Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:22 AM   #26
AhmedFaisal
Guest
 
<snip>

Last edited by AhmedFaisal; Nov 10, 2013 at 09:25 PM.
  10 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:22 AM   #27
leenak
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by AhmedFaisal View Post
My words exactly. There is two issues I have with amnesties though.

1. Let's make sure that the administrative process of that amnesty doesn't create longer waits for those that have come here legally, paid their dues and are waiting patiently to get their papers processed.

2. Fund it separately. I am in the process of renewing my Greencard (had a 2 year limit as my wife and I weren't married long enough for the full term card). And the whole thing has now cost me 5000$, 3000$ in government fees alone. What would be unfortunate is if they create an amnesty program and, since the people that need it don't have much, subsidize the fees by raising the fees for the ones going through the regular process.

3. Reduce the paperwork/costs for legal immigrants. The current process is convoluted, expensive, slow and sometimes downright offensive. Something needs to be done here. And it's not exactly fair to make our life more difficult time and again while others seem to get away with a fraction of what we need to go through.
I agree the immigration process needs to be simplified and no amnesty should interfere with whatever is currently in process. I'm not exactly sure how it should be funded but ideally, the businesses that live off of relatively unskilled labor should take part in some way. Considering these were the businesses that were crying about their lack of workers and inability to do business when documentation for their employees was enforced.
leenak is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:24 AM   #28
rdowns
macrumors Penryn
 
rdowns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by dime21 View Post
Are you drunk? This was an exceptionally tight race. Obama won reelection due to one or two key battleground states, where the voting was 49% vs. 50%. Even the overall popular vote was only 1% or so from a tie. What landslide are you referring to? Go put some more air in your inflatable Obama love doll, it's getting low from last night.

To answer the broader question, no America has not been turning left, but the voter turnout has been, at least over the past 15 years or so. This election should be a case study in how pop-culture and the media is used to sway public opinion, particularly in the under-25 demographic. This age group is so inexperienced, uneducated, and easily coerced, and prior to the 90's, didn't have much of an interest in politics. Anyone who works in Marketing can learn a lot from this election.

Another trend one can gather from this new twitter facebook pop-culture atheist homosexual welfare entitlement voting generation, is the decline of America as a whole on the world stage. It is only as this new group of selfish me-me-me voters is getting involved in politics, that we now have to ask the question "Is America really the greatest country on earth still?". Coincidence? I think not.

You mad, bro?

Actually, America is moving brown and the Reds don't do non-white.


Quote:
U.S. Census numbers tell the story. In the first decade of the new millennium, the Asian-American population rose 43.3 percent, the African-American population 12.3 percent, the Latino community 43 percent -- and the white population just 5.7 percent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsey Graham
We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term
Cheer up, dime, I'm positive your side will be more successful in keeping Obama from a third term.
__________________
If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.

Last edited by rdowns; Nov 7, 2012 at 11:36 AM.
rdowns is offline   7 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:25 AM   #29
mcrain
Banned
 
mcrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by dime21 View Post
What landslide are you referring to?

Another trend one can gather from this new twitter facebook pop-culture atheist homosexual welfare entitlement voting generation, is the decline of America as a whole on the world stage. It is only as this new group of selfish me-me-me voters is getting involved in politics, that we now have to ask the question "Is America really the greatest country on earth still?". Coincidence? I think not.
Well, considering just about every swing state went to Obama, and he held every state he expected to win, that's a pretty big win. In every state Romney focused on, he lost. In every state Obama focused on, he won. (The one exception being North Carolina.) In addition, the Democrats picked up seats in statewide elections, and the Republicans lost districted seats despite massive efforts to make republican seats more conservative.

I find it hilarious that a generation that is more connected with twitter and facebook, less willing to impose their beliefs on others, and is more tolerant of others is somehow the "selfish" group.
mcrain is offline   8 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:29 AM   #30
leenak
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by dime21 View Post
Are you drunk? This was an exceptionally tight race. Obama won reelection due to one or two key battleground states, where the voting was 49% vs. 50%. Even the overall popular vote was only 1% or so from a tie. What landslide are you referring to? Go put some more air in your inflatable Obama love doll, it's getting low from last night.

