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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:24 PM   #76
blanka
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Just have a very nice handheld gadget here running a 4-bit Hitachi HD38820 SOC. Who needs more than 2Kb...
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:25 PM   #77
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Still using on as my main (only) Mac.
Haha my Dad still uses our old 15" iMac 1.25 Ghz PowerPC 512MB of RAM lol
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:25 PM   #78
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Sheesh! It's a never ending theme. I can see Apple coming up with some small, less expensive device to run iOS apps that seems more like a notebook that would use ARM chips. But does Apple want a device like that? They don't seem to be going in that direction.

But to supplant x86 for OS X seems like a stretch. No matter how powerful ARM can get, x86 will always be a magnitude more powerful. Will Apple be willing to sacrifice that power? I don't think so. Apple depends on powerful chips to run its graphical interfaces.

Now that the iPhone 5 is as, or more powerful than, the most powerful G4 PowerBook, some might say that it's powerful enough already for such work. But they would be wrong. Five years from now, an Apple Arm chip might be as powerful as an Intel i5 mobile chip today, but we will be well past that by then.

What I can see happening, is Apple emulating iOS, or having their API's in OS X. Possibly, even an ARM chip in the machine as well, as they are inexpensive, small and use little power.

But I can't see it taking over in OS X unless Apple is willing to abandon all computing tasks that require some real power.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:25 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
Isn't Microsoft currently selling a Windows tablet that comes as either ARM or 486?
The ARM version of Windows is a locked down OS, like iOS. We're talking about Macs here, not iPads. So what you're saying doesn't matter.

ARM processors that can crunch as fast as Intel processor have no advantages over said Intel processors. Medfield proves it.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:25 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
Isn't Microsoft currently selling a Windows tablet that comes as either ARM or 486?

And so if Apple is thinking about doing the exact same thing that Microsoft is doing...that's the end of the world?

People need to get a grip.
yea, but its the x86 pro version that people are more excited about
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:25 PM   #81
CausticPuppy
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Originally Posted by Nathan20 View Post
If it benefits the consumer then they should go for it.

Can see this happening for OS XI
There won't be an "OS XI" because "OS X" is an established brand for more than a decade; they'll just keep incrementing the numbers. After 10.9 comes 10.10, and 10.11, etc.

They will, however, run out of cats.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:25 PM   #82
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With all the negativity here it must be a great idea! It might not be something that would work today, it might just be a ploy to improve negotiating position with Intel, but it gives Apple some really interesting options. Mainly, more of the profit share, but there might be another reason in there for 3-5 years from now.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:26 PM   #83
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To give Apple the benefit of the doubt, they already have experience dealing with this sort of transition so they probably have some infrastructure in place within XCode to switch from compiling apps from one chip to another.

In terms of hardware, ARM has been steadily catching up in terms of performance with x86 processors and blows x86 away in terms of power utilization. Maybe in a few years the differences between the two will be negligible.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:26 PM   #84
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:27 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
Isn't Microsoft currently selling a Windows tablet that comes as either ARM or 486?

And so if Apple is thinking about doing the exact same thing that Microsoft is doing...that's the end of the world?

People need to get a grip.
It's more an argument against people who think ARM can replace x86 at this point in time. It could possibly happen...in the far future. Assuming Intel or even AMD drop the ball so severely it gives ARM a half decade window to play catch up.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:27 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by fishmoose View Post
I'm sure Apple is considering a lot of things. That doesn't mean it will happen anytime soon - if ever.
I'm sure they have been experimenting with arm for a few years now. Don't see it much more than that either. Macbook air eventually maybe?
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:27 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
I think you're not understanding LLVM and what it does exactly. It's not a virtual machine at all.
Low Level Virtual Machine

http://llvm.org

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LLVM

I assure you that whatever narrow definition you are trying to apply to the words Virtual Machine are incorrect. LLVM in an acronym with Virtual Machine in the name (formerly)
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:28 PM   #88
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You do understand what those servers are targetted at right ? I wouldn't run my ERP off of them, but as disposable Web servers, they'd be really nice (a bunch of active-active cluster nodes with a good load balancer would make a very nice horizontal scaling architecture with good control over power consumption).

