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Old Nov 1, 2012, 12:59 PM   #1
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2 x GTX580 or 2 x GTX680 in Mac Pro 2010?

Ive got a few questions.. Planning to upgrade my Mac Pro 2010, cuz my 2008 8 core died *sob* (the 2010 was my gaming rig before this). The MP has a aging old 5770. My family runs a production studio and i was wondering if:

1. I know Mac Pro can't SLI.. But can After Effects sort of combine CUDA cores for better raytracing/rendering?

2. If #1 is possible, can i buy 2 x GTX570 and dump it on my Mac Pro? With external PSU of course.

3. If #2 is possible, what kind of external power supply will i need to power this beast?

4. If none of those above are possible, what is the best card i can get to have the best graphics performance for raytracing etc? (Not Quadro series.. Those are too expensive ). I can live without boot screens (PC cards) as long as it doesn't crash DVD player and stuffs.

and 5.. I game on Windows too

Thanks!
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 01:54 PM   #2
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If you're going to buy an external PSU anyway, just go directly with 2x 580, don't you think?

I think this should be possible, the MP Mobo has 2 PCIe x16 slots.
Be caureful that you buy a card that fits into these slots, e.g. an EVGA. I heard that the Point of View 570 for example uses a bit more than two slots, that means you can't use the second PCIe slot.

Yes, AE can combine the cards. That works.
And go with a 750W PSU. PSUs work the best at 40-65% usage, if you go above that, they make noise like a jet engine.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 03:05 PM   #3
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I would second that.

If you are going to go to the bother of getting the external PSU, go for dueling 580's.

(OK, they aren't really duelling, it just sounded cool)

Check Barefeats.com, he recently did tests with both 570s and 580s.

The Classified 580 3.0GBs he tested are very power hungry, they require 2 @ 8 pin and 1 @ 6 pin EACH.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 04:00 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by MacVidCards View Post
I would second that.

If you are going to go to the bother of getting the external PSU, go for dueling 580's.

(OK, they aren't really duelling, it just sounded cool)

Check Barefeats.com, he recently did tests with both 570s and 580s.

The Classified 580 3.0GBs he tested are very power hungry, they require 2 @ 8 pin and 1 @ 6 pin EACH.
So 750 is the minimum? I have a 500 with me.. Any idea start the PSU externally? (without mobo)

EDIT! How much power difference comparing 580 & 570? Can I power 2 x 570 with a normal 450/500 watt PSU? Cuz i have one lying around, and how much faster is 2 x 580 vs 2 x 570? 25%?
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 12:41 AM   #5
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Given that Nvidia says one single GTX 580 uses up to 244W, and you want two, it's going to be very close to 500w (but only if you're using both GPU's at 100% load..)
If you use other brands such as Asus or EVGA, the cards are factory overclocked and use even more power (The EVGA Classified Ultra+ 3GB is the fastest GTX580 on the market, but EVGA states a maximum power consumtiom of 450w...)

A GTX 570 uses 224w or so, double that and you're still close to 500w. I would recommend a bit more as 500w for a SLI-ready PSU. .
There are lots of benchmarks, tests and other threads out there comparing the GTX570/580. Maybe you want to have look in Google.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 03:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Awesome View Post
Given that Nvidia says one single GTX 580 uses up to 244W, and you want two, it's going to be very close to 500w (but only if you're using both GPU's at 100% load..)
If you use other brands such as Asus or EVGA, the cards are factory overclocked and use even more power (The EVGA Classified Ultra+ 3GB is the fastest GTX580 on the market, but EVGA states a maximum power consumtiom of 450w...)

A GTX 570 uses 224w or so, double that and you're still close to 500w. I would recommend a bit more as 500w for a SLI-ready PSU. .
There are lots of benchmarks, tests and other threads out there comparing the GTX570/580. Maybe you want to have look in Google.
How about a single Palt GTX 680? It uses 2 x 6 pin cable so MP should be able to handle it w/o problems. Its cheaper then 2 x 580 + 750watt PSU.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 01:15 PM   #7
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GTX 6xx have worse CUDA performace than the 5xx series.
The GTX 5xx were almost the same in performance in pro apps as the Quadro series, so Nvidia decided to cut them GTX down a little in CUDA power.

On the other hand, a GTX680 consumes WAY less power than a single GTX580 (not to mention a SLI-setup), as you said, you don't even need an external PSU.
SLI GTX 580 perform better in games though as a single GTX 680 in Windows, and as I said above, there will be a huge difference in pro apps between Dual GTX 580 and a single GTX 680.


Do you run several monitors? OS X cannot handle SLI, so each card of the SLI setup will get treated as a single card. Both can be used in GPU acceleated apps, but in daily tasks, only one GPU is used.
Unless you run more than 2 screens, a Dual-DPU setup is kind of an overkill in OS X.
Just my 0.02
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 02:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Awesome View Post
GTX 6xx have worse CUDA performace than the 5xx series.
The GTX 5xx were almost the same in performance in pro apps as the Quadro series, so Nvidia decided to cut them GTX down a little in CUDA power.

On the other hand, a GTX680 consumes WAY less power than a single GTX580 (not to mention a SLI-setup), as you said, you don't even need an external PSU.
SLI GTX 580 perform better in games though as a single GTX 680 in Windows, and as I said above, there will be a huge difference in pro apps between Dual GTX 580 and a single GTX 680.


Do you run several monitors? OS X cannot handle SLI, so each card of the SLI setup will get treated as a single card. Both can be used in GPU acceleated apps, but in daily tasks, only one GPU is used.
Unless you run more than 2 screens, a Dual-DPU setup is kind of an overkill in OS X.
Just my 0.02
Currently, i have 3 Dell S2340L display (got it for $150+- each), in the long run, (when 680's are cheaper). Dual GTX 680 will be much faster then Dual GTX 580 for pro apps right? And they have lower power consumption. I found Palit GTX 680 4GB for a little less then $500 each and compare that to GTX 580 1.5GB $380. So 2 GTX 580 will cost me roughly $760+- where as 2 x GTX 680 cost $950+- so thats about $190 difference (worth it?) The only downside with the GTX 680 is that i need to hack OpenCL to work every time i update OSX & with no boot screen (or is there a patch for it considering new iMac '12 uses GTX675MX? idk)

EDIT: Most of the time the pro work i does is mostly green screen, raytrace, some easy 3D, and if im not mistaken, only Adobe products can really make use of Cuda cores right? (correct me if im wrong) I do have a Windows on it and i plan to game on the system too, so its quite a tough decision which to choose.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 03:04 PM   #9
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570/580 are better for Pro/CUDA apps than 670/680

well established fact

some time with Google will help you out
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 03:31 PM   #10
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570/580 are better for Pro/CUDA apps than 670/680

well established fact

some time with Google will help you out
+1


You gotta decide what is more important to you, gaming or CUDA-working. OpenCL hack is no problem, I did it too with my EVGA GTX 570 2.5GB.

If you decide to use surround gaming on windows, which is possible with 3 screens and SLI, get at least the 3GB versions of the GTX 580 or the 4GB of the 680.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 04:02 PM   #11
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And my guess is that the OpenCl 2GB block will end as soon as a certain LATE Quadro card comes out.

There will either be a driver disk with it, or an update for it.

Apple will want to sell it at full retail (until 2014 or so) on the Apple Store and to do so, it will need to work.

They have kneecapped cards with more than 2GB to keep people buying the Quadro 4000 and 5870 on their site. (Still at Full Retail)

As soon as there is a card with more than 2GB that runs OpenCl this "fix" won't be needed anymore. Or perhaps it will become more targeted instead of this shotgun approach.

But I would advise people NOT to be scared of doing this.

There are very few scenarios where you will be staring at your screen in 6 months and saying "Gosh, i wish I had cheaped out and got the version of this card with LESS VRAM"
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 01:47 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacVidCards View Post
And my guess is that the OpenCl 2GB block will end as soon as a certain LATE Quadro card comes out.

There will either be a driver disk with it, or an update for it.

Apple will want to sell it at full retail (until 2014 or so) on the Apple Store and to do so, it will need to work.

They have kneecapped cards with more than 2GB to keep people buying the Quadro 4000 and 5870 on their site. (Still at Full Retail)

As soon as there is a card with more than 2GB that runs OpenCl this "fix" won't be needed anymore. Or perhaps it will become more targeted instead of this shotgun approach.

But I would advise people NOT to be scared of doing this.

There are very few scenarios where you will be staring at your screen in 6 months and saying "Gosh, i wish I had cheaped out and got the version of this card with LESS VRAM"
Guess what im gonna do is 1 x GTX 580, 1 x GTX 680. (Main reason why i do this is because 3GB GTX 580 is no longer available in some distributor stores and that it cost more then GTX 680 4GB.) Best for both sides. Ill try to find a 3GB GTX 580, and 4GB version of GTX 680. OpenCL hack seems very very easy (modifying a simple hex file) but its a bit annoying as update will screw this up.

From what i learn from this thread/the net
-> GTX 580 is 15% faster then GTX 680 in CUDA work, but only applies in AE/Premier

-> GTX 580 1.5GB/680 2GB does not require OpenCL Hack

-> GTX 680 4GB is 20 to 25% faster then GTX 580 in games/directx

-> GTX 680 runs way cooler and consumes way less power then GTX 580.

-> 2 x GTX 580 will perform 15% better then 2 x GTX 680 in AE/PR

-> 2 x GTX 680 will perform 25% better then 2 x GTX 580 in Windows/Gaming

-> So.. 1 x GTX 680 + 1 x 3GB GTX 580 = 7 to 10% slower in AE/PR? But 20% faster in the rest of the stuffs?

-> I understand that even if SLI works, both cards VRAM will be 3GB

Heres the pricing of the cards above available in my country lol..

The distributor/supplier store i usually go to:
GTX 570 - N/A
GTX 580 - N/A
GTX 580 - N/A
GTX 680 - $500+- (4GB version; Palit)
GTX 680 - $400+- (2GB version; Palit)

Normal stores
GTX 580 - $400+- (1.5GB version)
GTX 580 - $510+- (3GB version; Asus Direct CU; the rest unavailable)
GTX 680 - N/A didnt bother to ask
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 02:17 AM   #13
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Are you sure you are looking at 580?

Here in US they only come in 1.5 GB or 3.0 GB.

barefeats.com did some tests of our EFI'd cards.

he 3.0 GB "Classified" is really something, but you need a power plant to run it.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 02:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Are you sure you are looking at 580?

Here in US they only come in 1.5 GB or 3.0 GB.

barefeats.com did some tests of our EFI'd cards.

he 3.0 GB "Classified" is really something, but you need a power plant to run it.
yeah.. sry, 3GB.. But still.. it cost more then GTX 680 & eats MORE power
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 08:33 AM   #15
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yeah.. sry, 3GB.. But still.. it cost more then GTX 680 & eats MORE power
In Europe 3GB 580s are still a bit cheaper than 4GB 680s..

As I said, if you desperately need all CUDA power that you can ge together, go with 580s. If you rather want awesome, more future-proof gaming power , go with 680s. It's all up to you.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:33 AM   #16
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Quote:
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In Europe 3GB 580s are still a bit cheaper than 4GB 680s..

As I said, if you desperately need all CUDA power that you can ge together, go with 580s. If you rather want awesome, more future-proof gaming power , go with 680s. It's all up to you.
I did some render test on my friends GTX 580 (single) and GTX 680 (single) raytrace file took 6 mins to render on single GTX580 and 7 mins to render on single GTX 680. Both combined took only 4 mins to render. So im pretty happy with that result. On Windows, gaming is a huge difference, the 680 smokes the 580 by at least 25 to 30% in single. So now i got myself a single GTX 680 4GB and planning to get a used GTX 580 3GB off some local forums. Pictures up in a few moments
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 12:11 PM   #17
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I did some render test on my friends GTX 580 (single) and GTX 680 (single) raytrace file took 6 mins to render on single GTX580 and 7 mins to render on single GTX 680. Both combined took only 4 mins to render. So im pretty happy with that result. On Windows, gaming is a huge difference, the 680 smokes the 580 by at least 25 to 30% in single. So now i got myself a single GTX 680 4GB and planning to get a used GTX 580 3GB off some local forums. Pictures up in a few moments
Seems like a good compromise.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 04:42 PM   #18
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Seems like a good compromise.
Quite happy with the results even on a single GTX 680, its obviously 200 to 300% better then my HD 5770 or 8800GT. Heres what i got.

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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:27 AM   #19
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Looks good
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 07:55 PM   #20
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How is it performing?

Do you use an external PSU???
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:47 PM   #21
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So I would like to tag a question onto this. I am running Autocad and Solidworks. Would I be happier with a GTX570 than a GTX6xx. Mind you I don't want to run an external monitor, and would plan on running my second monitor with my existing 5770. 2010 8-core btw.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 02:53 AM   #22
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Did you have to flash that card in order to get it working on a Mac Pro?
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 11:10 AM   #23
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Did you have to flash that card in order to get it working on a Mac Pro?
Frequently Asked Questions About NVIDIA PC (non-EFI) Graphics Cards
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 11:42 AM   #24
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CADD Guy....

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So I would like to tag a question onto this. I am running Autocad and Solidworks. Would I be happier with a GTX570 than a GTX6xx. Mind you I don't want to run an external monitor, and would plan on running my second monitor with my existing 5770. 2010 8-core btw.
I'm a veteran CADD guy and play no games at all. I use Catia, Siemens NX, Autocad and others but primarily Solidworks for CADD. Plus I do a lot of rendering, primarily with Bunkspeed Pro which utilizes all the CUDA cores you can throw at it.

I recently upgraded my 2010 8-core to a 4GB 680 and I'm extremely happy with it's performance. This card flat out screams.

I will add. Before I bought the 680 I went the recommended route and bought a Quadro 4000. I was very disappointed with it's performance. It really sux to pay $800.00 for a graphic card and be disappointed with it's performance. I returned the Quadro and bought the 680 and couldn't be happier. I've been using it for a few months now.

Quadro 4000: 2GB ram, 256 CUDA cores = $800.00

GTX 680: 4GB ram, 1532 CUDA cores = $600.00

Go figure….. =)

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Old Nov 17, 2012, 12:09 PM   #25
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and if im not mistaken, only Adobe products can really make use of Cuda cores right? (correct me if im wrong)
Wrong... =)

Many software products utilize CUDA. Adobe, Autodesk, Bunkspeed & many others.
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