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Old Mar 8, 2012, 09:53 AM   #1
paulisme
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1080p Handbrake settings for new Apple TV?

What settings are you guys using or plan to use to convert MKV to M4V for the new Apple TV? In the past I've used the Apple TV 2 preset, but I'd like to up the resolution to 1080p.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 10:04 AM   #2
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What settings are you guys using or plan to use to convert MKV to M4V for the new Apple TV? In the past I've used the Apple TV 2 preset, but I'd like to up the resolution to 1080p.
I assume that the guys at HB will add an ATV3 preset. I believe they do this after testing various settings, which can't happen until they get their hands on one. The ATV3 can, presumably, handle a higher bit rate than the 2, so they can increase the RF value for ATV3 encodes.

If you're truly anxious to get started, I'd use the ATV2 preset, then up the resolution under Picture Settings to 1920 x 1080, making sure the "Keep Aspect Ratio" box is checked. That'll get you a 1080p encode, but it may be at a lower quality than the ATV3 can handle.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 10:15 AM   #3
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Yes, I've seen dynaflash post the message often enough that it's best to wait until they can get one and see what it can do, rather than trying to get a headstart. Once they have one, they can really work it over and develop a preset that respects- but pushes- the limit of the new hardware. As such, I'm standing by with my own media.

I'm also guessing that Apple is going to roll out some new software updates for Quicktime or iMovie, FCP, etc that probably takes great advantage of the new toy too. I've got a ton of homemade 1080HD (many years worth) all qued up ready for (re)rendering, awaiting the optimal options for doing so.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 10:39 AM   #4
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According to chat in the HB forums, the new preset will appear in the hightly builds once they get their hands on a unit.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 10:55 AM   #5
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Considering the current AppleTV can handle 7~8mbit 720P I'd suspect the new one should at least be able to handle that in 1080P - maybe a little higher.

But testing will be needed.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 10:57 AM   #6
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Yes, several devs have it on preorder (myself included). What works and what doesn't will be seen when we get our hands on it. I guarantee the atv(s) are probably the most targeted preset we usually hit. ... and hit it we will. There is much granularity as to what it can or can't do than what apple says in their published specs. Always has been and probably always will be. Hands on is the *only* way to truly know.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 11:47 AM   #7
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I've ordered a bluray drive and will buy the TV3 next Friday morning.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 11:57 AM   #8
paulisme
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I guess I'll hold off ripping Blu-rays until the Apple TV 3 preset is out then. Thanks.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 12:33 PM   #9
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Yes, several devs have it on preorder (myself included). What works and what doesn't will be seen when we get our hands on it. I guarantee the atv(s) are probably the most targeted preset we usually hit. ... and hit it we will. There is much granularity as to what it can or can't do than what apple says in their published specs. Always has been and probably always will be. Hands on is the *only* way to truly know.
Dynaflash,

As always, thanks for the Handbrake "insider" input and thanks for being involved in developing such a great program. It sure helps people like me make the most of the TV. Keep up the great work!
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 12:50 PM   #10
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Dynaflash,

As always, thanks for the Handbrake "insider" input and thanks for being involved in developing such a great program. It sure helps people like me make the most of the TV. Keep up the great work!
No problem. I can assure you as soon as fedex shows up it will get hammered on. Just like the atv 1 and atv 2.

I am curious to see what opts can be squeezed out of it at 1080p. Also if it can actually render 1080p to display instead of just decode it and downscale it to 720p (as the atv 2 does). It has to have more ram than the atv 1 and 2 have (256 mb). As they say ... proof will be in the pudding.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:05 PM   #11
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I am curious to see what opts can be squeezed out of it at 1080p. Also if it can actually render 1080p to display instead of just decode it and downscale it to 720p (as the atv 2 does).
Do you really think that's a possibility? Could they tout 1080p as they are doing while still actually only pushing 720p out of the box to the HDTV?

Wow, I ran right over to Apple's website and re-read all of the info they offer on it. It is worded such that it could downconvert 1080p files down to 720p (or less for that matter). It says nothing about outputting 1080p. There is an implication that it outputs 1080p but implications is one of a clever marketer's favorite tools.

Apple's stance could be that they are offering 1080p video files which play at 1080p on the new iPad and Macs. They don't absolutely confirm that 1080p flows to the display from this little box.