But that's not what we're discussing, we're discussing desktops and laptops!
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:28 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by CausticPuppy View Post
There won't be an "OS XI" because "OS X" is an established brand for more than a decade; they'll just keep incrementing the numbers. After 10.9 comes 10.10, and 10.11, etc.

They will, however, run out of cats.
Once they go to arm = tabby cat maybe?
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:28 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
The ARM version of Windows is a locked down OS, like iOS. We're talking about Macs here, not iPads. So what you're saying doesn't matter.
What I'm saying is that Windows came out with ARM Windows and it didn't replace 486 Windows, it supplemented it.

So what makes anyone think that ARM Macs will replace 486 Macs?

That sure seems to me like a point that 'matters.'
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:28 PM   #91
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Nope. Not buying it. But I'm sure it'll stir up the typical MR hornets nest of people who claim to be outraged, who'll say that they will never buy another Mac (from their Windows PC, of course).

But, hey, it's good for page views, right?
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:28 PM   #92
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[QUOTE=MacRumors;16234075]
Apple has recently moved away from using off the shelf chips in its iOS devices in recent years, in favor of its own designs like the A4, A5 and the just-released A6X chips.


Redundant much?
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:29 PM   #93
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Once they go to arm = tabby cat maybe?
OS X Bagpuss
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:29 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Low Level Virtual Machine

http://llvm.org

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LLVM

I assure you that whatever narrow definition you are trying to apply to the words Virtual Machine are incorrect. LLVM in an acronym with Virtual Machine in the name (formerly)
Sure, but it's not a virtual machine. You don't get bytecode shipped to you and compiled at runtime by this "virtual machine". The developer ships you pre-compiled machine code that is x86.

The "VM" part is not a "VM" like you're thinking : ie, a runtime envirronnement that does JIT compiling or interprets bytecode. Read the sites you posted to actually know what you're talking about.

LLVM is just another compiler with a different model to support multiple architectures.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:29 PM   #95
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Hmm interesting. Just yesterday was watching new Haswell intel chip and was amazed how great it is. Significantly lower power consumption, nice performance raise, and graphic 2x doubled then hd4000. Since dont have the urge to buy new laptop right now thought to wait next gen, but know I am confused.
Is this a good bye to Apple or we will see something "amazing" who knows.
But doubt ARM could be better.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:30 PM   #96
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There is no way Apple is gonna Beat Intel in the foreseeable future.
CPU power is on the top of my list and I am not going to be pursuaded otherwise. By then it probably won't matter as the rest of the notebooks will be on par or better than what Apple has to offer (retina, sleek design, OS etc.).
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:30 PM   #97
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ARM = Apps have to be rewritten = Only Mac App Store apps allowed to run on OS X?

I said it wouldn't happen. But if Apple switches to ARM then that changes the game. And I think they might use the excuse of "Apps have to be rewritten anyway, so we can just require that they be written to be compatible with the App Store restrictions"

I really hope not.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:31 PM   #98
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Sounds like a really, really bad idea.

Some of us depend on Windows virtualization. It's a necessary evil.
I winder with Windows having their RT version whether that will be as much of an issue a few years?
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:31 PM   #99
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So what makes anyone think that ARM Macs will replace 486 Macs?
The fact that "ARM Macs" that don't replace "x86 Macs" (not 486... Apple actually uses the 686 architecture or x86_64) are already here ? They're known as iOS devices. Windows RT has nothing to do with Windows for x86.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:31 PM   #100
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What the hell? It took me forever to get my MacBook to all-Intel-only so that I could reap the benefits of upgrading and leaving the past in the past; at least on one computer.

I've been rocking the majority-PPC-based-systems lifestyle for quite some time, so guess who's going to be supporting Intel well into Apple's next endeavour? This guy.
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