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Old Nov 7, 2012, 04:04 AM   #1
Confuzzzed
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2012 iMac or 2013 iMac?

Not withstanding the usual teething problems associated with a redesigned product line, it would also appear that the 2012 iMac will be the shortest cycle if Intel releases its Haswell processors by mid-2013. Obviously, there will be the usual Apple lag so can possibly expect a 2013 iMac to launch in late July 2013 alongside OS-X 10.9.

The question is, could Apple surprise us all with a quiet update in spring 2013? And what does Haswell really bring to the desktop set-up? Is it worth waiting for it I wonder? From what I have seen, not much computational power increment but better power consumption maybe. The biggest thing, in my mind would be improved GPUs but it would appear the options available in the 2012 model are pretty strong anyway so unless someone is willing to wait to H2 2013, perhaps there is not a lot to be gained with Haswell. Or is it?

For many years Intel used "tick-tock" development model to design new generations of microprocessors.

In this model, each tick cycle uses new manufacturing process to produce more refined version of existing architecture, and each tock cycle introduces new microarchitecture on existing manufacturing process. The last "tick" was Ivy Bridge micro-architecture, launched less than three months ago. The next "tock" cycle will be Haswell micro-architecture. Haswell processors are going to have a handful of new features, such as AVX 2.0 instructions, better GPU, overclocking improvements, integrated voltage regulator, new low-power states, just to name a few.

The processors will utilize new sockets, socket H3 (LGA1150) on desktop. According to recent roadmaps, that we've seen, Haswell processors may launch in April, although there is a chance that some desktop Haswell products will be available later.

Haswell CPUs will have three versions of graphics units: GT1, GT2 and GT3. The GT1 will have the lowest performance from all three, and it will be used only on dual-core chips. Desktop quad-cores will have better GT2 graphics, and quad-core mobile products will come with GT2 or GT3 graphics. Quad-cores desktop and mobile CPUs, equipped with GT2 GPU, will be ready for launch in April 2013.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 11:41 AM   #2
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Anyone who had been waiting for the 2012 now decided to wait to mid-2013 for Haswell?
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 12:05 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Confuzzzed View Post
Anyone who had been waiting for the 2012 now decided to wait to mid-2013 for Haswell?
Just my opinion but I'd be shocked if there was a new iMac before mid 2014.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 12:10 PM   #4
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Just my opinion but I'd be shocked if there was a new iMac before mid 2014.
It all depends on how the new form factor deals with heat dissipation (Haswell likely to be more energy efficient so there may be an urgency to upgrade as soon as it is released; particularly if its structure overall does not necessitate a new motherboard). And any other coincidental teething problems. Which experience tells us always happen with such redesigns.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 12:36 PM   #5
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The main benefits of Haswell are for mobile notebooks, so if I was looking at a MBA or MBP then I might hang on, but I can't see much reason to defer an iMac purchase.

The biggest performance hike in years for the iMac range is the Fusion drive. A slightly faster processor next year won't make much difference for me.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 12:39 PM   #6
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The main benefits of Haswell are for mobile notebooks, so if I was looking at a MBA or MBP then I might hang on, but I can't see much reason to defer an iMac purchase.

The biggest performance hike in years for the iMac range is the Fusion drive. A slightly faster processor next year won't make much difference for me.
Don't forget haswell weill bring better cooling, which, if you have your imac on 24/7 working with video or audio will make a difference for your computer frying in the summer heat.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 01:40 PM   #7
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Just my opinion but I'd be shocked if there was a new iMac before mid 2014.


You Sir are clearly new to Apple and don't know how they function, The mouse and keyboard haven't been changed nor has the look from the front.

So Apple will likely change this soon to rake in more money. The aluminum on the iMac could go the way of the iPhone/iPad Mini when deciding to change the look from the front.

More importantly you would know Apple update their computers around 7-10 Months, the exception was the last iMac 2011 and thats cos they were working on this new design. I full expect another iMac in 2013 could be near the end of the year.

If they don't could mean a shift in how the update their desktops line but I highly doubt it
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 01:50 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Confuzzzed View Post
Obviously, there will be the usual Apple lag so can possibly expect a 2013 iMac to launch in late July 2013 alongside OS-X 10.9.

could Apple surprise us all with a quiet update in spring 2013?
Haven't read your entire message, but no, I don't think Apple will refresh in spring 2013. I reckon they'll stick to September 2013.

This new processor you speak of, maybe it'll be in the new Mac Pro which Tim promised.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 01:56 PM   #9
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Well confuzzed. Since the universe + apple + my research funding threw some 1st world **** in my way, I will be waiting for atleast the 2013 imac. Actually, I wont be waiting for it. I bought the 15" MBP, and plan to do some personal upgrades on it. And when It cant pull my weight, Ill go to whatever iMac is available at that time. So either 2013 or 2014 iMac for me.

More on your side: It's hard to say what will happen in 2013. nVidias roadmap will be interesting to look at, but it will hardly be the jump they made with these new 680s. Haswell won't mean much either, but cheaper SSD along with more RAM might be worth it by themselves.

Right now, the 2012 iMac doesnt give enough of an upgrade against my 2012 MBP, so waiting depends on what you have atm.

Certainly, I don't think 2013 iMac will be much of a revolution. Even the 2014 iMac might be a smaller upgrade from 2012, than the 2011 to 2012.

Obviously baby issued might get fixed, but they also might not. WHat did apple do to smudges ?
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 02:06 PM   #10
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At least I'll have a month or so from the 21" release to know if there are any serious overheating problems and/or other teething problems before I buy my 27"
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 02:14 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by NextGenApple View Post

More importantly you would know Apple update their computers around 7-10 Months...
If they don't could mean a shift in how the update their desktops line but I highly doubt it
The Mac Pro boys will be happy to hear this

----------

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Originally Posted by Siderz View Post
Haven't read your entire message, but no, I don't think Apple will refresh in spring 2013. I reckon they'll stick to September 2013.

This new processor you speak of, maybe it'll be in the new Mac Pro which Tim promised.
Probably not. Haskell is intended for the consumer market. The Mac Pro typically uses a work station CPU.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 04:47 PM   #12
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Am in US at present and seriously tempted to pick up a Mac mini with Fusion drive because if things go wrong, it's a less costly mistake to fix...and wait for the new iMac to get to a second iteration before I get involved...
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 04:54 PM   #13
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Intel released Sandy Bridge parts suitable for the iMac in April 2012, it took until November 2012 for an iMac with these parts to become available.

The interval between the 2011 and 2012 updates was around 18 months.

Draw your own conclusions.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 05:10 PM   #14
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normally i wouldn't consider such a minor spec bump, but considering how thin the imac has become and given the fact of its extreme notebook like interior, a CPU that produce less heat and consumes less energy is an important upgrade factor that should be considered.

But it really depends on your needs. If you have a 2011 imac, then wait for the next update. If you have an older model or been waiting to switch to macs, then u should definitely think about getting the 2012 model in december
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 05:12 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by 24Frames View Post
Intel released Sandy Bridge parts suitable for the iMac in April 2012, it took until November 2012 for an iMac with these parts to become available.

The interval between the 2011 and 2012 updates was around 18 months.

Draw your own conclusions.
You mean Ivy Bridge?
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 05:12 PM   #16
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My thoughts about Haswell pertain primarily to the rMBP, particularly the 13". As far as Haswell in the iMac series? I haven't read anything that would justify waiting a year for Haswell.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 05:27 PM   #17
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Wasen't Intel's latest tock Sandy Bridge that was released april 2011?
And wasen't the Sandy Bridge equipt Imacs released may 3 2011 even thouge it was alot of talk about problems that delayed the intel's Sandy Bridge chips.

What i am saying is that even thouge Apple tends to lag between intel's CPU releases and there own releases it hasen't always been that way. Just becaus it took extremly long time this time it dosen't mean thay take as long time next time.

Ofcours Apple wants to test and make shore it is there best product ever but i don't think it will be the CPU that will delay it next year more likly Retina screen if it will be then.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 05:32 PM   #18
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Why wait for an iMac in 2013 when you could wait for one in 2014? Or 2015?

I find it hard to believe that an Ivy Bridge iMac isn't fast enough for the OP. Yes, the next model will be faster. But what good is tomorrow's computer if you need to get to work today?
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 06:02 PM   #19
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Tim cook has all ready said that updates on the computers will be slower and as it seems iOS stuff updates more rapidly. Probably because there are more breakthrough tech development and more competition in the mobile market. So if you want to keep waiting chances are you're gonna have to wait 1.5 years more... And that will be for a incremental speed bump to the 2012 model with the same screen and rest. So unless you are pushing your gpu and cpu to the very limit of what it can do your waiting will be a waste of time... And if you really need such horse powers you should wait for the next Mac Pro instead.
And about this model not performing a lot more than the previous is because consumer computers are reaching a point were more speed isn't that important anymore for most users it's enough.

And btw I wouldn't say the new models have a small speed bump. CPU maybe yes but gpu 680mx is a lot faster than what you could get before. Twice the amount of ram is a lot. Much better screen is a lot. USB 3 speed vs USB 2 is a lot. So the difference between the 2011 and 2012 will be a lot more than between the 2012 and 2013 if that comes out.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 06:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Broseidon View Post
Just my opinion but I'd be shocked if there was a new iMac before mid 2014.
Why? They haven't been skipping cpu generations. Why would they go for 2014? Broadwell could be a year out from there. You could see something like a fall 2013 imac refresh with just a spec bump. People need to get over the idea that dropping in a basic refresh is too costly or labor intensive for Apple. It's just a normal part of doing business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy82 View Post
Wasen't Intel's latest tock Sandy Bridge that was released april 2011?
And wasen't the Sandy Bridge equipt Imacs released may 3 2011 even thouge it was alot of talk about problems that delayed the intel's Sandy Bridge chips.

What i am saying is that even thouge Apple tends to lag between intel's CPU releases and there own releases it hasen't always been that way. Just becaus it took extremly long time this time it dosen't mean thay take as long time next time.

Ofcours Apple wants to test and make shore it is there best product ever but i don't think it will be the CPU that will delay it next year more likly Retina screen if it will be then.
Some of the early Sandy Bridge chips had problems related to a chipset bug. It also led to other delays. Intel's official release dates are more of a general guideline anyway. Apple doesn't always update like clockwork, but they do update. Intel also spaces things out. Some of the predictions on here are just silly.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 03:25 AM   #21
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...Much better screen is a lot. USB 3 speed vs USB 2 is a lot. So the difference between the 2011 and 2012 will be a lot more than between the 2012 and 2013 if that comes out.
Is the screen quality really any better than the screens that the 27" iMac has had since 2009? Seems to be the same quality with just a revised production process (black smudging / dust not withstanding). Apple will always big up some new technique but essentially it's likely that the screen quality remains the same with no discernible difference.

EDIT: I guess the "less reflective" screen on the new iMac can be considered an improvement.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 04:51 AM   #22
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Is the screen quality really any better than the screens that the 27" iMac has had since 2009? Seems to be the same quality with just a revised production process (black smudging / dust not withstanding). Apple will always big up some new technique but essentially it's likely that the screen quality remains the same with no discernible difference.
What are you basing this on? Just your gut feeling? Because I think at this point that's about all you can be basing it on. Fair enough I guess. But early hands on reviewers said the screen looks better. We'll just have to wait and see.

And not sure you're correct in saying that Apple doesn't deliver on some new technique... Retina? Big difference. Fusion Drive? From the few comparisons posted so far... big difference.

I'm not sure there will be a big difference between this year and next year's iMac apart from it being 2nd gen and also slightly faster. Oh and you would imagine that SSD will be cheaper by then.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 06:26 AM   #23
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What are you basing this on? Just your gut feeling? Because I think at this point that's about all you can be basing it on. Fair enough I guess. But early hands on reviewers said the screen looks better. We'll just have to wait and see.

And not sure you're correct in saying that Apple doesn't deliver on some new technique... Retina? Big difference. Fusion Drive? From the few comparisons posted so far... big difference.

I'm not sure there will be a big difference between this year and next year's iMac apart from it being 2nd gen and also slightly faster. Oh and you would imagine that SSD will be cheaper by then.
It is a gut feeling as Apple have a track record in always bigging up any changes as though it's revolutionary, some are indeed bigger steps whilst others are just Apple showmanship. My guess is the improvements in the screen will be far less discernible - basically same resolution, likely same backlight technology.....oh you lose 2mm with the screen being melded to the LCD but really, is that going to make the screen so much better? Also, considering the ridiculous delay between announcement and release guess they are still perfecting this melding technique so the REV B 2013 iMac could potentially be more attractive.

Fusion Drive......a great example of Apple re-packaging relatively cheap 128GB SSD, giving it a sexy name and then charging the Apple premium. We know Apple have always done this, we still buy their kit but sometimes I think the Apple premium is getting slightly out of hand.

The only part of this new iMac that I really find attractive is the upgraded GPU (680MX), but that's always the way with the revised iMacs and the 2GB 6970M in my current iMac is plenty powerful enough for the moment.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 08:06 AM   #24
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I was close to selling my 2010 iMac to get the 2012 model but it still runs great so I am waiting for a retina display hopefully next year will see results also I wonder when iMacs will integrate the new wi fi protocol.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 04:08 AM   #25
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Anyone change their minds since the full details, tear-downs & reviews of the 2012 machine have emerged?
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