Mitt Romney ranting about the 2nd coming of Christ.

[Coleman2010]

Originally Posted by Rt&Dzine

Hmmm . . .

Apparently he doesn't believe he is. Hence the qualifier and quotes.

[topgunn]

Why is it that when Republicans didn't vote for John Kerry it was because they were Republicans but when they didn't vote for Obama it is because they are racist?

[AP_piano295]

Originally Posted by topgunn

Why is it that when Republicans didn't vote for John Kerry it was because they were Republicans but when they didn't vote for Obama it is because they are racist?

Just because the end result is the same doesn't mean the reasoning is the same.

Claiming that Obama is a Kenyan, Muslim, not and American stems from racism. No other presidential candidate in history has ever been accused of such absurd BS.

Republicans would have voted against Obama regardless of his skin color, that doesn't mean their hatred of him doesn't stem from racism.

EDIT : http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/dont2012.jpg (case and point)

[Andeavor]

Originally Posted by topgunn

Why is it that when Republicans didn't vote for John Kerry it was because they were Republicans but when they didn't vote for Obama it is because they are racist?

It wasn't the 'not-voting' but the whole spiel about Obama not being a 'real' American, and calling him a socialist or commie, and the fact they put this whole idea of him destroying the "good old America", which translated means the "white, elitist America", into the heads of the still undecided masses.

[topgunn]

Originally Posted by AP_piano295

Just because the end result is the same doesn't mean the reasoning is the same.

Claiming that Obama is a Kenyan, Muslim, not and American stems from racism. No other presidential candidate in history has ever been accused of such absurd BS.

Republicans would have voted against Obama regardless of his skin color, that doesn't mean their hatred of him doesn't stem from racism.

EDIT : http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/dont2012.jpg (case and point)

I am ashamed for the person who would vote against someone because of the color of their skin. I am just as ashamed for someone who would vote for someone for the color of their skin. I would guess the latter was more common in the last two elections.

[skottichan]

Originally Posted by topgunn

I am ashamed for the person who would vote against someone because of the color of their skin. I am just as ashamed for someone who would vote for someone for the color of their skin. I would guess the latter was more common in the last two elections.

Yes, because I voted for President Obama because of his skin color, not the fact that he respecting and protecting my rights as a woman and a lesbian.

[Mac'nCheese]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Ice

I have a question! What conservative is placing you in church every Sunday and forcing you to read scripture? You must not be listing to Mr. Obama as he says, "We are a free Nation to practice whatever religion we want." So why do you complain? I go to church on my own free will. I believe in Jesus Christ because I choose too. NEVER have I been forced by the government to attend church. NEVER.

I have a question too. What liberal ever said that any conservative was doing that? What liberal ever said you were forced to attend church? Ok, two questions.

[rdowns]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Ice

I have a question! What conservative is placing you in church every Sunday and forcing you to read scripture? You must not be listing to Mr. Obama as he says, "We are a free Nation to practice whatever religion we want." So why do you complain? I go to church on my own free will. I believe in Jesus Christ because I choose too. NEVER have I been forced by the government to attend church. NEVER.

I have a question. Why are your posts so intellectually dishonest? No one has ever said you aren't free to practice whatever religion you want. The problem becomes when you want to take your religious beliefs and legislate them on others. But you knew that.

[Coleman2010]

Originally Posted by topgunn

I am ashamed for the person who would vote against someone because of the color of their skin. I am just as ashamed for someone who would vote for someone for the color of their skin. I would guess the latter was more common in the last two elections.

You would guest wrong. African Americans have voted in block for Democrats in how many elections? 80-90% for Clinton, Kerry, Gore. How far back to you want me to go? We vote Democrat because Republicans hostile policies turn us off.

[topgunn]

Originally Posted by Coleman2010

You would guest wrong. African Americans have voted in block for Democrats in how many elections? 80-90% for Clinton, Kerry, Gore. How far back to you want me to go? We vote Democrat because Republicans hostile policies turn us off.

I have no doubt that most African Americans have voted Democrat for most of my life. What we saw in 2008 and 2012 was a huge surge in voter turnout among blacks; an increase of 8% among black people ages 18-24 and 5% among 25-44. That is HUGE. Do you believe that this increase is due to an intense dislike of McCain's policies or possibly because Kerry didn't inspire black democrats to get out and vote? I would speculate that much of the surge in voter turn-out among African Americans was due to the fact that they could now vote for a black man.

[Coleman2010]

Originally Posted by topgunn

I have no doubt that most African Americans have voted Democrat for most of my life. What we saw in 2008 and 2012 was a huge surge in voter turnout among blacks; an increase of 8% among black people ages 18-24 and 5% among 25-44. That is HUGE. Do you believe that this increase is due to an intense dislike of McCain's policies or possibly because Kerry didn't inspire black democrats to get out and vote? I would speculate that much of the surge in voter turn-out among African Americans was due to the fact that they could now vote for a black man.