To answer the broader question, no America has not been turning left, but the voter turnout has been, at least over the past 15 years or so. This election should be a case study in how pop-culture and the media is used to sway public opinion, particularly in the under-25 demographic. This age group is so inexperienced, uneducated, and easily coerced, and prior to the 90's, didn't have much of an interest in politics. Anyone who works in Marketing can learn a lot from this election.

Another trend one can gather from this new twitter facebook pop-culture atheist homosexual welfare entitlement voting generation, is the decline of America as a whole on the world stage. It is only as this new group of selfish me-me-me voters is getting involved in politics, that we now have to ask the question "Is America really the greatest country on earth still?". Coincidence? I think not.
The me-me-me voters? You mean the republicans who only care about tax cuts right? The ones that threatened to lay off all their workers if they couldn't get someone in office that would bring them the lowest tax rates in history while we are battling a large deficit?

I voted for Obama, not for what he personally can do for me, but what I think he can do for others. I have health care, I'm in a relatively high income bracket, I'm heterosexual, white people like me, and I consider myself relatively lucky. I do have a uterus though so I guess my vote was a little bit selfish. I think Obama cares about the general population more than Romney or any of the potential GOP candidates would have. If the GOP doesn't change, then they will find themselves out in the cold.
leenak is offline   9 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:29 AM   #31
likemyorbs
Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Send a message via AIM to likemyorbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by dime21 View Post
Are you drunk? This was an exceptionally tight race. Obama won reelection due to one or two key battleground states, where the voting was 49% vs. 50%. Even the overall popular vote was only 1% or so from a tie. What landslide are you referring to? Go put some more air in your inflatable Obama love doll, it's getting low from last night.

To answer the broader question, no America has not been turning left, but the voter turnout has been, at least over the past 15 years or so. This election should be a case study in how pop-culture and the media is used to sway public opinion, particularly in the under-25 demographic. This age group is so inexperienced, uneducated, and easily coerced, and prior to the 90's, didn't have much of an interest in politics. Anyone who works in Marketing can learn a lot from this election.

Another trend one can gather from this new twitter facebook pop-culture atheist homosexual welfare entitlement voting generation, is the decline of America as a whole on the world stage. It is only as this new group of selfish me-me-me voters is getting involved in politics, that we now have to ask the question "Is America really the greatest country on earth still?". Coincidence? I think not.
So your theory is young voters who are dumb and uneducated (which is far from the truth) are ruining your radical agenda that your party is trying to shove down everyone's throats? I dont consider approx. 3 million popular votes to be a tight race. A few million people is huge. And the electoral votes were won by a landslide, with Obama winning all the swing states. Just get over it, the GOP has lost the ideological and cultural war in this country. It's over for you, just accept it.
likemyorbs is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:36 AM   #32
AhmedFaisal
Guest
 
<snip>

Last edited by AhmedFaisal; Nov 10, 2013 at 09:24 PM.
  3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:37 AM   #33
likemyorbs
Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Send a message via AIM to likemyorbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by AhmedFaisal View Post
My wife voted Obama and since our taxes will definitely go up as we will break the 250k combined this and next year, you can hardly accuse us of being selfish.
Same goes for my family, our household income is way over 250k and we vote democrat.
likemyorbs is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:38 AM   #34
robanga
macrumors 68000
 
robanga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oregon
I think the pendulum is shifting slightly to the left yes. It can also be said the country is a lot more divided along strict lines. Polarized is an overused term.

The republican success in the house is an example, where it is hard for the left to win broadly over such a large geography. Still, in that case the winners from the GOP seem a bit more center than the last time.