I almost wish you hadn't said that.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:10 PM   #12
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Do you really think that's a possibility? Could they tout 1080p as they are doing while still actually only pushing 720p out of the box to the HDTV?

Wow, I ran right over to Apple's website and re-read all of the info they offer on it. It is worded such that it could downconvert 1080p files down to 720p (or less for that matter). It says nothing about outputting 1080p. There is an implication that it outputs 1080p but implications is one of a clever marketer's favorite tools.

Apple's stance could be that they are offering 1080p video files which play at 1080p on the new iPad and Macs. They don't absolutely confirm that 1080p flows to the display.

I almost wish you hadn't said that.
I think this is very unlikely. The atv2 (after the sofware update) is able to decode high bit rate (h.264@4.1 high) 1080p mp4s. Of course the output is 720p. If the atv3 did the same thing, then there would be no difference between atv2 and 3
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:13 PM   #13
Mike Valmike
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You guys are using way, way too much bitrate. You can encode a blu-ray 1080p at 2k avg with 2-pass and handbrake will do a fantastic job, scarcely distinguishable from the original. And for those of us streaming via wi-fi, this can make the difference between being able to watch a stutter-free movie and not.

Paradoxically, the Apple presets in HB are not the optimal settings to encode for playback on Apple devices. You don't even need to use a preset for the most part -- just click High Profile, verify that framerate is same as source, then select variable 2-pass, and then give it an average bitrate to work with (and these figures are generous because I like to have very clean, clear videos):

Any 4:3 live TV (Star Trek DVDs, Big Bang, that sort of thing): 768
4:3 TV from anime or other low-framerate (Dora, etc): 384
DVD 16:9, not a lot of action: 768
DVD 16:9, a lot of action or concert music video: 1000
720p, not a lot of action: 1000
720p, a lot of action: 1500
1080p, not a lot of action: 1500
1080p, a lot of action: 2000
Any HD concert music video: 2000

I don't know why the 768 and 384 at that precision work so well -- a guy who was better with video taught me that and showed that it's just some kind of sweet spot. I can throw on some pretty effects-heavy stuff from before the HD era, encoded at 768, and it looks like live TV.

When I see people saying, oh, give it 3000-4000 (or gasp, more) it's just like, wow, that much data is barely even in there. A blu-ray rip fresh off MakeMKV might be 18 GB but that doesn't mean your final file has to be. Don't ever use RF or average quality settings because it overbits by a huge margin. Best of luck.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:15 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
No problem. I can assure you as soon as fedex shows up it will get hammered on. Just like the atv 1 and atv 2.

I am curious to see what opts can be squeezed out of it at 1080p. Also if it can actually render 1080p to display instead of just decode it and downscale it to 720p (as the atv 2 does). It has to have more ram than the atv 1 and 2 have (256 mb). As they say ... proof will be in the pudding.
Hey dynaflash,
Firstly, love handbrake. Its probably one of the best written video encoding tools out there.
Had a feature request
From a quick test i noticed that I was now able to flawlessly stream 1080p h.264@4.1(high) mp4 files to the atv2 after the software update.
I am thinking it may be worth introducing a "remux" option for the atv3 (assuming of course that the atv3 also supports these streams). That way we can save a lot of time on re-encodes
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:21 PM   #15
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Hey dynaflash,
Firstly, love handbrake. Its probably one of the best written video encoding tools out there.
Had a feature request
From a quick test i noticed that I was now able to flawlessly stream 1080p h.264@4.1(high) mp4 files to the atv2 after the software update.
I am thinking it may be worth introducing a "remux" option for the atv3 (assuming of course that the atv3 also supports these streams). That way we can save a lot of time on re-encodes
Subler can do most (if not all) of what you are requesting.

http://code.google.com/p/subler
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:24 PM   #16
dynaflash
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Originally Posted by atandon View Post
Hey dynaflash,
Firstly, love handbrake. Its probably one of the best written video encoding tools out there.
Had a feature request
From a quick test i noticed that I was now able to flawlessly stream 1080p h.264@4.1(high) mp4 files to the atv2 after the software update.
I am thinking it may be worth introducing a "remux" option for the atv3 (assuming of course that the atv3 also supports these streams). That way we can save a lot of time on re-encodes
HB cannot currently "remux" anything. Our current pipeline makes it harder than it might seem on the face of it. That said ... don't think we aren't looking at it