Again you guess and speculate. It's called ground game. Obama For America volunteers going places other Democratic campaigns did not go before. Setting up voter registration drives in African American barer shops, beauty salons and Churches. Going into African American neighborhoods and engaging voters face to face.

Barber Shop & Beauty Salon Program
Beauty salons and barbershops are where communities come together, and barbers and beauticians have an important role to play in raising awareness of the President’s accomplishments and helping supporters get involved with the campaign.

Black Business Captains
Business leaders are coming together to create a larger program of empowerment and engagement for the African-American community. Black Business Captains will take the lead on educating local business leaders about the importance of business owners getting involved in the President’s re-election campaign.

Civic/Cultural Organization Captains
Civic/Cultural Organization Captains and nonprofit leaders help connect their organization's members with volunteer opportunities on the campaign. Captains support volunteers with voter registration and recruitment efforts, and help engage other key leaders in their personal networks.

Congregation Captains
Congregation Captains take the lead on educating members of their religious organization about how and why to get involved in the campaign. Captains recruit volunteers, organize house gatherings and activities, and help with voter registration drives.


This wasn't done in previous campaigns. The same was out reach was done in Latino communities. Do you think the Latino vote increased because they could vote for a Black man? How about the increased turn out in Asian Americans, younger voters and White single women. Do you guess it's because he's Black?

----------

It is was "just a Black thing" why aren't we voting for Allen West or Herman Cain.

[Ugg]

Originally Posted by topgunn

I have no doubt that most African Americans have voted Democrat for most of my life. What we saw in 2008 and 2012 was a huge surge in voter turnout among blacks; an increase of 8% among black people ages 18-24 and 5% among 25-44. That is HUGE. Do you believe that this increase is due to an intense dislike of McCain's policies or possibly because Kerry didn't inspire black democrats to get out and vote? I would speculate that much of the surge in voter turn-out among African Americans was due to the fact that they could now vote for a black man.

And you'd be right. Given the history of the US and you should know this as you live in a state that has been and still is hostile to black Americans, it's no surprise at all that blacks would support one of their own. I wonder what the percentage of mormons who voted for Romney was? I'll bet that it was equal if not greater than the percentage of blacks who voted for Romney. Mormons have never been discriminated against either. How many catholics voted for JFK?

It's not in the least bit surprising that we vote for one of our own. What's shocking is the amount of racism evident in your post and the amount of ignorance when it comes to people who vote strictly based on religion.

[topgunn]

Originally Posted by Ugg

Mormons have never been discriminated against either.

Is this sarcasm? You do know why they ended up in the middle of nowhere Utah and why Romney's dad was born in Mexico, right?

Originally Posted by Ugg

What's shocking is the amount of racism evident in your post and the amount of ignorance when it comes to people who vote strictly based on religion.

Please enlighten me as to my racist ways.

Regardless, you said the same thing I did. Many Americans have a desire to vote for one of their own. 2008 was the first opportunity for African Americans to do so and the did. You agreed with me and called me a racist all at the same time.

[bradl]

Originally Posted by topgunn

Is this sarcasm? You do know why they ended up in the middle of nowhere Utah and why Romney's dad was born in Mexico, right?


Please enlighten me as to my racist ways.

Regardless, you said the same thing I did. Many Americans have a desire to vote for one of their own. 2008 was the first opportunity for African Americans to do so and the did. You agreed with me and called me a racist all at the same time.

By this logic, every white male between 1798 and 2008 have had a desire to vote for their own, and have done so.

So.. 310 years to 4... hmmmmmmm......

BL.

[Ugg]

Originally Posted by topgunn

Is this sarcasm? You do know why they ended up in the middle of nowhere Utah and why Romney's dad was born in Mexico, right?


Please enlighten me as to my racist ways.

Regardless, you said the same thing I did. Many Americans have a desire to vote for one of their own. 2008 was the first opportunity for African Americans to do so and the did. You agreed with me and called me a racist all at the same time.

Umm, because they were practicing a non-christian, polygamous religion in Missouri and because they bought up so much land, they were seen as a threat to the local way of life. Mormons fled en masse to Mexico and Canada because they felt polygamy was more important than American citizenship. After they fled Mexico, where their ways were viewed in the same way as in Missouri, they lived in El Paso from government handouts. Is your interpretation different?

Yes, you basically said the same thing I did, however you chose to ignore Romney and Kennedy's enormous religious base. You made it solely about skin color. That's what racism is all about.

[Coleman2010]

Originally Posted by topgunn

Many Americans have a desire to vote for one of their own. 2008 was the first opportunity for African Americans to do so and the did. You agreed with me and called me a racist all at the same time.

I see you're ignoring my reply. I give you evidence to disprove your assumptions yet you continue to tell me what's in my head and why I voted for President Obama.

[topgunn]

Originally Posted by Ugg

Yes, you basically said the same thing I did, however you chose to ignore Romney and Kennedy's enormous religious base. You made it solely about skin color. That's what racism is all about.

