Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 7, 2012, 10:28 PM   #101
rjohnstone
macrumors 68030
 
rjohnstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PHX, AZ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iphoneclassic View Post
For Processor TSMC is the only source. Got rid of Samsung. Amazon is planning to buy TI.
Not true.
TSMC hasn't been able to make anything in any real volume for Apple yet.
They still rely on Samsung for primary CPU production.
__________________
"You can't really dust for vomit" - Nigel Tuffnel
Some Apple *****, some Android ***** and some Windows based *****.
rjohnstone is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:37 PM   #102
hrishidev
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Well, I think people are forgetting something

A company called Apple got some investment of $150 million from Microsoft &
stayed afloat for some time. Later on , because of its own innovations & strategies became most valued company in the World.


So please don't label Sharp as bad company, It might need some helping hand to come out of its financial trouble
hrishidev is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:41 PM   #103
iChrist
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: 3 countries for tax benefit
Quote:
Originally Posted by iThinkIt View Post
this is how real bailouts should happen.. business helping business.. not tax money wasted.


It's not a bailout, genius.



__________________
"We should think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone--an image made by man's design and skill."
iChrist is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:52 PM   #104
Ramchi
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: India
Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishake View Post
Why not just buy Sharp at a steep discount?
And to pay all its steep debts and liabilities?
Ramchi is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:57 PM   #105
vvswarup
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
They will. Apple winning $1 billion by suing Samsung and loosing $2 billion because it had to prop Sharp to get the components they could easily get from Samsung. That makes perfect economic sense (and APPL trend proves it).
It also makes perfect economic sense for Apple, with $121 billion in the bank, to sit there and let Sharp fail, removing competition for Samsung, a major supplier of parts, allowing Samsung to take Apple to the cleaners in the future.

It makes even more sense to let manufacturing capacity get wiped out of the industry, especially when Apple frequently struggles to have enough product on hand to meet demand.
vvswarup is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 12:16 AM   #106
thejadedmonkey
macrumors 604
 
thejadedmonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Pa
Send a message via AIM to thejadedmonkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by NT1440 View Post
What do you mean by "had they played nice" when only referring to Apple? Or was the "they" all encompassing (Apple & Samsung)?

I may have mistaken your wording on that last post.
I meant apple when I said "they", I feel like they were a bit too heavy handed with their suits against Samsung. However, I also stated (It may not have been a reply to you) that it takes two to tango, and Samsung is also at fault.

Either way, the point I was trying to make was that had Apple and Samsung been able to come to a better (less bitter) understanding, Apple wouldn't be in the position where they need to prop up Sharp to avoid Samsung.
__________________
MacBook • 17" MacBook Pro • iPod Nano • Apple TV
PS4 • Custom Windows 8.1 Desktop • WP8.1
"Good judgment comes from experience,
experience comes from bad judgment."
- Mulla Nasrudin
thejadedmonkey is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 12:41 AM   #107
subsonix
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post
It also makes perfect economic sense for Apple, with $121 billion in the bank, to sit there and let Sharp fail, removing competition for Samsung, a major supplier of parts, allowing Samsung to take Apple to the cleaners in the future.
Especially if it's actually spent on pre-orders as the article speculates on, then it's really just an advance payment.
subsonix is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 03:44 AM   #108
runonthespot
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
The obvious reason Apple doesn't want to buy Sharp, is that it doesn't want to get in a bidding war with an equally deep pocketed Samsung... who know that without Sharp, Apple falls into their arms.
runonthespot is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 04:03 AM   #109
everything-i
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbo132 View Post
Nice to see Apple playing nicely for once rather than suing!
Suing - for what? Suing a company because it is about to go bust, this doesn't make any sense.
everything-i is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 05:29 AM   #110
ConCat
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: In an ethereal plane of existence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
Someone mentioned "Sharp"'s HDTV market "dried up".

Not entirely true. "Pioneer", which was arguably one of the best plasma TV manufacturers, closed their "Elite" plasma division a few years ago. "Panasonic" and "Sharp" bought most of "Pioneer"'s tech, with "Sharp" securing the rights to "Kuru" technology.