See nightstorms post about subler. it works great for this and is written by an hb dev. It works fantastic.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:28 PM   #17
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HB cannot currently "remux" anything. Our current pipeline makes it harder than it might seem on the face of it. That said ... don't think we aren't looking at it

See nightstorms post about subler. it works great for this and is written by an hb dev. It works fantastic.
They even have a beta binary available to write the 1080p HD tag for iTunes.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:29 PM   #18
atandon
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Subler can do most (if not all) of what you are requesting.

http://code.google.com/p/subler
True. Though I don't think it supports the capability to convert a dts stream to ac3. May need a separate tool for that
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:30 PM   #19
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They even have a beta binary available to write the 1080p HD tag for iTunes.
"They" (as in ritsuka) did it yesterday .. welcome to yesterday.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:31 PM   #20
atandon
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They even have a beta binary available to write the 1080p HD tag for iTunes.
True. Actually love that its able to fetch meta data (artwork, description, etc) for the movie. Its definitely a great tool. Just not sure though regarding its audio conversion capabilities
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:32 PM   #21
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True. Though I don't think it supports the capability to convert a dts stream to ac3. May need a separate tool for that
I *think* DTS to AC3 soundtrack conversion was added, perhaps in one of the earlier .15 betas.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:37 PM   #22
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I *think* DTS to AC3 soundtrack conversion was added, perhaps in one of the earlier .15 betas.
Incorrect. if its there then ritsuka isn't aware of it. Does have dts passhthru though to mp4 (.m4v). which I doubt any non hacked atv (including atv3) will support.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:38 PM   #23
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Incorrect. if its there then ritsuka isn't aware of it. Does have dts passhthru though to mp4 (.m4v). which I doubt any non hacked atv (including atv3) will support.
OK, I must be confusing something else I read about awhile ago. I can honestly say I've never really used subler for anything other than tagging, but know that its functionality has been expanded over time.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 01:44 PM   #24
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OK, I must be confusing something else I read about awhile ago. I can honestly say I've never really used subler for anything other than tagging, but know that its functionality has been expanded over time.
It will encode ac3 to aac if you want. but for a straight muxer to mp4 ... imo there is no competition. Its simply the best. And yes, it tags quite well too (via tmdb). Best mkv to mp4 remuxer made imo.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 03:34 PM   #25
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You guys are using way, way too much bitrate. You can encode a blu-ray 1080p at 2k avg with 2-pass and handbrake will do a fantastic job, scarcely distinguishable from the original. And for those of us streaming via wi-fi, this can make the difference between being able to watch a stutter-free movie and not.

Paradoxically, the Apple presets in HB are not the optimal settings to encode for playback on Apple devices. You don't even need to use a preset for the most part -- just click High Profile, verify that framerate is same as source, then select variable 2-pass, and then give it an average bitrate to work with (and these figures are generous because I like to have very clean, clear videos):

Any 4:3 live TV (Star Trek DVDs, Big Bang, that sort of thing): 768
4:3 TV from anime or other low-framerate (Dora, etc): 384
DVD 16:9, not a lot of action: 768
DVD 16:9, a lot of action or concert music video: 1000
720p, not a lot of action: 1000
720p, a lot of action: 1500
1080p, not a lot of action: 1500
1080p, a lot of action: 2000
Any HD concert music video: 2000

I don't know why the 768 and 384 at that precision work so well -- a guy who was better with video taught me that and showed that it's just some kind of sweet spot. I can throw on some pretty effects-heavy stuff from before the HD era, encoded at 768, and it looks like live TV.

When I see people saying, oh, give it 3000-4000 (or gasp, more) it's just like, wow, that much data is barely even in there. A blu-ray rip fresh off MakeMKV might be 18 GB but that doesn't mean your final file has to be. Don't ever use RF or average quality settings because it overbits by a huge margin. Best of luck.
Mike, welcome to the forums.

You do realize that there is a handbrake developer commenting within this very thread? Unless something has changed with the latest release of Handbrake (last few days), they've recommended not using 2-pass and average bit rate and instead just sliding the constant quality slider a few points one way or the other if one wants max quality vs. smaller file size. Why? https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/ConstantQuality and https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/AvgBitrateAndTargetSize

It's great if that method works for you and you're happy with it. You might try their suggestion though and see what that gets you. I've done it both ways myself and I like the Constant Quality output & file sizes better (all things considered). The big key is does one care more about file size or max picture quality. I'm in the latter camp.
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