You can see what you choose to.

[quasinormal]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Ice

I believe in the Rapture. Does that make me a nut? Who cares.

Since you asked. Definitely. In fact, I find the whole Pentecostal/charismatic/prosperity doctrine wacky to the point of offensiveness.

To suggest that the money rich are destined to heaven and the poor to hell is a perversion of the gospels.

[Coleman2010]

Originally Posted by topgunn

You can see what you choose to.

And you can choose not to see what's posted before your eyes.

Regarding Ohio voter suppression laws:

Analysts, voters and politicians said that a series of episodes here in Ohio -- where exit polls showed black voters accounting for 15 percent of Tuesday's electorate, up from 11 percent in 2008 -- were seen by African Americans as efforts to keep them from voting, stirring a profound backlash on Election Day.

"That was a strong motivator because we know we got here through blood, sweat and tears," said state Sen. Nina Turner, D-Cleveland...

Decisions to limit early voting to weekdays also stirred ire, as did a widely reported comment by Doug Preisse, chairman of the Republican Party in Franklin County, who said in an e-mail to the Columbus Dispatch, "I guess I really actually feel we shouldn't contort the voting process to accommodate the urban -- read African-American -- voter-turnout machine."

When the Obama campaign successfully sued to open polls on the final weekend of the early-voting period, black voters thronged many polling stations.

[bradl]

Originally Posted by bradl

By this logic, every white male between 1798 and 2008 has had a desire to vote for their own, and have done so.

So.. 310 years to 4... hmmmmmmm......

BL.

Let me add a bit more to this..

Following your logic, this also means that since 1870, Blacks would have had the desire to vote for one of their own, and had not done so until 1988, in their first failed attempt of a presidential candidate that was one of their own.

This also means that for a period of 138 years total, Blacks have not had the real chance to vote for one of their own, making their vote one of the most non-racial votes in the history of this country.

So 310 years vs. 4, 310 years vs. 118, and 310 years vs. -138. I *really* wonder who has had this 'desire' more...

BL.

[topgunn]

Originally Posted by Coleman2010

And you can choose not to see what's posted before your eyes.

Regarding Ohio voter suppression laws:

I see that perfectly fine and have no disagreement with it. I thought you made a good point about the increase in not only black voters but also Asian and Hispanic voters and how the Obama campaign reached out to them in new ways.

My only point was that some voters went to the poll and voted for Obama because he was black just as I am sure that some people voted against him for the same reason. I speculated it would be a fair number. You disagreed. I will leave it at that.

Originally Posted by bradl

Let me add a bit more to this..

You are really sticking to this 310 years thing. At first I thought it was a typo. I guess not.

[Coleman2010]

Originally Posted by topgunn

I see that perfectly fine and have no disagreement with it. I thought you made a good point about the increase in not only black voters but also Asian and Hispanic voters and how the Obama campaign reached out to them in new ways.

My only point was that some voters went to the poll and voted for Obama because he was black just as I am sure that some people voted against him for the same reason. I speculated it would be a fair number. You disagreed. I will leave it at that.

Are you African American? I find it insulting you telling me why I voted for the President. It's like me saying White people voted for Romney because he is White. Pretty ignorant huh?

[topgunn]

Originally Posted by Coleman2010

Are you African American? I find it insulting you telling me why I voted for the President. It's like me saying White people voted for Romney because he is White. Pretty ignorant huh?

I am sorry if I offended you. It was not my intent.

[bradl]

Originally Posted by topgunn

You are really sticking to this 310 years thing. At first I thought it was a typo. I guess not.

Yes. the first election in the US was for the 2nd President of the United States, in 1797. See, George Washington was not elected to POTUS, as the US didn't exist until the Constitution was ratified in 1797. After that election, Adams won and became the 2nd POTUS. So that election occurred in 1787.

Actually, you're right. My math is off in two places. Washington was named 1st President via unanimous vote of the EC in 1787. His second term would have been through 1797. So it should be from 1787.

So 221 years vs. 4, 221 years vs. 118, and 221 years vs. -138

221 since the Constitution was ratified. (1787)
4 since Obama took office. (2008)
118 since the 15th Amendment was ratified, giving Blacks the right to vote, and when Jesse Jackson ran for president in 1988, and that was only as far as the Democratic primaries. (15th was ratified in 1870).

138 years since the 15th Amendment was ratified, and Obama ran for POTUS and succeeded. That same 138 years is the amount of time that Blacks have had to vote, and up until 2008, had the most non-racial votes in the history of this country.

BL.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by topgunn

I would speculate that much of the surge in voter turn-out among African Americans was due to the fact that they could now vote for a black man.

I don't doubt that. But I don't fault them for it either.

You're just so used to the long string of white males who've been president that you overlook the power of finally having one of your "own" break through.

The next woman candidate will draw more women.

The next latino candidate will draw more latinos.

The next Asian president will draw more Asians.

Is that really a big surprise?