Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:42 AM   #76
OllyW
Moderator
 
OllyW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Black Country, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fusion View Post
So ARM doesn't manufacture chips? Oh.. Well then this makes more sense, I can understand why Apple would do this now.
Apple already licenses ARM designs for it's CPUs in the iPhone, iPad, Apple TV & iPod touch which are currently manufactured by Samsung.
__________________
Some Apple stuff
Some other stuff
https://soundcloud.com/disco-tramps
OllyW is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:42 AM   #77
yeah
macrumors 6502a
 
yeah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
In a computer, I don't care about power savings. I want high processor speed with lots and lots of cores. I want a Chevy Corvette not a Toyota Priss.
I want a 1 hour battery
__________________
2014 Macbook Air, 1.4 GHz Haswell i5, 4 GB 1600 MHz RAM, 128 GB PCI-e Flash, Intel HD 5000 ; 16 GB iPhone 5S Gold with the Un-Carrier ; iPad 2 16 GB White with Wi-Fi and a Surface 2 tablet.
yeah is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:42 AM   #78
The Wedge
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Great, my 16-core 2013 mac pro is already obsolete!
__________________
"I'm conducting classical music!"
The Wedge is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:44 AM   #79
roxxette
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wedge View Post
Great, my 16-core 2013 mac pro is already obsolete!
Its legacy hardware
roxxette is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:48 AM   #80
everything-i
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybluejeans View Post
I have no problem with a move to custom ARM chips as long as they are competitive performance-wise. Look at the power consumption of something like the iPad compared to your PC -- the iPad consumes roughly 1/15th the power. Beyond applying this to home computers and laptops, think about the implications for a server farm. We are moving more and more to "the cloud", but look at what it takes to power and cool these enormous data centers -- it isn't cheap.

If Apple can make chips that perform near Intel levels and consume a fraction of the power it is a no brainer if you ask me.
If Apple could do this they would be doing it now and putting Intel, AMD and others out of business. It is enormously expensive and time consuming to design and manufacture something as complex as a high end processor and currently Apple is barely off the first rung of that ladder in processor design. The reason they use ARM designs for SOC is that most of the hard work is already done for them. Ask AMD how hard it is to compete with Intel, I'm sure they would say the same thing.
everything-i is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:48 AM   #81
blackhand1001
macrumors 68030
 
blackhand1001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky Deluxe View Post
Because they have to keep their options open. Intel's doing great right now but that might not always be the case - the Pentium 4 was an atrocious processor and AMD trumped them in almost every way. These days AMD isn't really much of a contender due to comparatively lacklustre performance. If Intel missteps and spends another 5 years pushing a poor processor, Apple might do well to use a different technology.
Even the fastest arm processors aren't even approaching those horrible pentium 4 levels of performance.
__________________
Macbook 2008
HP Dv7t - 2.53 ghz, 9600m GT, WSXGA+, 120gb ssd, 250 gb 7200rpm
Core i7 3770k, 8gb ram, 2x 120gb sdd raid0, 500gb hdd, GTX 460
Moto X Dev Edition (VZW) Nexus 7
blackhand1001 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:53 AM   #82
ChrisA
macrumors G4
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redondo Beach, California
Yes Apple or anyone could build a very fast ARM core and then put 8 cores on a chip and have a very powerful ARM based computer but, a fast ARM core would use a lot of power too. One gains speed by pipelining a lot of operations which means a lot more space is used

One the other hand Intel does make low power x86 ships, look at the Atom.
ChrisA is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:55 AM   #83
The Bulge
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Up your ass.
Apple starts making noise now and we all win in the end.
The Bulge is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:57 AM   #84
roxxette
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bulge View Post
Apple starts making noise now and we all win in the end.
If you are one of those "heavy facebook users" and casual youtube then sure you win.
roxxette is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:01 AM   #85
Glassed Silver
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Kassel, Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobi View Post
Wow, now we have something to digest and debate well into 2014...
Dec 12 can't come soon enough...

Glassed Silver:mac
__________________
Last login: Sat May 5 22:52:51 on ttys000
Society-System:~ dumbnut$ rm -rf ~/Library/mind.db ~/Library/Frameworks/tolerance
~/Library/Frameworks/commonsense ~/integrity ~/individuality
Glassed Silver is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:03 AM   #86
The Bulge
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Up your ass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxxette View Post
If you are one of those "heavy facebook users" and casual youtube then sure you win.
If i was to believe every doom and gloom scenario painted in these forums about bigger Apple moves then i'd consider myself a "heavy facebook user".
The Bulge is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:04 AM   #87
theluggage
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by krravi View Post
Apple trying to do everything on its own is going to cause its downfall.
This isn't about Apple developing its own CPU from the transistors up. ARM technology means that Apple can license the building blocks of the processor individually from ARM and others to put together exactly the chip they want, rather than waiting for Intel to come up with a generic chip that fits the bill. (Plus, they may already 'own' bits of it, they've partnered with ARM in the past).

ARM isn't getting any slower - the A50 64-bit processors are on their way.

In order of most to least likely:

1. Apple are just hedging their bets against the day when Intel produces the next Pentium 4 debacle.

2. They're looking at entry level laptops possibly running iOS or a 'OS X RT', as a hedge against things like the Asus Transformer, Chromebooks or Windows RT machines hitting the big time.

3. They're thinking of hybrid ARM/x86 machine - think about a MacBook pro with an iPad built into the lid, using the ARM to keep up with email and 'personal organiser' stuff and only firing up the x86 for serious work.
theluggage is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:05 AM   #88
MagnusVonMagnum
macrumors 68040
 
MagnusVonMagnum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
\notes that Russian company Elbrus Technologies has developed a Rosetta-like emulation technology that could allow ARM chips to run software written for Intel processors.
Oh boy! ANOTHER Rosetta! FAIL


How long until THAT Rosetta is dumped and your software no longer works again? One year? Two years? Maybe three?

Quote:
Originally Posted by STiNG Operation View Post
What? Did they have a fight with intel now? lol just kidding. But seriously why run the hurdle race when intel has a good product?
One word: GREED
__________________
Mac Mini Server 2012 (2.3GHz Quad i7, 8GB, 2x1TB RAID 0) ; External 12x Memorex Blu-Ray USB3, External WD 3x3TB,1x2TB HD USB3)
15" Matte MBP 2.4GHz, 4GB/500GB, NVidia 8600M GT; 3 ATV; 2 iPod Touch
MagnusVonMagnum is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:06 AM   #89
Spanky Deluxe
macrumors 601
 
Spanky Deluxe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Even the fastest arm processors aren't even approaching those horrible pentium 4 levels of performance.
That's not true - the current ARMv8 chips are capable of about probably about 25% the performance of current Intel chips. Now of course integer performance isn't everything but ARM has the potential to rival x86 processors. If it were pushed towards performance rather than efficiency more then it would become even more of a rival.

Any such switch isn't going to be happening right now. In ten year's time though we might have seen the last of mainstream x86 processors though. I can see desktops and laptops switching to ARM processors coupled with GPUs - an intelligent operating system could potentially split tasks between an ARM based CPU and GPU based arithmetic on the fly giving some crazy fast systems.

Both ARM processors and especially GPU chips are increasing in performance year on year at a far greater rate than x86 processors. Any future thinking computing company needs to keep their options open for potential changes in the computing landscape in years to come.
__________________
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Spanky Deluxe is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:07 AM   #90
Macboy Pro
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeydude View Post
Biggest hurdle will be, that nobody will buy those products.

p.s. If they already have a roadmap for the switch, I hope they used "Google maps" at least.
Would be a mistake to think that because the tablet markets is following your lead that you can do the same in the PC market. If Apple goes down the path of making their Mac products incompatible, Apple will slow their sales dramatically. PC's blow away the market, Macs do not lead yet.