"Sharp" has released an amazing LED LCD that rivals the blacks on plasma's (most videophiles prefer plasma display's for their deeper blacks that LED LCD's have difficulty in displaying due to the nature of the tech). I'd wager "bailing out" "Sharp" may be due to Apple's use of "Sharp" technology in the rumored television. Remember, Apple stores used "Pioneer" plasma's for their "AppleTV" displays (now "Sony" is their goto manufacturer). Since "Sharp" owns "Pioneer"'s "Kuru" tech and is making strides in that market, it's a rather safe wager.

http://elitelcdtv.com

Notice "Sharp" isn't branded any where on the product, however the company is the manufacturer.
Holy quotations batman!
ConCat is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 05:32 AM   #111
hamkor04
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlez View Post
Suing for good reason is hardly being mean. How would you like it if someone came along and stole your designs that you work on all year round.
How about Mexican company (ifone) and pissing at other patent holders faces?
__________________
“All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.”
hamkor04 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 06:22 AM   #112
mkjj
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Liverpool
Apple and Sharp go way back, Sharp made the original MessagePads and even made a Sharp designed one themselves using the Newton OS.

__________________
Here's to the crazy ones...
mkjj is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 06:37 AM   #113
iphoneclassic
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by fertilized-egg View Post
LG has been primary source for LCDs for years now, even before Apple got into spats with Samsung. Also Apple now has Sharp, Japan Display, AUO, and CMI all supplying various displays.



Both Hynix and Elpida have been supplying RAM for years now. Ditto for Hynix and Toshiba for NAND Memory.



TI has nothing to do with Apple here. TI's OMAP division relies on others to make chips for them. It's more of the nature of the business though. You effectively have to make two versions of the chips if you're getting two fabs involved.

Basically I don't see anywhere Apple has "cornered" itself to a single primary source because of the fight with Samsung. In almost all areas they have been multi-sourcing for years.
You are naming all suppliers Apple ever used in the past or other players in the field. Apple's direction is towards single sourcing.

Apple wants TSMC to dedicate one fab location.
iphoneclassic is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 06:52 AM   #114
SactoGuy18
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA USA
Send a message via Yahoo to SactoGuy18
I think Apple wants Sharp's display technology for another reason: Sharp will provide the big display panels for the much-rumored Apple television set, one that Apple may have already prototyped using older display technology to demonstrate the software and interface of such a future set.

Imagine a beautiful IGZO-based AMOLED panel in the 55" to 65" range that will be used on a real Apple television set, one that integrates control of a DVR, Blu-ray player and online video sources from a singular control interface based on iOS.....
__________________
3G iPod nano (8 GB teal blue case), 7G iPod nano (16 GB blue case), 4G iPod touch (32 GB), iPad Air "Silver" (32 GB), iPhone 6 (64 GB Space Grey)
SactoGuy18 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 07:23 AM   #115
TallManNY
macrumors 68000
 
TallManNY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc11 View Post
Just playing the other side here but why didn't the reporter of this story go the extra step to check Sharps annual or quarterly reports for a loan or cash in flow not related to sales for the same amount? If Apple invested or loaned Sharp cash it has to show.

And no wonder so many people are broke in this world. Stop with the Apple should just buy x company. That is not how things work. Just because you have cash in the bank does not mean you need to spend every penny on any company you complete with or do business with.
It isn't described as a loan, it is described as a prepayment for goods to be delivered later. So it is really income. But Sharp would not recognize it as income in the quarter it received it because it hasn't delivered the goods yet and doesn't have them on hand to deliver if it wanted (at least that would be the tax result in the US). I'm not sure how the money should show up on their financials based on accounting rules. But it isn't a loan and it might not be required to show up separately in cash flow though it might be baked into the total number in a way that can't be figured out.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoGuy18 View Post
I think Apple wants Sharp's display technology for another reason: Sharp will provide the big display panels for the much-rumored Apple television set, one that Apple may have already prototyped using older display technology to demonstrate the software and interface of such a future set.

Imagine a beautiful IGZO-based AMOLED panel in the 55" to 65" range that will be used on a real Apple television set, one that integrates control of a DVR, Blu-ray player and online video sources from a singular control interface based on iOS.....
Yes, I can imagine that. Once a TV of that quality is available from any manufacturer, I can plug my AppleTV into it and basically have that. I don't DVR because my shows are all available in the cloud for instant download. Please do not mention Blu-ray being on an Apple product. That technology is clearly dead to Apple.
__________________
Mid-2011 3.1GHz i5 iMac (6970m); Late-2007 Macbook; HP Spectre (Win 8.1)
BBRY Q10; iPhone 5; iPad Mini-R
Apple Stockholder (a nice dividend, stock buybacks and cutting edge innovation? yes please!)
TallManNY is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 07:39 AM   #116
the8thark
macrumors 68040
 
the8thark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrishidev View Post
Well, I think people are forgetting something