And all rhetoric aside, the practice of the parties when they are in power is pretty much the same. Some would say exactly.
__________________
Soli Deo gloria
robanga is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:39 AM   #35
leenak
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
Same goes for my family, our household income is way over 250k and we vote democrat.
We are in the same boat. Both my husband and I are independents and we don't necessarily vote democrat but I can't imagine voting republican anytime soon. I'd like a 3 party system if possible, a sane republican nominee would be a good start.
leenak is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:41 AM   #36
robanga
macrumors 68000
 
robanga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oregon
Quote:
Originally Posted by leenak View Post
We are in the same boat. Both my husband and I are independents and we don't necessarily vote democrat but I can't imagine voting republican anytime soon. I'd like a 3 party system if possible, a sane republican nominee would be a good start.
We are also high income and split our votes among the parties. Very much independents although in our state our vote for President was never an issue. Its a few hundred thousand people in 4 states that elect that office.
__________________
Soli Deo gloria
robanga is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:42 AM   #37
Moyank24
macrumors 68040
 
Moyank24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: in a New York State of mind
Quote:
Originally Posted by dime21 View Post
Are you drunk? This was an exceptionally tight race. Obama won reelection due to one or two key battleground states, where the voting was 49% vs. 50%. Even the overall popular vote was only 1% or so from a tie. What landslide are you referring to? Go put some more air in your inflatable Obama love doll, it's getting low from last night.

To answer the broader question, no America has not been turning left, but the voter turnout has been, at least over the past 15 years or so. This election should be a case study in how pop-culture and the media is used to sway public opinion, particularly in the under-25 demographic. This age group is so inexperienced, uneducated, and easily coerced, and prior to the 90's, didn't have much of an interest in politics. Anyone who works in Marketing can learn a lot from this election.

Another trend one can gather from this new twitter facebook pop-culture atheist homosexual welfare entitlement voting generation, is the decline of America as a whole on the world stage. It is only as this new group of selfish me-me-me voters is getting involved in politics, that we now have to ask the question "Is America really the greatest country on earth still?". Coincidence? I think not.
Wow.

Instead of ranting and raving and insulting all of the people who voted last night, you should be looking at what those voters are telling you. You are a great example of the GOP's unwillingness to accept that this world, and our country, is evolving. They have chosen NOT to evolve, and it has cost them the Presidency.

Alienating women, latinos (who voted in record numbers), and homosexuals cost them this race - and numerous Senatorial races. It's time to recognize that we are in 2012. Wanting civil rights is not being selfish. This country was founded on the premise that ALL MEN are created equal. Isn't about time we live up to it?

For the first time, EVER, our fellow Americans voted for and passed ballot measure making gay marriage legal. Millions of heterosexuals voted for rights for homosexuals. How is that me me me?? Yesterday was a historic day for our country. It shows that there is hope. Without freedom and equality we are nothing.

For the first time in a long time, I'm proud of America. It's time to stop acting like everyone else is wrong and look in the mirror.
Moyank24 is offline   13 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:44 AM   #38
LIVEFRMNYC
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
The youth is left by a great margin, and increasing in voter numbers every election.

The Hispanic voters are leaning left. This is a huge problem when white voters are near split in swing and/or key states and is a result of the GOP's attack on the working class.

The GOP will have no choice but to become much more moderate.
LIVEFRMNYC is online now   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:47 AM   #39
BladesOfSteel
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
So your theory is young voters who are dumb and uneducated (which is far from the truth) are ruining your radical agenda that your party is trying to shove down everyone's throats? I dont consider approx. 3 million popular votes to be a tight race. A few million people is huge. And the electoral votes were won by a landslide, with Obama winning all the swing states. Just get over it, the GOP has lost the ideological and cultural war in this country. It's over for you, just accept it.
I don't mean to butt in, but my personal belief is that young voters don't take the time to actually study up on the issues. I'm not saying they are dumb or anything like that - I just think they rely on Jon Stewart, SNL and the likes of Miley Cirus to get their political news.

The good news yesterday, at least from my conservative, but not republican point of view, is that the wingbats of the party got shown the door - expect Bachman. How she survived, again, is beyond me.

The Republicans need to find that candidate that will run on a smaller government platform. In my mind, the government has no business in telling who can marry who, and while I am pro-life, I don't think the government should waste time passing laws banning it.
__________________
Let's just say I own a lot of apple products.
BladesOfSteel is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:50 AM   #40
robanga
macrumors 68000
 
robanga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oregon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
Wow.


For the first time in a long time, I'm proud of America. It's time to stop acting like everyone else is wrong and look in the mirror.
Were you not proud of America in 2008?

The truth is that the country is a political pendulum that chooses from 2 parties that are basically the same, the main differences are highly visible rhetoric topics that have very little practical bearing on the larger issues of economy, jobs etc.

Romney simply did not make a case for a plan that was credible for the chief execs office. Has the country shifted a bit left on some subjects you bet it has, but i'd like to see the real analysis on the vote for president being anything other than economic. Everything i have seen this morning seems to back that up. A couple percentage points of more of the latino vote in Florida would not have helped the situation in Virginia for instance.
__________________
Soli Deo gloria
robanga is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:50 AM   #41
BladesOfSteel
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by AhmedFaisal View Post
My wife voted Obama and since our taxes will definitely go up as we will break the 250k combined this and next year, you can hardly accuse us of being selfish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
Same goes for my family, our household income is way over 250k and we vote democrat.
Where is my Christian Bale "Oh, goooood for you" meme when I need it??

__________________
Let's just say I own a lot of apple products.
BladesOfSteel is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:52 AM   #42
Surely
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
Same goes for my family, our household income is way over 250k and we vote democrat.
Our household income is slowly working its way up there as well, and we will continue to vote Democrat (well, my wife will, and I will soon once I'm a citizen) because the majority of their views represent our views. Paying slightly higher taxes is a small price to pay for a better country with more freedom and equal rights for all.

The GOP certainly painted themselves into an uncomfortable corner.
Surely is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:53 AM   #43
LIVEFRMNYC
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by BladesOfSteel View Post
I don't mean to butt in, but my personal belief is that young voters don't take the time to actually study up on the issues. I'm not saying they are dumb or anything like that - I just think they rely on Jon Stewart, SNL and the likes of Miley Cirus to get their political news.

The good news yesterday, at least from my conservative, but not republican point of view, is that the wingbats of the party got shown the door - expect Bachman. How she survived, again, is beyond me.

The Republicans need to find that candidate that will run on a smaller government platform. In my mind, the government has no business in telling who can marry who, and while I am pro-life, I don't think the government should waste time passing laws banning it.
I'll choose to get info from Stewart over Hannity or Beck any day.

I also don't know how Bachman survived. But I'm glad McMahon got kicked to the curb after all of her own money she spent.
LIVEFRMNYC is online now   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:54 AM   #44
nebo1ss
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by barkomatic View Post
It seems that with each election, the Republican party becomes more detached from the mainstream. Gay people and gay marriage is increasingly accepted, abortion rights have been decided decades ago, and people want fairness in tax policy.

I would love to see a Republican presidential candidate who didn't pander to religious extremists and the "no compromise" Tea Party crowd. I honestly believe that at certain points, a business oriented, Republican president might be the best leader for the country. Self reliance and opportunity are good things and its too bad its always drowned out.

However, I'm happy that Obama has been re-elected and look forward to 4 more years with his administration. After that, we'll see.
I agree with a lot of what you say, the problem is you have to get the Religious nutters and the tea party on board to win the party nomination. That will make it very difficult to get a reasonable Candidate representing the Republicans. Romney during the time he was Governor was a middle of the road individual who supported Health care reform. He gave up everything he seem to believe in to get the GOP support.

They also have to accept that America is a very different place today, and they have to figure out how to broaden their appeal. You take a look at the crowds in Boston last night and those in Chicago. What I saw in Boston was an older, white crowd. In Chicago I saw a multi-ethnic, young crowd which is much more representative of America.

It is also very telling that 70 percent of Women voted for Obama. They do not want to be told what they can and cannot do with their bodies.
nebo1ss is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:55 AM   #45
AhmedFaisal
Guest
 
<snip>

Last edited by AhmedFaisal; Nov 11, 2013 at 08:07 AM.
  3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:56 AM   #46
likemyorbs
Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Send a message via AIM to likemyorbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by BladesOfSteel View Post
I don't mean to butt in, but my personal belief is that young voters don't take the time to actually study up on the issues.
I think that's a misconception. I'm 23 and i find that people my age are more
informed on the issues than many older people i get into political debates with. We're not politically active for no reason.
likemyorbs is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:58 AM   #47
DollaTwentyFive
macrumors Demi-God
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Parts Unknown
I think certainly that there is a part of the country moving to the left. Maybe not so much moving to the left as being there already. The US is becoming more and more diverse. The more diverse demographics tend to be left of center. No complaints from me - that's where I fall.

