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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:26 AM   #51
kas23
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Originally Posted by bidwalj View Post
I'm saying the same, I would gladly pay more for a retina.

I think the difference is only big for text. If you stream media or play games, you won't really see much of a difference. When you try to read small text, that's a different story.
I'm not big on just using my current iPad 2 for media. Videos would be perfectly fine on it, but I bought it primarily for reading text; PDFs and novels. However, since owning iPhones 4/4S/5, I find myself reach for my iPhone to read ePubs instead. The Retina Display is a lot easier on my eyes than my iPad 2. In fact, I find myself using my iPad 2 less and less, so don't think buying a shrunken down version of it would be a reasonable purchase.

You have to take current owner reviews with a grain of salt. They're more than likely trying to justify their purchase. It's human nature to have people want to make the same decision as they did. It's validating. If you want to really know what to do, go to the Apple store and try one out yourself and make your own decision.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:30 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by telefono View Post
You say the non retina display is not a huge problem then you say retina is not the greatest thing in the world ?

If retina isn't the greatest then how is your non retina screen not really a problem ?
Huh?
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:34 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by iSingandiDance View Post
Yes it could have been better. No complaining won't miraculously force Apple to install retina displays in future shipments.

Yes, Apple will introduce a new even sharper retina display for the next iPhone and iPad. No the Mini will not incorporate this newer, cutting edge display, but the then-older retina display we have now. Yes you will complain even though you finally have retina.
Interestingly, although there are definitely better processors out there and devices with better GPUs, I really don't see many people out there complaining of these shortcomings. By your logic, people should be complaining. There is usually a threshold of quality people expect products to meet. The display is clearly not reaching this threshold for a great deal of people (based on the level of complaint we are witnessing).
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:36 AM   #54
dannyo92
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I have an iPhone 4S and an iPad 2. I can sometimes see pixelation with the iPad 2, but overall I think the screen is fantastic, so I assume the iPad mini looks even better. Sure, the iPad 3 and 4 have better screens but they also cost more and are thicker and heavier.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:37 AM   #55
hugesaggyboobs
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Originally Posted by emaja View Post
I'm glad you can see through my eyes and judge what I can and cannot see. Thanks for that.

Seriously, people are making the screen out to be some crappy 8 bit green screen crap. It's a good display for what it is trying to be at the price point Apple wanted.

Don't like it? Return it already.

Sheesh!
How many people on these forums post the return it line. Why can you not accept criticism of Apple?

You realize just how many people are flooding this forum about it being a crap screen? Cult of Mac is spot on I agree. So there you go. There are others who think differently than you.

But this isn't a belief. These are facts. The Mini has a very, very low resolution screen in today 's world and the difference between it and other devices is apparent.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:38 AM   #56
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If it had retina display and faster chip now, what would they offer as an upgrade next year? They have the technology now but choose to wait.

I have an iPad 1 ATM so probably wouldn't notice the difference.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:39 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by LiarInGlass View Post
It's not retina, but retina is not the greatest thing in the world.
Ummm...I went three years LOVING the iphone 2g, 3g, 3gs

First second I unboxed the iphone 4, my iphone 3gs looked like some chinese knockoff

Retina is pretty slick!!
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:39 AM   #58
jaybar
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The issue may be more than the absence of Retina. The applications use the same rendering specifications as they do for the larger iPad models. Should they not adjust for which device you are running ?

In other words while a retina display might be sharper, it will not be optimized until IOS and the applications can variably adjust to the device.

Jay
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:40 AM   #59
hugesaggyboobs
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Originally Posted by dannyo92 View Post
I have an iPhone 4S and an iPad 2. I can sometimes see pixelation with the iPad 2, but overall I think the screen is fantastic, so I assume the iPad mini looks even better. Sure, the iPad 3 and 4 have better screens but they also cost more and are thicker and heavier.
The iPad Mini does not look better. And the reason is simple: everything is scaled down smaller. The pixel density isn't enough to improve the detail. In fact, it looks worse than the iPad 2 that I have.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:45 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by kas23 View Post
I'm not big on just using my current iPad 2 for media. Videos would be perfectly fine on it, but I bought it primarily for reading text; PDFs and novels. However, since owning iPhones 4/4S/5, I find myself reach for my iPhone to read ePubs instead. The Retina Display is a lot easier on my eyes than my iPad 2. In fact, I find myself using my iPad 2 less and less, so don't think buying a shrunken down version of it would be a reasonable purchase.

You have to take current owner reviews with a grain of salt. They're more than likely trying to justify their purchase. It's human nature to have people want to make the same decision as they did. It's validating. If you want to really know what to do, go to the Apple store and try one out yourself and make your own decision.