A company called Apple got some investment of $150 million from Microsoft &
stayed afloat for some time. Later on , because of its own innovations & strategies became most valued company in the World.
I thought MS only helped Apple out to get MS itself in a better light vs the "being a monopoly" lawsuits MS was facing at the time.
__________________
Congress shall make no law . . . prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press.
the8thark is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 08:41 AM   #117
xofruitcake
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallManNY View Post
I'm not sure how the money should show up on their financials based on accounting rules. But it isn't a loan and it might not be required to show up separately in cash flow though it might be baked into the total number in a way that can't be figured out..
Probably under current liability -> deferred revenue. It is a very common occurance when a company receive payment in advance of goods delivered. e.g. insurance company collect premium once every 6 month or a year in advance, so they have a lot of deferred revenue. Apple has some of deferred revenue as well. As Sharp start to deliver product to Apple, the amount they deliver each quarter will show up in the income statement and the amount in deferred revenue will be reduce by the exact same number.

The risk here is that if Sharp fold, the $2B prepayment for product is very low in the claim priority and more than likely Apple will be out most of the 2B. But if Sharp can maintain their operation, the 2B prepayment is money good. The key is whether Sharp really get the IGZO production problem fix. If they do, Apple demand for the product will be hugh and Sharp will probably make it.

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/viewer?ac...8&xbrl_type=v#
xofruitcake is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 09:18 AM   #118
gnasher729
macrumors G5
 
gnasher729's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by runonthespot View Post
The obvious reason Apple doesn't want to buy Sharp, is that it doesn't want to get in a bidding war with an equally deep pocketed Samsung... who know that without Sharp, Apple falls into their arms.
Are you saying that Samsung would buy competitors, in order to become a monopoly in the LCD display market, and in order to then abuse their monopoly to destroy competition in the tablet and phone market?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrishidev View Post
Well, I think people are forgetting something

A company called Apple got some investment of $150 million from Microsoft &
stayed afloat for some time. Later on , because of its own innovations & strategies became most valued company in the World.
Actually, that's not what happened. A company named Microsoft unfortunately got caught redhanded with copies of Apple's Quicktime code inside Windows. Some serious negotiations went on, and Microsoft signed a deal to hand over $150 million, plus ship versions of Microsoft Office and Explorer for Mac for the next 5 years.

(Now it is most likely that it wasn't actually Microsoft who stole the code, but a company that they hired to write video codecs for them, but legally it makes no difference).

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard View Post
Say somebody breaks into your house and steals all of your gadgets and gets caught. If you pursue legal action against them you are being nice following the socially accepted way to resolve the issue. If you wack them over the head and dispose of their bodies in a swamp you aren't being so nice. Either path can be effective in dealing with a thief but one can get you into more trouble.
I know someone who was told, by a police officer, not to take any physical actions for the next six months... with the clear meaning that if anything happened within six months, the burglary victim would be a suspect, and after six months, they wouldn't.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by HishamAkhtar View Post
Honestly, Apple is hurting for it's childish behaviour with Samsung. Samsung has been the best and most reliable supplier and stopping relations with them was the dumbest idea ever.
I wouldn't call Samsung "reliable", they have for example been convicted for illegal price gouging several times in the last year, they have been convicted for stealing patents, they have without any doubt copied designs of their biggest customer.

So Apple is paying money, which they have plenty of, to make sure that someone they trust will be supplying the best LCD screens. Very sensible thing to do.
gnasher729 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 09:43 AM   #119
Rocketman
macrumors 603
 
Rocketman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Claremont, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Dediu has much more on the spending and his analysis at Asymco.
Here is the chart of over/under capex vs projected. It is in tick-tock mode.

Rocketman

Now's the time for a stock buy-back. They can even buy their own stock in foreign jurisdictions where the cash is, and the taxes are lower.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen-Shot-2012-11-07-at-11-7-1.24.40-PM.png
Views:	7
Size:	15.8 KB
ID:	375862  
__________________
Think Different-ly!
All 357 R or D House jobs bills over 4 years died in the D Senate, ordered by the D President. Buy a model rocket here: http://v-serv.com/usr/instaship-visual.htm Thanks.
Rocketman is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 09:43 AM   #120
bedifferent
macrumors Demi-God
 
bedifferent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConCat View Post
Holy quotations batman!
hee hee I was waiting for someone to comment on that LOL
bedifferent is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 10:02 AM   #121
TallManNY
macrumors 68000
 
TallManNY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by xofruitcake View Post
Probably under current liability -> deferred revenue. It is a very common occurance when a company receive payment in advance of goods delivered. e.g. insurance company collect premium once every 6 month or a year in advance, so they have a lot of deferred revenue. Apple has some of deferred revenue as well. As Sharp start to deliver product to Apple, the amount they deliver each quarter will show up in the income statement and the amount in deferred revenue will be reduce by the exact same number.