Don't get me wrong, MAC is better product, but PCs are WAY MORE prevalent.
Macboy Pro is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:13 AM   #91
nuckinfutz
macrumors 603
 
nuckinfutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Middle Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by baryon View Post
Don't think anyone would enjoy having to rewrite every dingle piece of software ever written for the Mac, or else run it in emulation, 20 times slower than if you didn't switch from Intel. The switch from PPC to Intel only just finished completely, a few years ago, when pretty much PCC is no longer supported by anyone. Are we going to have to start all over again, just to get slightly faster computer?
They don't have to. Xcode can target ARM and Intel processors

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharatgupta View Post
very valid point and its at present that things are kind of stable for software developers and users, such moves will only disturb already healthy and flourishing ecosystem.
Most of the major frameworks work across Intel and ARM already. Developers would have an easier time with this transition than PPC >Intel

Quote:
Originally Posted by everything-i View Post
Not implausible, which roughly translates into highly improbable. The cost and time-frame to implement would make it a pointless exercise, they would only use the processors themselves and volumes would not be anywhere near sufficient to get any economies of scale. Apple have so far only just completed a semi custom ARM design which is a million miles from a fully custom processor. Do these people have any appreciation of how much effort and cost is involved in doing this from scratch. Surely if they did they would realise how pointless it would be given the current direction Intel is taking with its offerings. By 2017 it is likely Intel will have similar performing mobile processors to ARM, the only thing currently lacking would be the ability for 3rd parties to integrate Intel designs into SOC designs and is currently a big advantage for ARM designs, if Intel can overcome this they will be a real across the board option by then. ARM is currently lacking any high performance processor designs for power laptop and desktop plus you have to then transition all software to RISC if you go this route which is another huge undertaking. You would be in the realm of Rosetta again which was hugely painful last time but at least had the huge benefit of getting Apple onto superior x86 processors and able to run windows software using virtual machines or boot camp.
It doesn't really matter if Intel is close to ARM in 2017 or not. The value here is having and ARM Architectural license. Which means that if you need high memory bandwidth and GPU performance (a la the A6) you can design it in. Intel isn't offering that..they are offering prefabbed generic processors which means you cannot differentiate your product line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krravi View Post
Apple trying to do everything on its own is going to cause its downfall. There are somethings that you just leave it to others. Maps fiasco is a good example. Sure over time, Apple Maps will get better, but Google isn't going to be taking a nap either.

They want 50 - 60% markup on everything.

I knew bootcamp was a switch and bait kind of deal to sucker users in.

"Hey look you can run Windows on our machines too.. but your machine might end up like a heater as we don't supply the necessary drivers and software to cool the macs. And we dont entertain any support calls if windows is concerned"

Great! And Apple is pissed at Google that they didn't give all the features to Apple? What goes around, comes around, Apple !
Apple's job isn't to prop up windows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky Deluxe View Post
That's not true - the current ARMv8 chips are capable of about probably about 25% the performance of current Intel chips. Now of course integer performance isn't everything but ARM has the potential to rival x86 processors. If it were pushed towards performance rather than efficiency more then it would become even more of a rival.

Any such switch isn't going to be happening right now. In ten year's time though we might have seen the last of mainstream x86 processors though. I can see desktops and laptops switching to ARM processors coupled with GPUs - an intelligent operating system could potentially split tasks between an ARM based CPU and GPU based arithmetic on the fly giving some crazy fast systems.

Both ARM processors and especially GPU chips are increasing in performance year on year at a far greater rate than x86 processors. Any future thinking computing company needs to keep their options open for potential changes in the computing landscape in years to come.
They key with the ARM chips is going to be scaling them with a CoreLink. So while one Cortex A50 series chip is likely to be only 30-40% the speed of an Intel chip it should be a smaller chip meaning you can place multiple in a computer and scale the chips as needed.
nuckinfutz is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:13 AM   #92
Marx55
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
No way. A full x86 compatibility is a must. Besides power. Intel power. No toy-like ARM power.
Marx55 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:14 AM   #93
divinox
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diversion View Post
Apple isn't this retarded people - this is all stemmed from the quarrels that Apple has with Intel.