I actually picked one up and I also own an iPad 3. I like the form factor, portability but small text is an issue. I don't have the best eyesight so I can't really see all the pixels a normal person can but I definitely can see a difference. That's the only disappointment. Regardless I'm going to keep it / exchange for a lte model. I will use it on the go and as a hotspot for work. I'll use my iPad 3 in the house and will read on that.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by hugesaggyboobs View Post
The iPad Mini does not look better. And the reason is simple: everything is scaled down smaller. The pixel density isn't enough to improve the detail. In fact, it looks worse than the iPad 2 that I have.
Honestly I feel the same. For web pages that are text heavy, text is much more grainy unless you zoom in a bit.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:45 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by macbook123 View Post
You sir have poor eyesight. The resolution is simply bad.
Isn't the res 163 dpi? Thats more than the "magical" ipads 1 and 2. How is that "bad"?
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:54 AM   #62
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Here's a thought: Apple continues to offer the non-retina iPad 2, even though it is now 2 generations old. Why? Because a lot of people are still buying it. The non-retina iPhone 3GS was the same story.

The fact is that the average person doesn't know or necessarily care about a retina display, they just want an iPad/iPhone that's the right size and price point for them. So even though all of us notice it right away because we've already owned several retina display devices, most people will still be perfectly happy with the iPad mini's current screen.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:56 AM   #63
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To everyone who is sooo missing the Retina screen

I dare you to go to any store that sells iPads, where a 2 and a 4 (or 3) are right next to eachother, and tell me which one is which within 3 seconds.

You can't.

I really don't understand the hype about Retina, sure it's good, but it's not the next big thing.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 11:01 AM   #64
kas23
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Originally Posted by bidwalj View Post
I actually picked one up and I also own an iPad 3. I like the form factor, portability but small text is an issue. I don't have the best eyesight so I can't really see all the pixels a normal person can but I definitely can see a difference. That's the only disappointment. Regardless I'm going to keep it / exchange for a lte model. I will use it on the go and as a hotspot for work. I'll use my iPad 3 in the house and will read on that.
Without a doubt, the portability is awesome. Despite its form-factor, I never really found my iPad 2 to be that portable. I'm not one to pull out my iPad in public. Plus, I always thought it was cumbersome to read on it in bed. It's just too big. The mini fixes these shortcomings. I just never understood Jobs when he said a 7 inch tablet would be "DOA", but then again, Jobs was like the Bible, very contradictory in nature.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jord5i View Post
I dare you to go to any store that sells iPads, where a 2 and a 4 (or 3) are right next to eachother, and tell me which one is which within 3 seconds.

You can't.

I really don't understand the hype about Retina, sure it's good, but it's not the next big thing.
Is this the way you actually use your iPad? By glimpsing at it for 2-3 seconds from feet away?
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 11:04 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Jord5i View Post
To everyone who is sooo missing the Retina screen

I dare you to go to any store that sells iPads, where a 2 and a 4 (or 3) are right next to eachother, and tell me which one is which within 3 seconds.

You can't.

I really don't understand the hype about Retina, sure it's good, but it's not the next big thing.
I planned on using the mini for more than 3-second spurts. You know, like reading.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 11:14 AM   #66
Spungoflex
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Originally Posted by hugesaggyboobs View Post
But this isn't a belief. These are facts. The Mini has a very, very low resolution screen in today 's world and the difference between it and other devices is apparent.
That is actually not a fact. It's the opposite of a fact. It's completely false.

The ipad mini is a tablet, and in the small form-factor tablet market, the mini's screen is just fine. If it was 16:9, it would be 1280x800. It's 4:3, so it's 1024x768. Not a big deal at all.

If you compare it to a 10" tablet running retina resolution, yeah there is a difference. Compare it to what else is on the market and it's virtually the same.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jord5i View Post
To everyone who is sooo missing the Retina screen

I dare you to go to any store that sells iPads, where a 2 and a 4 (or 3) are right next to eachother, and tell me which one is which within 3 seconds.

You can't.
That's false. My eyesight is terrible, and I could tell the difference between the ipad 2 and the ipad 3 instantly.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 11:14 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by kas23 View Post
Interestingly, although there are definitely better processors out there and devices with better GPUs, I really don't see many people out there complaining of these shortcomings. By your logic, people should be complaining. There is usually a threshold of quality people expect products to meet. The display is clearly not reaching this threshold for a great deal of people (based on the level of complaint we are witnessing).
This is precisely because people are "use" to a retina display in other apple products.

Had the iPad Mini been released after the iPad 2, without the advent of the higher resolution screen, there would be nothing but praise for the device. And also cannibalization.

By offering a lower resolution screen with the Mini, and still offering the regular-sized iPad at its higher resolution, Apple can not only capitalize on their higher profit margins, but also avoid taking away sales from its other tablet, which frankly is too big for some.

Everyone complaining about the lack of a retina display on the Mini are spoiled by the retina display and Apple's tag line of "faster, thinner, greater". They would love to adopt the smaller, more efficient Mini which is indeed every inch an iPad. Just not the iPad 3/4.

Either there will be compromise or complaint. Apple will shrug all the way to the bank.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 11:19 AM   #68
kas23
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Originally Posted by iSingandiDance View Post
This is precisely because people are "use" to a retina display in other apple products.

Had the iPad Mini been released after the iPad 2, without the advent of the higher resolution screen, there would be nothing but praise for the device. And also cannibalization.

By offering a lower resolution screen with the Mini, and still offering the regular-sized iPad at its higher resolution, Apple can not only capitalize on their higher profit margins, but also avoid taking away sales from its other tablet, which frankly is too big for some.

Everyone complaining about the lack of a retina display on the Mini are spoiled by the retina display and Apple tag line of "faster, thinner, greater". They would love to adopt the smaller, more efficient Mini which is indeed every inch an iPad. Just not the iPad 4.

Either there will be compromise or complaint. Apple will shrug all the way to the bank.
No one doubts what you say. If the iPad mini came out at the same time as the original iPad 1, it definitely would have sold better than its larger counterpart. But, the truth is, we have been spoiled by the Retina Displays of other iDevices. There's no way around that. And it's hard going backwards.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 11:20 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by lianlua View Post
It's actually markedly underpriced for Apple. If they were maintaining their normal margins, it'd be $349+. It may or may not be overvalued for a lot of potential customers, though.

Pricing is relative to cost. Value is relative to what consumers are willing to pay.
You made me laugh, good point, you're quite right
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 11:31 AM   #70
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Stayed up till 5am last night using my wife's new Mini, watching videos on YouTube, browsing the web, watching videos on Netflix, and reading iBooks. At one point, around 2am, I thought to myself, "gosh, I guess if I hold it kinda close I can see the pixels, maybe I should get the iPad 4 instead." I picked my wife's iPad 3 back up to get a feel for the size again and used it for a little while. Then I picked the Mini back up and nearly shat at how much better it felt in my hands. After that, I was free of doubts.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 11:55 AM   #71
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It's funny how the sites that a person disagrees with always seem to be the ones that get paid off.
And just because a review criticizes a certain aspect of a product doesn't make it unbiased.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 12:02 PM   #72
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I don't think you quite understand. It's not as easy as simply "return it" and be done. We WANT a form factor like this without sacrificing anything we are already used to. Cult of Mac is spot on: it's frustrating. The difference in reading is night and day on a Mini and an iPad 3, unfortunately.

I feel that the Mini is definitely over-priced, despite what Apple deems to be acceptable margins, for the quality received. Honestly, I don't feel a $130 better build quality than the competition. It's thin, light, and feels cheaper than any other iPad built to date. The screen issue doesn't help. Apple just can't put retina in all of their devices and expect people not to notice when they go back in time and still charge way more than the competition. I mean, sure, they CAN, but they shouldn't.
NO. It is EXACTLY that easy. If someone sells a product that does not meet your expectations at a price that is too high for you to justify - the you don't buy it or return it if you have already done so.

I am not saying that you have to like the mini. If it doesn't meet your needs or expectations - fine. Apple missed the mark in your opinion. However, for people to come on MR and tell everyone that if you like it you are a blind fanboy and aren't being objective is wrong.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 12:06 PM   #73
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Oh look, another pointless post about someone saying the display is a huge problem when it's really not. I've played with mine for maybe two hours or so, and I don't even notice it. The display is good. It's not retina, but retina is not the greatest thing in the world. It's an awesome device.
X2 aged with it for 8hrs yesterday then when I charged it i jumped on my iPhone 5 honestly screen is good cant complain.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 12:07 PM   #74
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Every device Apple sells with retina is touted by Apple themselves as having retina. It's a major selling point. Even Apple themselves cop to this- yet the sheep will try to convince themselves the screen is fine.

The mini is an excellent demo of what's to come.
Smart money will wait for the final version.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 12:15 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by sno1man View Post
If you think that review is unbiased, you must believe Fox News or MSNBC are "fair and balanced" too

Regardless of where you stand on the screen issue, using that review to make your case is weak to say the least.

The review is amateur hour in the extreme. He contradicts himself all over the place. Just try to logically parse the "update" paragraph. Is it faster, slow, the same speed? He implies all three

Also as he tries to make the point over and over again about text quality, the examples he uses have the "superior" text of the 3 at significantly bigger sizes. That alone will make it look sharper (just like the louder headphones in a a-b comparison tend to "sound better"

Last but not least, there is NO WAY to completely accurately assess the quality of a display (including a retina) by viewing screen grabs/shots on the web. The simple reason is that the device you are using/viewing it on is going to have far more impact on the view than most realize.

Short example from the folks that sell TVs- They tend to turn the contrast higher on the models they want to push. The higher contrast makes the display look sharper at first glance.

I bought one for my daughter and after playing with it quite a bit i was very impressed with it (especially the size and weight and hand friendliness). The screen resolution is fine for the size though retina would have made it fantastic.

In other words the mini-hd next year will be solid upgrade, but doesn't mean the present iteration is a failure
I like the review, whether you like it or not.
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