Moreover, though, I think it is that the Republican Party keeps moving to the right. First with the emphasis of religion during the Bush years and now with the rhetoric cranked into high gear with Ryan. I think most Americans don't want this much religious fundamentalism from their politicians. I know I don't.

So if the "middle of the road" marker keeps moving to the right because of GOP policies and candidates, it may give the illusion that those in the middle have now moved left. In all likelihood, they have stayed put. But the centerline has been moved beneath their feet. I know I had always considered myself in the middle up until GW Bush. Now I feel like I lean to the left. Have my views changed? Not sure. But I know I can no longer feel much in common with today's Republican Party. I could during the Reagan years but not now.

Finally, to the poster who said the GOP would be back in 2016 with the same platform. I hope so. That would guarantee a democratic win. The GOP needs to do some soul searching for the next few years and realize that they have to make some changes and adapt to the way things are today. Else they will go the way of BlackBerry in an Apple/Android world.
DollaTwentyFive is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:59 AM   #48
LIVEFRMNYC
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
I think that's a misconception. I'm 23 and i find that people my age are more
informed on the issues than many older people i get into political debates with. We're not politically active for no reason.

Most youth live 100% of their lives connected. From smartphones, tablets and notebooks, it's hard for the youth not to be informed even when they are not interested. Old campaign tricks seems to not work as good as before.
LIVEFRMNYC is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 12:02 PM   #49
BladesOfSteel
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIVEFRMNYC View Post
I'll choose to get info from Stewart over Hannity or Beck any day.

I also don't know how Bachman survived. But I'm glad McMahon got kicked to the curb after all of her own money she spent.
Com'on now... Hannity or Beck? I'd watch Stewart over those two as well. That isn't really comparing apples to apples.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AhmedFaisal View Post
You might be right, but how is that any different from the old fogies getting their information from watching Fox and listening to Rush, Glenn, Sean and Bill'O?

The statement should be we are a fastfood nation that prefers the rush of a quick juicy soundbite over the tough to chew hard bread of facts and hours of research. I have met as many old people that rather watched the latest soap than listening to the debates as I have met young ones that blather pundit ******** in an unreflected manner.

A more appropriate statement would be that the political culture in this country sucks and we spend far to little time actually thinking and educating ourselves and others about what we vote for, what our politicians do and how our countries politics work to really be deserving of the right to vote, whether we are Republican or Democrat or Independent.
It isn't.

and your last paragraph is spot on.
__________________
Let's just say I own a lot of apple products.
BladesOfSteel is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 12:03 PM   #50
NT1440
macrumors G3
 
NT1440's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hartford, CT
Quote:
Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
I think that's a misconception. I'm 23 and i find that people my age are more
informed on the issues than many older people i get into political debates with. We're not politically active for no reason.
I was amazed at the polls just listening to people chat, from old to young these voters are far more aware than I'd ever imagine. We just live in a society that values talking more about the new episode of Jersey Shore than actively discussing politics aloud, but there are far more informed people that we know.
NT1440 is offline   2 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Multitasking on GM / Public Release - Active Panel moving to left KeanosMagicHat iOS 7 2 Sep 19, 2013 04:34 AM
I'm moving to America (San F) with my unlocked iPhone 5 which is the best network? razzchicken iPhone Tips, Help and Troubleshooting 5 Jul 15, 2013 01:42 PM
sizeToFit() for UILabel is moving left. Narendar Singh iPhone/iPad Programming 10 Jul 11, 2012 10:11 AM
Resolved: FCP - Moving audio and video together when moving into timeline samstah Digital Video 2 Jun 3, 2012 07:22 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:44 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC