adapter. Probably it's a more than 5 but less than 10.
It's 5 watt.

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Old Nov 1, 2012, 04:29 PM   #59
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Cost cutting....
More like Apple shooting themselves in the foot.

All these things will add up.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 04:35 PM   #60
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 04:38 PM   #61
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Will know soon enough mate, once mine arrives, I'll charge it with iPad and monitor its vitals (charge rate, battery temp). If it does what I think it will, it's jus apple being cheap as always.. But we'll see soon enough.
While that will eliminate some of the known tradeoffs, it will not eliminate all of the trade offs, known and unknown.

What if there were not enough of the require component to ship before Christmas? What if the component could not fit in the required space? What if there was an increase failure rate of 0.0001%? What if it would have required a different, and perhaps lower capacity battery?

We just don't know. And of all the things Apple could have skimped on, this does not seem like a likely one.

----------

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Originally Posted by Krazy Bill View Post
More like Apple shooting themselves in the foot.

All these things will add up.
Apparently nick was joking. Weren't you, nick?
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 05:11 PM   #62
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It it just me or has the sarcasm around here gotten ridiculously dry?




...and less funny.
Pretty much so.

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Old Nov 1, 2012, 06:27 PM   #63
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Umm... I'm not sure if the iPad adapters are intended to be used with iPhones at all.

My wife accidentally used her iPad 10w adapter a couple of times to charge her iPhone and yes, it absolutely charged faster, however it wouldn't hold a charge worth a damn anymore and only got worse every time she plugged it into the wrong adapter. It would go from 100% to 0% in 2 hours of use after a while, maybe 4 or 5 hours in mostly standby, it was crazy!

I'd love to see an official document from Apple that says if it's safe to use the 10w/12w adapters with iPhones or not. Until then I'll continue making sure I don't plug into the wrong one...
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 06:31 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by orangebluedevil View Post
It's an iPod Touch battery...just 3x bigger. The iPad Touch battery max wattage is 5W. So it's not a shock that the max wattage is 5W.

If you think that the max wattage is 10W (or 12W) and that Apple would ship a 5W charger to save money - you clearly don't follow Apple closely.
Thank you. Most people really don't understand the specifics of battery technology very much. Battery technology is very complicated and there are a lot of small but significant details.

For Apple to get this smaller battery to provide the same 10+ hours of batt life, they had to scale down the max wattage and essentially make a much bigger iPod touch battery. When you increase max watt, it's always going to affect both the battery drain times as well as the longevity of the battery in the long run. That's why the charger is 5W, because it was designed for it. There's also the issue of making these batteries SAFE, lithium cells can be very dangerous and must be engineered properly, not just go gungho because "yay faster charge times."

Not because Apple is nickel and diming you. Anyone who thinks that would do best to inform themselves.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 07:27 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by macmurray View Post
Umm... I'm not sure if the iPad adapters are intended to be used with iPhones at all.

My wife accidentally used her iPad 10w adapter a couple of times to charge her iPhone and yes, it absolutely charged faster, however it wouldn't hold a charge worth a damn anymore and only got worse every time she plugged it into the wrong adapter. It would go from 100% to 0% in 2 hours of use after a while, maybe 4 or 5 hours in mostly standby, it was crazy!

I'd love to see an official document from Apple that says if it's safe to use the 10w/12w adapters with iPhones or not. Until then I'll continue making sure I don't plug into the wrong one...
Nope the iPhone will only draw as much current as it needs. It will only draw 1 amp. It will charge and discharge as normal. If your phone died quicker, you probably had something drawing thr current.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 07:38 PM   #66
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will the 12W adapter (supplied with iPad 4) work with the iPad Mini without damaging it ?
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 07:51 PM   #67
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it appears apple may have went the cheap route. we'll see if it's a big deal though
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 08:15 PM   #68
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it appears apple may have went the cheap route. we'll see if it's a big deal though
No, they didn't. Read about lithium ion technology before making silly assumptions. The battery is designed a certain way. Battery life, longevity, and safety are all factors when talking about watts and power draw.

Would you say Apple went the cheap route because the iPod comes with a 5W adapter? No, because that's what the battery is designed for. Same goes for the Mini. Stop jumping to silly conclusions.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 08:26 PM   #69
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Yay, slow charging times just like the iPad 3.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 09:05 PM   #70
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I'd love to see an official document from Apple that says if it's safe to use the 10w/12w adapters with iPhones or not. Until then I'll continue making sure I don't plug into the wrong one...
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD836LL/A/
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC359LL/A/

Store links for both 10 and 12W adapters. Look at the "compatibility" list in the middle of the pages. It lists just about every iPod, iPhone, and iPad model.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 09:10 PM   #71
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Gee, if the iPad mini is indeed capable of charging at 10-12W but they only included a 5W anyway... way to nickel and dime every bit of that $329..
It's likely not. The larger chargers dial down.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebluedevil View Post
It's an iPod Touch battery...just 3x bigger. The iPad Touch battery max wattage is 5W. So it's not a shock that the max wattage is 5W.

If you think that the max wattage is 10W (or 12W) and that Apple would ship a 5W charger to save money - you clearly don't follow Apple closely.
Dang straight, they would up the price to $349 to cover the costs
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 09:53 PM   #72
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I'd love to see an official document from Apple that says if it's safe to use the 10w/12w adapters with iPhones or not. Until then I'll continue making sure I don't plug into the wrong one...
The store listings

10 W adapter

12 W Adapter
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 10:16 PM   #73
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I have plugged a power meter in between wall socket and 10W adaptor and I can tell you the iPhone 5 for example doesnt draw any more power than if it were on the 5w adaptor. FYI the 5W adaptor when charging pulled around 6.4W from the wall and the 10W charger pulled around 6.6W. There was absolutely no magical 11-12W wall draw going on, which is what happens when the iPad is charging off the 10W adaptor.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 10:23 PM   #74
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I know the 12 watt charger is compatible with the iPad Mini, but I'd like to know if it'll actually charge at that speed and not cap off at 5 watts an hour.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 03:59 AM   #75
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I know its probably utter tosh but I've found my iPhone battery lasts for less time when charged off the iPad charger..... might just be my imagination though.
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