If ANYTHING happens, Apple will design their own in-house x86/64 CPUs.. Much like AMD is to Intel.

To further build a case, I bet Apple is interested in a hybrid CPU that has a mobile-core for lightweight tasks that switches to full-power x86/64 CPU for more demanding tasks. This will improve battery life in notebooks tremendously.

-Div
Why would Apple dive into a market where chances are slim that they will do well (i.e., high risk, low chance of being better), and that is capital intensive (billions in R&D). Division of labor, and specialization, works for a reason. No RDF will change that. Especially not with Jobs gone.
divinox is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:15 AM   #94
DesterWallaboo
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Western USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yevhen View Post
"The new ARM-based Mac Pro. For the pro in all of us"...
LOL.... best comment on here.

Somehow I don't think we'll be seeing any ARM processors matching Xeon speeds anytime soon. Couple that with the fact that you would have to get major software developers to move over to the new architecture... and it's a recipe for sudden death in the pro arena.

My studio is already getting skittish about Apple after their Final Cut Pro X debacle.
DesterWallaboo is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:27 AM   #95
deydadu
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
It would be great if they announce it in advance, so I can start slowly moving back to Windows and Android...
deydadu is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:28 AM   #96
turtlez
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
wow i can't believe how many people are going berserk with tears over this. Obviously Apple isn't stupid enough to put crappy processors in their machines so grow the hell up and have a little faith in a company that is the best in their league. They are famous and you are a cry baby, that doesn't say much for your crying comments.
turtlez is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:31 AM   #97
Ahonen
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Please, no.
Ahonen is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:37 AM   #98
nuckinfutz
macrumors 603
 
nuckinfutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Middle Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by divinox View Post
Why would Apple dive into a market where chances are slim that they will do well (i.e., high risk, low chance of being better), and that is capital intensive (billions in R&D). Division of labor, and specialization, works for a reason. No RDF will change that. Especially not with Jobs gone.
You mean the same Jobs that acquired Intrinsity and PaSemi? Jobs set this in motion with acquisitions that lead to exactly what we're seeing here the potential for custom ARM designs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlez View Post
wow i can't believe how many people are going berserk with tears over this. Obviously Apple isn't stupid enough to put crappy processors in their machines so grow the hell up and have a little faith in a company that is the best in their league. They are famous and you are a cry baby, that doesn't say much for your crying comments.
Most of the Apple Engineers working on these projects have forgotten more than most of us know about these things. The level of ignorance here is breathtaking. Do people wake up and say "let me get snarky on subjects that I don't have the faintest clue about"?

nuckinfutz is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:44 AM   #99
mikeoc
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Personally I can't see any real advantage in walking away from intel. It was different with the PPC as it was becoming rather limited at the time. They were great Macs though - one of my main workhorse's is a Dual G5 Tower, still does the job.

I'm of the mindset that Apple would do well releasing the Mac OS for all computers though, which probably makes me something of a minority, if they did this it would allow people to configure their PC's just the way they want. It would most likely see the Mac's market share rise incredibly.

Perhaps there could be a performance advantage with having an Apple chip along with the intel processor?
__________________
Using macs since 1986
http://www.best4reviews.com
mikeoc is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:46 AM   #100
midiotlv
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Apple should just buy Intel.
midiotlv is offline   2 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apple Considering Switch From Intel Chips in Future Macs MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 1028 Apr 11, 2014 05:02 PM
Aftermarket CarPlay Support Faces Technical Hurdles, Uncertain Future MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 96 Mar 16, 2014 12:23 PM
Viability of a ARM/Intel Hybrid? Abazigal MacBook Air 4 Dec 29, 2012 09:31 AM
Teddy Roosevelt's Badlands Ranch Faces Potential Threat bradl Politics, Religion, Social Issues 1 Aug 7, 2012 09:51 PM
Intel on x86 vs ARM - Power consumption vs Performance KnightWRX Apple, Industry and Internet Discussion 9 Jun 15, 2012 01:26 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:28 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC