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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:09 AM   #76
Xiroteus
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Even with less power then the iPad 4, once this has a retina display that will help quite a bit, I would still likely go with a larger iPad yet it makes the mini more tempting.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:11 AM   #77
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Expect even lower sales now after all these rumours... who is going to buy a tablet that will be obsolete in half a year?
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:17 AM   #78
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Because the technology didnt exist to make the retina display and sell the product this year. I think everyone who is guessing that we are going to see a retina screen in March seems to glossing over the fact this report says they are going to have these screens ready for production in quantity for the 4th quarter. That is likely Apples fiscal 4th quarter, so July-Sept 2013, so in about a year we will see a retina iPad mini.
They'll prob spend a few months building up a stock of displays, so maybe more like November/December
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:21 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by ironsienna View Post
Expect even lower sales now after all these rumours... who is going to buy a tablet that will be obsolete in half a year?
I am. It won't be obsolete. It'll work just fine. And my 6-year old son who is getting it for Christmas won't give two *****s about the PPI.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:21 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by rwilliams View Post
This is why I wouldn't waste my money on the 1st generation Mini. You know that a Retina version is on the way.
Indeed, only people who really need the iPad mini NOW and idiots go for it now.
And also those who just buy they latest stuff out of passion (fair enough).

I know, being a Retina addict since iPhone 4, I could never go back to anything less.
I just... can't.

It kills me every time when I use an app that has just a volume slider that's not retina.
(we all know those apps that are "mostly retina" only... ugh...)

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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:26 AM   #81
Xiroteus
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Originally Posted by Glassed Silver View Post

I know, being a Retina addict since iPhone 4, I could never go back to anything less.


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I just went from the 3GS to the 4S, yeah, not going to anything else, the 3GS looked horrible side to side after seeing retina.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:30 AM   #82
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Apple is going to be running into another problem soon. At some point everybody that wants an iPhone or iPad, and can afford it, will have one. What does Apple do after that?
iWatch? iEye?
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:35 AM   #83
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The next mini comes in April with Retina display.
Basically, and then all the first gen owners will be mad as with the ipad3/ipad4 situation
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:46 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by ncaissie View Post
The next mini comes in April with Retina display.
That's what I'm hoping for...I'm not going to buy a non-retina iPad mini now for $329 like others, which will be crying when the retina mini comes out early next year, but that's what they get to have the first version. Then apple will drop the price for the 1st gen. mini from $329 to $199 (like it should be).
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:51 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Breaking Good View Post
Apple is going to be running into another problem soon. At some point everybody that wants an iPhone or iPad, and can afford it, will have one. What does Apple do after that?
Get you to buy a 2nd, a 3rd, a 4th iThing. When it comes to iPads they're portable screens. As wireless speeds increase, and processor/graphics power, it would be smart of Apple to get iOS devices to be crossing linking on local network.

This would be most true with 'older' devices which could then be mounted various places around a house or apartment.

Also they're never going to sell someone like me an iPhone as long as Dataplan charges are so stupidly high and a non-negotialable (as in I don't want the service at all) with USA cell companies.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:57 AM   #86
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either way; i'm waiting for the retina mini. :d
+1
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:59 AM   #87
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Well it's about time the iPad mini get the retina display. Seriously, why did Apple release the mini without it?
cost and time to market and market research.

To hit the $329 price point this year, you can't develop new technology like that without an estimate of your build rate. the problem was the iPad2 was selling a lot of devices... so the question was/is: Is it the price or the 'value' that drove the iPad2 market. Now Apple can determine the ratios of
iPad2s (non retina)
iPad4s (retina)
iPad Mini

in the steady state, and determine where the next iPad Mini RD pricing can go (up for more value, or stay low as it's more about form factor), and then set the 'n-1' iPad Mini price (current iPad Mini) as the low cost entry to address the $199 7" market.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 12:02 PM   #88
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DEVELOPMENT does not = production

The fact remains that this does not mean a refresh in April unless Apple can offer a processor with better GPU performance than the standard A5 & A6 that is not as power hungry as the A5X and A6X.

1 component in development (NOTE! DEVELOPMENT not production) does not constitute a sure fire refresh with retina.

The A5X & A6X are criminally power hungry hence the increased battery capacity of the iPad 3 & 4 over the iPad 2 which still resulted in less battery life and extra weight to the device.

The Mini in it's current form needs the power of those chipsets, but one that isn't compromised in both battery and thickness, and currently that doesn't exist.

The iPhone 5's A6 on it's own isn't powerful enough to drive the 2048 x 1536 screen resolution (hence the A6X). In fact the iPhone 5's 1136 x 640 resolution is actually 50,000 pixels smaller than the iPad mini's 1024 x 768 currently.

So assume Apple manage to make a revision to the A6 that does add more power to it's gpu without needing a 45W battery (3x the capacity of the iPad mini which gets 2 hours more battery life in real world tests).


So development of a retina screen was always going to be there, but alongside that they need development of a new chip, and newer battery tech in order to provide the juice and preserve the 'svelte' size and weight of the ipad mini.

That may all come together next year, it may not.

Remeber also in their cheaper hardware Apple like to use 'previous gen' CPU's so iPad Mini 2 (or new iPad mini) may just get a bump to a standard A6 as found in the iPhone, but that on it's own may again not be enough to drive that display.

The chances of them refreshing the iPad, iPhone 5s/6 & iPad mini with a newer A7 chip is slim.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 12:03 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by AppleWarMachine View Post
That's what I'm hoping for...I'm not going to buy a non-retina iPad mini now for $329 like others, which will be crying when the retina mini comes out early next year, but that's what they get to have the first version. Then apple will drop the price for the 1st gen. mini from $329 to $199 (like it should be).
agree with everything except the $199... it will be $249. Apple doesn't give away their stuff, and if the estimate is $188 to build the thing, they aren't shipping it and selling it for less than $11.

My wife's iPad2 has to limp along for 4 more months or so;-). That will give me time to 'give her' my 2010 MBP (with an SSD installed) to replace her 2008 macbook, as a peace offering, and get a MBA or 13"MBPrd. I'm caring that way;-)
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 12:14 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by MacRumorUser View Post
The fact remains that this does not mean a refresh in April unless Apple can offer a processor with better GPU performance than the standard A5 & A6 that is not as power hungry as the A5X and A6X.

1 component in development (NOTE! DEVELOPMENT not production) does not constitute a sure fire refresh with retina.

The A5X & A6X are criminally power hungry hence the increased battery capacity of the iPad 3 & 4 over the iPad 2 which still resulted in less battery life and extra weight to the device.

The Mini in it's current form needs the power of those chipsets, but one that isn't compromised in both battery and thickness, and currently that doesn't exist.

The iPhone 5's A6 on it's own isn't powerful enough to drive the 2048 x 1536 screen resolution (hence the A6X). In fact the iPhone 5's 1136 x 640 resolution is actually 50,000 pixels smaller than the iPad mini's 1024 x 768 currently.

So assume Apple manage to make a revision to the A6 that does add more power to it's gpu without needing a 45W battery (3x the capacity of the iPad mini which gets 2 hours more battery life in real world tests).
[...]
That may all come together next year, it may not.

Remeber also in their cheaper hardware Apple like to use 'previous gen' CPU's so iPad Mini 2 (or new iPad mini) may just get a bump to a standard A6 as found in the iPhone, but that on it's own may again not be enough to drive that display.

The chances of them refreshing the iPad, iPhone 5s/6 & iPad mini with a newer A7 chip is slim.
Good Points...
BOTOH, Apple now has no barrier to do this, other than the hard work. I wouldn't be surprised if their chip roadmap starts optimizing to the 3 form factors, thus having an A6, A6X, and and A6Y (a Y maybe with only 3GPUs instead of 4, and other power saving modes.

this isn't like waiting for Intel to push a chipset.

The battery tech is also a key item, as well as the performance (draw) of the screen). The nice thing about Apple is that they can build to spec, with cash, and get a custom glass, custom battery, and custom SoC. this is how they built the original iPad, and set the industry on their ear. At this point, only Samsung is cash capable of building to spec.

That is why I think there may even be MiniRD price bump to $350, (and no possible way they move it to $299 for the 'top of line' Mini), to pay for some of that technology, and the current Mini then drops to $249, still allowing for a 30% Margin. at $249, 349, 429, 499, that's a pretty tight pricing curve allows no one (Microsoft) to find a niche.

If Google can make a iPad Mini competitor and sell it for $199 and make money doing it... more power to them.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 12:16 PM   #91
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2nd gen iPad mini by march 2013, i think so,

early adopters never learn
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 12:24 PM   #92
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So excited if this is true.
The mini with retina display, A6 chip at the same price. I'm sold.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 12:25 PM   #93
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now this is the mini worth buying

hopefully Apple doesn't skimp on the chip this time either
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 12:27 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by tann View Post
But then why did people waste their money on MBA's earlier this year despite us all knowing a retina one will come eventually... Why will people buy the new iMacs when we'll eventually have retina in them as well!
Retina MBAs and iMacs are going to carry a hefty premium. Retina iPad Minis will not. And Retina iPad Minis are far more likely to come much sooner than those other two machines.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 12:29 PM   #95
iKaushal
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Retina mini

Can't wait for it.

Also exploring the possibility of selling off my ipad 3 and get ipad 4
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 12:34 PM   #96
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I just got a mini

But I'll probably end up selling it anyway, I got one to compare it to my iPad 3 and then sell the one I like the least. I don't care if I lose a bit in the process. At least I've tried to see what the best option was for me. I usually leave the 3 at home because it's so heavy.

Currently the balance is swaying towards the 3 though... I just miss the retina a lot now although the extra portability is super. The restricted sRGB color gamut is also very noticeable (it's only 62% vs the almost 100 of the iPad 3/4).

But even though I have a mini now (and if I decide to keep it), I'll still be happy if a retina one comes out very soon. Just like I was not annoyed about the iPad 4 when I already had the 3. Android is driving the market really hard on specs right now and I want Apple to keep up to retain its market share. If it does so the app availability will remain as great as it currently is.

By the way the mini doesn't necessarily need an A6X. It could have a modern A6 with A5X-class performance (so 2x too slow for both GPU and CPU). That should do a lot to save power and size. The mini was not meant to be top of the line speed wise anyway.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 12:34 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Dorje Sylas View Post
Get you to buy a 2nd, a 3rd, a 4th iThing. Also they're never going to sell someone like me an iPhone as long as Dataplan charges are so stupidly high and a non-negotialable (as in I don't want the service at all) with USA cell companies.
I guess it depends on your carrier. I do not have a data plan for my AT&T iPhone 3GS that I bought used.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:07 PM   #98
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The current iPad Mini has the same PPI as the original iPhone. I believe that was intentional as it allows the reuse of existing resources.
I understand, but that's only half the story… It not only has the same resolution as the original iPhone—it also has the same number of pixels as the original iPad, which is obviously intentional as it prevents fragmentation of the platform and makes it simpler for developers. That's why I said it seems incredibly coincidental when you consider these two facts together.

So it would seem either Apple had this all worked out a long time ago—even while publicly poo-pooing the idea of a smaller iPad… OR they worked it out retrospectively once they decided to design a smaller iPad, in which case the 7.9 inch size of the iPad mini was possibly determined, in part, by the desire to meet these two pre-existing specifications.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:08 PM   #99
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Obsolete?

I think the first gen iPad mini will not be obsolete come release of the new mini-retina. I still use my first gen iPad and it does the job. Of course i wish it were faster but aside from facetime, its does all that i desire. Reading books, watching netflix, surfing the web, email.

For alot ot people,the mini will be a solid device worthy of purchase no matter if something new and shiney just appeared.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:24 PM   #100
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It's generally true that early tech adopters often pay a premium. How much did a new LCD or Plasma TV cost when it first released? In the 1980's a new VCR player/recorder cost $500. Who among us that bought it didn't know that subsequent mini's will have more features at the same price?

I waited years for the iPad Mini to appear and read too many "it will never happen" posts to return it now.

Nope, I plan to use and enjoy it until it a retina version releases - whenever it does. And when it does, it may not be the perfect device we envision. I recall the weight, yellow screen, and battery debates between the iPad 2 and iPad 3 owners.

Everyone must decide whether it's currently worth the $329 price tag, but for now, I'll pay it to gain the mini's weight and size reduction.
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