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Old Nov 6, 2012, 03:00 AM   #126
mrxak
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You can ship 'em, but can you sell 'em?

I don't hear too many stories about anything made by Samsung selling out in hours. Apple sells what they ship, and mostly ships only what they've already sold. Go to a brick and mortar store and see boxes and boxes of Samsung tablets lined up.

All this came out in the trial. Samsung is leaving loads of product on shelves.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 03:03 AM   #127
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samcraig; But Apple doesn't report sold either.

Apple always reports sold.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 04:15 AM   #128
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i dont care about sales numbers. i care about quality!!!!
i bought asus transformer prime(tf201 i think) before. had couple of issues with the new android(ics) so i decided to go with ipad 3rd gen instead.(ipad3 came out a month after i bought asus tp)
is ipad greater than android tablets? sort of. i own all of the ipads except 4th one. and im planning to move over to android tablets once ipad3 become unusably slow.
the reason? its simple. its not as fast as other tablets. indeed ipads can be better at graphics. but not with streaming videos over-the-air. its kinda surprising since playing video is a part of graphics.
i get 720p avi file-format movie downloaded on my NAS drive. streamed both ipad 3rd and asus tp at the same time. asus tp never flinched a single time even with time skipping. ipad 3rd? gets out of sync after few second. no matter which apps i use from appstore, they couldnt handle it. with asus tp? i was able to stream with a STOCK APP. yes, a stock app. i didnt even have to buy/download/configure anything. it had what i needed for most of things. and way more useful out of the box compare to ipads. so yeah. im not saying ipads are bad. they are ok tablet. but not that superior to others. the only reason for me kept going with ipads was becuz i have iphones. but even with iphones failing this much, i can already see myself holding galaxy note 3
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 04:23 AM   #129
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It's inevitable that Android tablets will make huge inroads into the iPads dominance of the market. It is following exactly the same pattern as the phone market and how has that worked out?

Android has matured as both a tablet and phone operating system, and despite the claims to the contrary by many here, they are damn good tablets backed by an excellent marketplace in the Play Store.

Apple has woken up to the threat with the release of the Mini, although I'm not sure if the price-point will help stem the Android flow. It's about time a few people that frequent these boards woke up to it too, living in denial doesn't make a problem go away.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 04:34 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
I have yet to see numerous Android tablets in the wild. I have seen a few but not many. I sort of doubt that the shipment numbers will translate directly into sales for Samsung.
It's exactly the same for Apple even if they are stating that the provided numbers are actual sales numbers (also to retailers...??). A few days ago I needed some (household) electronic equipment and went to some (Dutch) Media Markt stores (http://www.mediamarkt.com/) I've seen pallets full of Samsung/Sony/Asus tablets but also big metal baskets with hundreds and hundreds of iPads and dozens of iPads mini.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 05:33 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by emulajavi View Post
Hi. I think there is an error in the article!!- market share is what has declined from 59% to 50% - but shipments were 11 million in 2011 and 14 million this year. Thank you!
No, that is quite possibly correct. Just because you sell 3 million more units than last year, doesn't mean that your market share will go up; that depends on what YOU sell vs what the OTHERS are selling.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 06:42 AM   #132
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I'd love to know where all these other tablets are being sold. I was just on a flight to San Diego and I saw a number of people using tablets in the airport and on the plane and they were all iPads.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 06:54 AM   #133
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I'd love to know where all these other tablets are being sold. I was just on a flight to San Diego and I saw a number of people using tablets in the airport and on the plane and they were all iPads.
Hate to break it to you old bean, but the World does note revolve around the USA and as for your assertion about where all these tablets are, consider the fact that nearly half of the World's population is found in Asia and that some of the richest nations in the world are also in Asia - you see more Samsung devices now on the MTR in Hong Kong than Apple - so, many of the tablet sales may be in Asia and Lenovo is a Chinese company, hence its has the table market in China which is quite small.

Fact is, most people globally can never afford a Apple device, however, they can afford Android devices.

When the USA goes tits up, have a guess what, the outlook for Apple will not be too bright.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:05 AM   #134
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IDC has to lie about the figures or they'd just be reporting on Apple. Creating the impression there's competition, keeps IDC in a job.