The risk here is that if Sharp fold, the $2B prepayment for product is very low in the claim priority and more than likely Apple will be out most of the 2B. But if Sharp can maintain their operation, the 2B prepayment is money good. The key is whether Sharp really get the IGZO production problem fix. If they do, Apple demand for the product will be hugh and Sharp will probably make it.

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/viewer?ac...8&xbrl_type=v#
Thanks. Yeah, that makes sense. I wonder if this prepayment could be applied to a variety of items beyond just the screens. Sharp can probably make something that Apple can use, so as long as it stays in business, it can repay this payment even if the screens don't work out.
__________________
Mid-2011 3.1GHz i5 iMac (6970m); Late-2007 Macbook; HP Spectre (Win 8.1)
BBRY Q10; iPhone 5; iPad Mini-R
Apple Stockholder (a nice dividend, stock buybacks and cutting edge innovation? yes please!)
TallManNY is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 10:34 AM   #122
iLLUMI
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
So IGZO? or no IGZO?
iLLUMI is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:31 AM   #123
xofruitcake
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallManNY View Post
Thanks. Yeah, that makes sense. I wonder if this prepayment could be applied to a variety of items beyond just the screens. Sharp can probably make something that Apple can use, so as long as it stays in business, it can repay this payment even if the screens don't work out.
no, I don't think so.. It is screen or nothing. Apple horizontal business model trade maximum efficiency (ala Samsung model of vertical integration) for maximum flexibility. If technology change, Apple can find the best vendors for a particular piece of components, so they are constantly ahead in the technology race. The downside is that the cost will be higher and Apple has less control in the vendor's priority (e.g. TSMC doesn't want to dedicate a fab line to Apple product and there is nothing that Apple can do). And Sharp only do screen really well (otherwise, they won't be close to bk now..). So it is either LCD panel or bust for Apple. The risk is not too bad given Apple big cash stake. The reward is going to be fast technology on LCD and Apple desperately need that since they are locked into fixed resolution in Ipad and Iphone to protect apps ecosystems. So they need screen that has lower resolution than Andorid device but looks better.. it is a neat trick if they can pull it off (ala Iphone 5 vs Samsung S3) but it is going to be a constant race until everyone is retina and there is no point of improving resolution anymore...
xofruitcake is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:51 AM   #124
TMay
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Carson City, NV
Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
You can sugar coat what they are doing all you want. They still paid 2B out of pocket which they may or may not ever see again.



If Sharp can stay in business long enough. Who knows.

----------



Apple isn't infallible. Companies make poor purchasing or business deals all the time. Time will tell.
Seriously.

Tim Cook is the acknowledged master of the supply chain, and you don't think that he at Apple and the other investors have a stipulation in the contracts to take over the operation in the case of a Sharp default?

More to the point, Apple would be investing in production only if the process for manufacturing IGZO displays has met successful pilot production goals.

Your have thought processes that never fail to amaze, but to sugar coat it, you always exceed expectations.
TMay is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 12:26 PM   #125
samcraig
macrumors G5
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMay View Post
Seriously.

Tim Cook is the acknowledged master of the supply chain, and you don't think that he at Apple and the other investors have a stipulation in the contracts to take over the operation in the case of a Sharp default?

More to the point, Apple would be investing in production only if the process for manufacturing IGZO displays has met successful pilot production goals.

Your have thought processes that never fail to amaze, but to sugar coat it, you always exceed expectations.
You missed the point. And you don't like being called out on the fact that what you stated to the OP (and with snark) is your assumption with bias. It's cool.

Perhaps you need to go back to the original exchange and reread it.
samcraig is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apple Announces $13 Billion Payout to Developers, 60 Billion Cumulative App Downloads MacRumors iOS Blog Discussion 4 Oct 22, 2013 03:43 PM
Apple's App Store Reaches 50 Billion Downloads, Now on Pace for 20 Billion Apps Per Year MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 80 May 16, 2013 11:42 AM
Sharp to tap Samsung, banks for survival after $5.4 billion loss bobenhaus Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices 2 May 14, 2013 12:59 PM
Apple Announces 40 Billion App Store Downloads, Nearly 20 Billion in 2012 MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 100 Jan 10, 2013 11:17 AM
Apple Reports Results for Q3 2012: $8.8 Billion Profit on $35 Billion in Revenue MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 274 Jul 27, 2012 08:06 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:38 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC