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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:17 PM   #51
Ryansiegel
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Being capable is one thing, putting out a groundbreaking product is another, and Apple has seemingly missed the mark on the Mini out of extreme haste. To those of you who say, "people won't know the difference" are the reason why Apple believes they are invincible in this market, and it's simply not the case. Every empire falls, and if Apple doesn't play their cards right, they will be on the outside looking in on this particular market. The Steve Jobs mentality that I believe has been lost is "If we can't do it right, and do it better, then we don't do it at all." This is not the case with the Mini.

As a loyal Apple user for over 10 years now, lately I feel as if they are mistaking our loyalty for foolishness. I really don't appreciate that. But then again, we as long-time users may not be their target demographic anymore, and I don't expect Apple or any company to aim to please a niche market all the time, because it's just not cost effective. As long as they keep on the forefront of the best computer hardware and OS platform (which so far they have not let me down) then I'll be loyal. Because there's no chance I'll ever go back to a PC. Ever.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:17 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValSalva View Post
I sure hope the iPad Mini 2 is retina next year. It could take an extra generation and be 2014 before it's retina. It's all down to costs and battery technology.
I don't believe that (those are definitely factors, just not the only ones) - the biggest problem facing them right now is limiting the fragmentation. Apple has backed themselves into two resolutions for the iPad line (1024x768 and 2048x1536) as to keep everything easy for developers. All it would take to make the iPad mini retina is a screen with the resolution in between those two (1536x1152) - surely not as expensive as the big brother's screen. The problem would then be scaling apps to fit. It'll happen eventually, but really only so they can give developers time to adapt. Because, despite the less-than-stellar screen, the iPad mini still has 275,000+ tablet specific apps that work without any scaling or adjustment - a HUGE selling point vs. Android (and the reason I sold my N7 and will be getting a mini).

Going to 2048x1536 would give the mini the same ppi as the iPhone 5 - and as a tablet would be overkill. For tablets, Apple has established the ~ 245 ppi sweet spot (seen in the iPad 3 and 4) - so they can either wait until the price of the 2048x1536 displays drops enough to fit them into the mini (giving the mini more ppi than it needs and leading to battery life issues and the need for a beefier processor than could fit in mini's small form factor) OR go with the 1536x1152 and tell developers to suck it up.

I think the current mini is perfectly reasonable and represents a great first gen offering. People get caught up in the spec wars and the "It only costs $198 to make, why is Apple so greedy!?!?" nonsense - but you forget, you're buying the Apple name and all that entails: superior build quality, ecosystem/connectivity with your other Apple devices, Apple's awesome customer service, and Apple's second-to-none app store.

It really is a case of "You get what you pay for," because if you pay for a cheap Android tablet, you get the cheap feeling scaled up phone app experience.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:18 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Jobs was the guy the divulged that the iPad was actually designed "before" the iPhone yet the iPhone/iPod Touch was the device that they could deliver first.

Apple has plenty of mockups and all they need to do is green light the products they think have market success so in a way one could see the success of the Kindle, Samsung and Google 7" tablets as the event needed to green light the smaller tablet but i'm betting that it was already in the labs in prototype form.
Yes it was, and did you see the original prototype? It was huge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Classic misdirection by Jobs. Still cannot believe people took that bait. Had they learned nothing from the man that panned flash based MPS players until the shuffle came or proclaimed video on an iPod to be inessential until the next year with a video iPod.

Apple is not reactionary and especially when it comes to 2nd rate vendors like Amazon and Google.
You have no proof of this, its pure speculation, Steve thought a 7 inch wouldn't work, he was proven wrong by competitors so Apple brought out a 7 inch iPad.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:19 PM   #54
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As long as we're talking about color gamuts... Can I just say that I got a replacement iPhone5 with a radically different color gamut than the one it was replacing. I decided to keep the old phone with cosmetic damage because the new phone looked as desaturated as an iPhone4 at all brightness levels. I would suggest comparing your home screen icons to a friend's iPhone 5 cause I think there are two very different suppliers of the screen. Though hopefully it was just a bad batch.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:19 PM   #55
Neuro
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The truth about iPad Mini:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQlXGHr0vMg
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:19 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post
3 million is the iPad Mini + iPad 4th gen.
Exactly!
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:21 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryansiegel View Post

As a loyal Apple user for over 10 years now, lately I feel as if they are mistaking our loyalty for foolishness. I really don't appreciate that. But then again, we as long-time users may not be their target demographic anymore, and I don't expect Apple or any company to aim to please a niche market all the time, because it's just not cost effective. As long as they keep on the forefront of the best computer hardware and OS platform (which so far they have not let me down) then I'll be loyal. Because there's no chance I'll ever go back to a PC. Ever.
Fear not. Apple missed the mark in display quality only. If only they had the luxury of shipping such low units like Amazon or Google they'd then be able to deliver fancier product but it's lonely on top and they need to be able to ship millions of product on launch day in the US as well as ship million overseas.

"1...is the loneliest number"
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:22 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr McKay View Post
Tablets existed for years and years before the iPad. Even without the iPad it was inevitable Android would make the jump to tablet.
But that isn't really a valid point... because then there is no difference in saying that Apple would inevitably make the jump to having a smaller iPad available if it werent for the Kindle Fire and Nexus 7...

Even though tablets existed before the iPad, it is still the reason the tablet market is what it is today.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:22 PM   #59
Scarpad
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I tell you this raging about the screen. Either the device does what yo u want it to do or it doesn't , for me it fills a niche for a smaller lighter device in the IOS ecosytem, period end of story. I also own a Nexus 7 that does the same thing in the Android Ecosystem. I know there will most likely be an update to the device in a year, and if it warrants it, I'll sell this one and upgrade, if not I'll keep what I have.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:22 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuro View Post
LOL.

use the [youtube] tag next time. This is funny.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:23 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
If only they had the luxury of shipping such low units like Amazon or Google they'd then be able to deliver fancier product but it's lonely on top and they need to be able to ship millions of product on launch day in the US as well as ship million overseas.
that makes absolutely zero sense.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:24 PM   #62
mac4good84
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Ipad Mini

Yeah I went to the store to check out a mini display model. Holding it and using it, hardware wise, is pretty damn impressive. It's very slick and should find a place for most people. However, the internals are dissapointing to say the least. Is it so horrible it can't be used? No. But I saw the quality of the display in comparison and I would still rather use the larger retina display ipad than settle for the mini at this point.

When this has a retina display and A6 processor at the minimum in a year or two, this things will be a beast to say the least
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:24 PM   #63
GorgonPhone
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its a crappy screen and i dont see how apple dared to put old tech like that on a new device .. the old ipod touch 4G looks better dammit
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:24 PM   #64
carmenodie
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I was playing with a mini this weekend and the screen is awesome. Screw this comparison. The iPad mini is phenomenal! The build quality, the screen resolution etc.
I'm getting one period.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:25 PM   #65
nuckinfutz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr McKay View Post
Y


You have no proof of this, its pure speculation, Steve thought a 7 inch wouldn't work, he was proven wrong by competitors so Apple brought out a 7 inch iPad.
As opposed to the past where Steve thought Flash or Video on iPods was not important things? It's pure speculation that Apple was motivated to deliver a smaller iPad because the Kindle/N7

No one will no unless an Apple document leaks the truth.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:25 PM   #66
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I am really picky when it comes to picture quality from working in Home Theater at Best Buy for 4 years during college, and I thought the iPad Mini display looked great. I am happy with my iPad 2, and it looked better than that because its smaller.

If you aren't comparing them side by side, it doesn't really make a huge difference... Except maybe for those people who primarily use it as an eReader.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:25 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
It really is a case of "You get what you pay for," because if you pay for a cheap Android tablet, you get the cheap feeling scaled up phone app experience.
I've used a Nexus 7 every day for months. I've never once experienced a "scaled up phone app experience." No, wait, as I've mentioned elsewhere, there's a single Disney World travel times app that's phone-ish. That's it.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:25 PM   #68
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Replacement iphone 5 on left and original 5 on the right. Couldn't bring the colors back on the left at any brightness. The original 5 on the right matched my color calibrated monitors and prints of the photo.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:26 PM   #69
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Despite what the screen may lack, it is still a better built product than all of the competition out there and iOS combined with the app store are still a much smoother experience than I have seen with any Android OS version and Google Play.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:26 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by latestmonkey View Post
that makes absolutely zero sense.
It's easier to buy/use higher end components if you don't require them in batches by the millions.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:26 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Want300 View Post
Except maybe for those people who primarily use it as an eReader.
And even then, the resolution is as good as or better than any ebook reader out there until recently (well, the Kindle DX might be an exception for the three people who bought one).
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:27 PM   #72
Szarky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryansiegel View Post
Being capable is one thing, putting out a groundbreaking product is another, and Apple has seemingly missed the mark on the Mini out of extreme haste. To those of you who say, "people won't know the difference" are the reason why Apple believes they are invincible in this market, and it's simply not the case. Every empire falls, and if Apple doesn't play their cards right, they will be on the outside looking in on this particular market. The Steve Jobs mentality that I believe has been lost is "If we can't do it right, and do it better, then we don't do it at all." This is not the case with the Mini.

As a loyal Apple user for over 10 years now, lately I feel as if they are mistaking our loyalty for foolishness. I really don't appreciate that. But then again, we as long-time users may not be their target demographic anymore, and I don't expect Apple or any company to aim to please a niche market all the time, because it's just not cost effective. As long as they keep on the forefront of the best computer hardware and OS platform (which so far they have not let me down) then I'll be loyal. Because there's no chance I'll ever go back to a PC. Ever.
Man I am so sick of hearing this kind of stuff. You're entitled to your opinion on this public forum but I really wish people would stop having such strong opinions on a device that doesn't fit THEIR expectations. Sorry, Apple can't make everyone happy ALL the time.

For me with an iPad 2, I thought for sure I wouldn't consider a Mini. The girlfriend got one and after using it a few times I absolutely LOVE the size mainly because of how great it feels in your hands and how light it is. I didn't get the iPad 3 because it got thicker and heavier. Before holding a Mini I didn't notice my iPad 2 being that heavy, after playing around with a Mini every time I pick up my iPad 2 now I think of how much I'd rather be holding the Mini. With all that said, I'm still split on if I'll get a Mini but definitely won't consider the iPad 4 as only now do I find the size and weight just not worth it. Same goes for iPhone that my sister got. After holding that you really appreciate the difference to the 4 and 4S.

It doesn't help either knowing I can sell my iPad 2 on craigslist and actually come out with a small profit switching to the Mini (iPad 2 was 32 GB though, I'd get the 16GB Mini).
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:27 PM   #73
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Ipod touch

Yeah, I realize one benefit in that the touch is still more portable to carry around (going exercising, etc). But still, I can't get over that for $299 you can get the most current ipod touch that has a better display, better processor; it's just flat out amongst the most current products they offer. You pay $30 more for the mini and yet take a pretty big leap backwards.....mindboggling.....
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:28 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
It's easier to buy/use higher end components if you don't require them in batches by the millions.
The opposite is true.

Regardless, Apple sells more tablets than their competitors, so what is your point?
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:28 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by WhoDaKat View Post
Most people aren't going to notice the difference. Those with retina screens at home will probably see it going back and forth, but on its own its hardly that noticeable.

That being said, we'd better get used to it, because I don't think the mini is going to get a retina upgrade at least not in the next product cycle and maybe even further out. The whole reason Apple bit the bullet and used this screen is to keep the resolutions from fragmentizing the line. The only way Apple could make the iPad mini a retina screen is by doubling its current resolution to the res of the new iPads. But as its a smaller screen, they would end up putting a better screen in their cheapest iPad, and thats not going to happen. And its not just a matter of the screen. A retina screen with that kind of resolution is going to need the latest processor, so Apple would be selling a form factor that many people prefer to the new iPad (size wise), with a better screen and the latest processor for $329 when the full size with the same specs and a slightly worse screen goes for $499. Talk about cannibalization! I think the non-retina screen helps sell the device cheaper and differentiates it from its big brothers.

No one is going to have a problem with the current screen except for pixel counters and fandroids that need something to latch on to. How about an article on how if Apple does something, the world rushes out to critique it and a million bloggers jump all over it for how terrible it is, when the competition is producing crappy device after crappy device. Can we critique them for a while?
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Originally Posted by gott2go View Post
um, you folks need to get over yourselves. I bought one this weekend as i needed to replace my 2nd gen ipod. As someone who doesn't have an iphone (gasp), it's a great way to take advantage of the iOS world. When you hold it at a proper distance and you aren't looking at a retina screen directly next to it, it provides a great experience in a nice, extremely light size.
Well said. I played with one over the weekend in a big box store and the screen looked great. I didn't even notice pixels. Text looked great. I was actually quite pleased and it sealed the fact that I would like to get one.

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Originally Posted by jsw View Post
It's funny how sales figures imply excellent products when it comes to Apple, and yet never did when it came to, say, Windows PCs, or now with Android devices.

Either sales figures are an important indicator of quality or they're not. They can't only matter when Apple is winning.
Apple reports the number of items SOLD, the others report the number that were shipped. Just because they shipped doesn't mean they have sold.

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Originally Posted by Dr McKay View Post
Do you have any proof for that? Until this was leaked Steve Jobs was declaring that a 7 inch Tablet would not work, that it had to be at least 9.7 inches. Steve slammed the 7 inch, as for "long before the Fire" are you suggesting that Apple had a 7 inch model planned right after the original iPad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Jobs was the guy the divulged that the iPad was actually designed "before" the iPhone yet the iPhone/iPod Touch was the device that they could deliver first.

Apple has plenty of mockups and all they need to do is green light the products they think have market success so in a way one could see the success of the Kindle, Samsung and Google 7" tablets as the event needed to green light the smaller tablet but i'm betting that it was already in the labs in prototype form.
Exactly. They experimented with a ton of sizes before settling on 9.7 for the default size. Now that they have a couple of years of user experiences they could revisit the next best size and release another. Plus Jobs had a history of publicly denouncing an idea that Apple was working on behind the scenes( iPod with video for example ).
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