I'm sure Samsung and the others have found some way to reward IDC for their flexibility.

The web usage stats don't lie. It's all Apple. IDC figures are imaginary, at best. Apple gives actual sales figures. No other company dares give actual sales.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:09 AM   #135
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Penetration ?
People prefer gently rounded corners!!!
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:13 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by albusseverus View Post
IDC has to lie about the figures or they'd just be reporting on Apple. Creating the impression there's competition, keeps IDC in a job.

I'm sure Samsung and the others have found some way to reward IDC for their flexibility.

The web usage stats don't lie. It's all Apple. IDC figures are imaginary, at best. Apple gives actual sales figures. No other company dares give actual sales.
I really doubt this.

But, this is all about shipments and not sell-through. A big difference. However, I imagine the other tablets are making some progress. They are finally offering competitive products and for Droid phone users, it would be a natural to have a droid based tablet. Just makes sense.

The problem these other tablets have, other than the Kindle which appeals to the reading crowd, is they are fighting against 100's of millions happy iPhone customers which the same holds true... an iPad is the natural purchase for them.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:18 AM   #137
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Jimmy Kimmel might know why.


Last edited by OllyW; Nov 6, 2012 at 07:57 AM. Reason: Please use youtube tags
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:18 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Mr Rogers View Post
Fact is, most people globally can never afford a Apple device, however, they can afford Android devices.
And then there is a huge market outside the US where people COULD afford the Apple products but simply REFUSE to pay more for less or they just don't want to buy a Walled Garden product.

It's hard to convince an average German to buy a Walled Garden Apple product when you can have an open Google product with better specs for less money. (And yes, Google's Play Store now also has over 750,000 apps, which is the same amount as Apple's AppStore has. The software ecosystem certainly isn't a problem anymore.)

Also, I think Apple is reaching a turning point. Their products are no longer a status symbol because too many people have them. The coolness factor is fading away, and that's a bad thing when you're selling lifestyle products as Apple does.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:47 AM   #139
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What this shows is there was a small tablet market getting a foothold in the space. There was also some slowdown of ipad sales in anticipation of the mini, especially in september.

That being said, I have the feeling Apple is going to take over the most profitable share of the small tablet market, with very low price tablets gettting sold but high end 7" tablets struggling.

I dont think the dump at cost, get paid later model is going to work with most customers that actually have cash to spend after sale will be in the iOS ecosystem.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:48 AM   #140
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How can they when the sell most of their products at cost or sometimes below cost?
Simple...if you have a stronger retail presence in that country, you sell more. Samsung knows this through distribution partners. Amazon knows this through a strong online presence. Apple was WAY late to China and other countries with the iPhone and is now playing catch up. Why do you think they mention it every quarter and put an emphasis on how they are pushing for growth abroad?
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:53 AM   #141
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People like me wait to see what the next one is going to be like. I thought I would upgrade every 2 releases but after seeing them spit one out 7 months after the 3 I think I’ll wait even longer to see if they release one in the spring.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:56 AM   #142
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...They could have come out at a ridiculously low price and just blown all the competition out of the water, but that's not their style. They have a gazillion dollars in the bank and could have sold the thing at a little above cost just to destroy the competition.
Price has less to do with retail presence than you must think. People like you are the same people who see Apple's shrinking growth and still pat Apple on the back say that these analysts are wrong or overstated, but then when Apple turns around and says, "We screwed up" in the quarterly statement you say that you saw it coming.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:56 AM   #143
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The most important reason for the drop in share is not introduction of many other tablets, but the rumors about iPad Mini. Millions of units of iPad Mini sold: clearly shows that Apple's still on top of the game.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:57 AM   #144
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Haven't found the wall yet

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Originally Posted by Winni View Post
And then there is a huge market outside the US where people COULD afford the Apple products but simply REFUSE to pay more for less or they just don't want to buy a Walled Garden product.

It's hard to convince an average German to buy a Walled Garden Apple product when you can have an open Google product with better specs for less money. (And yes, Google's Play Store now also has over 750,000 apps, which is the same amount as Apple's AppStore has. The software ecosystem certainly isn't a problem anymore.)

Also, I think Apple is reaching a turning point. Their products are no longer a status symbol because too many people have them. The coolness factor is fading away, and that's a bad thing when you're selling lifestyle products as Apple does.
I have walked a long way in this garden and haven't found a wall yet. I could care less about cool and machine specifications, I care about productivity and seemless integration into my workflow. When Apple products stop doing that I will be looking elsewhere. As it stands now the newest iPad just allowed my to drop a laptop from my routine without sacrifice. As far as the ridiculous measuring stick that is specifications the same iPad completes tasks with impressive speed. I prefer it over all but my most powerful desktop.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 08:03 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Winni View Post
And then there is a huge market outside the US where people COULD afford the Apple products but simply REFUSE to pay more for less or they just don't want to buy a Walled Garden product.

It's hard to convince an average German to buy a Walled Garden Apple product when you can have an open Google product with better specs for less money. (And yes, Google's Play Store now also has over 750,000 apps, which is the same amount as Apple's AppStore has. The software ecosystem certainly isn't a problem anymore.)

Also, I think Apple is reaching a turning point. Their products are no longer a status symbol because too many people have them. The coolness factor is fading away, and that's a bad thing when you're selling lifestyle products as Apple does.
I would guess that less than 10% of the market is even concerned about the "walled garden". The majority of the market just wants something that works.

The sales numbers this holiday season will be a good indication.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 08:03 AM   #146
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As for smartphones for Q3, here's what research firm IDC found:


http://www.slashgear.com/android-sco...-idc-01255280/

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Old Nov 6, 2012, 08:05 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by neonmd View Post
I have walked a long way in this garden and haven't found a wall yet. I could care less about cool and machine specifications, I care about productivity and seemless integration into my workflow. When Apple products stop doing that I will be looking elsewhere. As it stands now the newest iPad just allowed my to drop a laptop from my routine without sacrifice. As far as the ridiculous measuring stick that is specifications the same iPad completes tasks with impressive speed. I prefer it over all but my most powerful desktop.
Well...try to get your iTunes movie content up on the big screen without an Apple TV.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 08:06 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by mrxak View Post
You can ship 'em, but can you sell 'em?

I don't hear too many stories about anything made by Samsung selling out in hours. Apple sells what they ship, and mostly ships only what they've already sold. Go to a brick and mortar store and see boxes and boxes of Samsung tablets lined up.

All this came out in the trial. Samsung is leaving loads of product on shelves.
You have to pay attention to Q over Q shipments. Retailers, etc are not going to keep getting shipments if they aren't moving the product. It makes no sense. Explain how these retailers keep ordering more and/or have space on their shelves or warehouse for items NOT selling. It defies logic.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 08:20 AM   #149
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Explain how these retailers keep ordering more and/or have space on their shelves or warehouse for items NOT selling. It defies logic.
The obvious answer to your question would be that they are throwing out old stuff and making room for new stuff. Hence the losses by most mobile manufacturers. I doubt this theory would apply to Samsung specifically though.

The part that I don't understand is how analysts can be so far off on Apple's shipments every quarter when they have actual historical numbers to base their estimates on. And, yet, they seem to remain confident in their estimates for all of these other companies that they have no reported numbers to reconcile with. How can they really track the "Others" share that is made up of a multitude of smaller companies for a total of almost 30% of the market?
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 08:28 AM   #150
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The obvious answer to your question would be that they are throwing out old stuff and making room for new stuff. Hence the losses by most mobile manufacturers. I doubt this theory would apply to Samsung specifically though.

The part that I don't understand is how analysts can be so far off on Apple's shipments every quarter when they have actual historical numbers to base their estimates on. And, yet, they seem to remain confident in their estimates for all of these other companies that they have no reported numbers to reconcile with. How can they really track the "Others" share that is made up of a multitude of smaller companies for a total of almost 30% of the market?
So you honestly believe that retailers are throwing products OUT and then accepting more shipments? Or are you being sarcastic because I honestly can't tell.
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