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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:38 AM   #126
foxnews1
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Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
I guess you don't understand the fundamentals and the difference between that and Apple.
would you mind educate me on these fundamentals?
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:39 AM   #127
luist3k
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Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
That's funny. They only released 2 new products this year...Mac Book Retina and iPad Mini...I guess that's not enough new revenue sources. Then they released the iPad 3 & 4, the iPhone 5, the new iMac and iPod Nano.

You people are absolutely clueless. This company has the strongest fundamentals and product line-up of ANY company in any segment in the world.

But hey...keep bashing it. When their sales are through the roof at XMas...come on back.
Product iterations are not new source of revenues.

iPad Mini could be one, but let's see what happens to revenues and margins. Specially to iPod and iPad 3/4 sales.

And it is true that fundamentals are the strongest, that's why it is trading at that price. It is already considered. Do you actually know anything about valuations or you are just a MacHead?
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:39 AM   #128
Ryth
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Originally Posted by Ramchi View Post
You are right but supply seems to be bigger problem! You can't launch a product with 15000 iPhones in India.
Agreed...but would you rather.

1) Have demand and can't make it (which only drives up demand more)

2) Have no demand and lots of product on shelves and warehouse (see Android).

I'll take #1 any day
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:39 AM   #129
SeniorGato1
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The % drop is greater than in previous years.

Additional factors:

-Some people prefer bigger screens (I do!)

-Android 4.1+ is much more stable and faster than previous Android generations (In terms of quality, IMO they caught up with Apple)

-Simultaneous voice & data on CDMA networks is supported on every LTE phone except Apple's. (Cmon Apple!)

-Google Maps and turn by turn is superior

-Google voice functions are far superior (your words appear on the screen as you talk)

-Apple's innovation is slowing down (Where's the Apple TV?)

-Markets are saturated with plenty of Apple products


If I were to do it over again, I'd spend $350 on the upcoming Google Android 4.2 phone vs the $750 I spent on the iphone 5.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:40 AM   #130
nutjob
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Apple is in crisis. Everyone knows it now.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:41 AM   #131
Ryth
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Originally Posted by luist3k View Post
Product iterations are not new source of revenues.

iPad Mini could be one, but let's see what happens to revenues and margins. Specially to iPod and iPad 3/4 sales.

And it is true that fundamentals are the strongest, that's why it is trading at that price. It is already considered. Do you actually know anything about valuations or you are just a MacHead?
Valuations are a myth. No one knows what is priced into a stock. If that was the case, then the stock market tanking would have already been priced in BEFORE the election results and there wouldn't have been a sell off like we had the day after.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:42 AM   #132
duffmanth
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It must be nice to be one of these moron stock analysts...throw out all of these bogus predictions and getting paid pretty well at the same time. I think Apple has plateaued somewhat, they need some fresh new products and designs next year, hopefully with Sir Ive at the healm, this will happen.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:43 AM   #133
mccldwll
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Originally Posted by luist3k View Post
$AAPL is a great company with solid numbers (amazing cash-flow, no debt, you name it) and is highly innovative (capability to generate new revenue sources).

BUT... a stock value is built in confidence. And (this is only my opinion) Tim Cook has done a very bad job at this. EDIT: Confidence on expected earnings realisation, of course.

I've been hearing the guy at the conferences calls and compared his tone to the one he uses at keynotes. You can totally tell that he is a fake. Jobs was authentic, and he had investors enchanted.

If you use Apple products, you can tell that lately they have got sloppy. And Cook "I'm sorry" letters have shattered the Jobs confidence shield. What Jobs did well was actually NOT accepting his errors. This is the investors' language, talk to any trader and he will never say he is sorry. They will come with a new convincing rationalisation.

As a trader myself, I'm looking for any of the next signals from this company:
1. Current SKUs reduction (Jobs 2x2 MBA matrix).
2. Venturing into new markets (TV's, Watches, anything that uses screens and processors).
3. Removal of Tim Cook as a CEO.
4. Winning the patent war against Samsung.
5. New breakthrough technology.

The two main problems at Apple are:
1. It's losing its differentiation (look at the margins).
2. Not creating new revenue sources.

You're a student who has been using Mac products for a year and you say aapl is getting sloppy? You say the Street doesn't have confidence in TC and he's a fake? Okaaaaaaaaaaaaay.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:44 AM   #134
theluggage
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Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
Maybe they should make another model?
Instead of running ads to convince people that they don't want a screen wider than their thumb, they need to re-think their 'only one current iPhone' (+ last year's model for cheapskates) strategy. Maybe:

- An iPhone 'mini' for people who want an iPod/phone.
- The regular iPhone
- A 4.5-5" iPhone 'phablet'

Before you say this is an un-Apple thing to do, consider:

* Macbooks come in a choice of sizes
* iMacs come in a choice of sizes
* iPods come in a choice of sizes
* Now, the iPad comes in a choice of sizes...

It will be interesting to see how Google's sales go now that they have a 4.7" phone, a 7" tablet and a 10" tablet.

Also, the time may be coming to consider adding 'widgets'. I think they were sensible to avoid these to start with: I had an early-ish Android phone and it was far to easy to load it up with widgets and background tasks until the basic functions ground to a halt. However, with dual/quad core processors and more RAM, modern mobile devices can cope with this, as shown by the Galaxy S3 and Note 2.

Of course, OS X has had widgets for years in the form of Dashboard - possibly neglected because they live on their own page of desktop that has to be explicitly chosen.

Ultimately, though, Apple now have to deal with the fact that after a long honeymoon in the mobile arena, they've finally got credible competition in the form of the Nexus 7, the Galaxy S3 and Note 2.

Ironically, I suspect that Apple's legal Jihad might have helped convince their competitors to quit the slavish copying (e.g. the earlier Galaxy models) and start offering fresh ideas and more choice...
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:46 AM   #135
MacFather
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No wonder, the biggest iOS innovation is 5th row of icons.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:46 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggie View Post
If nothing else, I'd suggest one thing they need to sort out in the old UI for iOS products.

Even the latest iPad4 and Mini and basically using the exact same old dead icon grid that the very 1st iPhone launched with.

The Microsoft Surface with it's life titles giving you information without having to run programs is just showing how out of date Apple's UI is even more.
Right, keep changing the UI to keep people struggling and second guessing.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:46 AM   #137
Ryth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duffmanth View Post
It must be nice to be one of these moron stock analysts...throw out all of these bogus predictions and getting paid pretty well at the same time. I think Apple has plateaued somewhat, they need some fresh new products and designs next year, hopefully with Sir Ive at the healm, this will happen.
Tell me what 'fresh' products you think they should have. Only thing I can think of is the TV...because right now...they've got everything else covered.

There is only so much you can innovate every few years if even at that.

We had the iPod & iTunes in early 2000s, the iPhone in 2007 and the iPad in 2010. That's pretty amazing and staggering consider how it literally changed 3 industries literally overnight.

iPod/iTunes changed music forever
iPhone changed mobile forever
iPad changed PCs forever

No other company can lay claim to this. Yet for some reason they aren't innovative enough. They've changed the size and weight of the laptop, the size and weight of the all in one PC, etc.

So other then the TV, you are not going to see something 'new'...because there isn't really much else they can change up in the world.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:48 AM   #138
MyMacintosh
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Originally Posted by spiderman0616 View Post
More fear mongering to artificially bring down the stock price. What the press and Wall Street are doing to Apple's stock price should be illegal. It's really not fair. Why do we all of a sudden expect them to put out a groundbreaking new product category every 6 months? They never have operated like that and they never will. No company can.

I think the main problem here is that people are bored. Tech pundits, Wall Street, etc. think everything is a yawn now--and they say that mostly to generate clicks. Throw Apple in the title, and that's probably triple the clicks you would normally get. Is Google innovating at every turn? Nope. Android is in refinement stages too. The biggest innovation we've seen lately is actually Windows Phone, and even that is still just holding a glass rectangle, launching apps by clicking an icon, etc.

Maybe nobody has come out with the next big thing yet because the next big thing is not necessary. Maybe we have what we need right now: Information at our fingertips at all times, super fast internet speeds on the go, phones that can control our houses and cars, tablets and computers that are razor thin and light as a feather, etc. Is Google Glass the next big thing? Some think so. I see it more as another way for Google to stick annoying ads in front of my face, but that's just my opinion. After that--what else do we have?

Ugh--I don't know why people expect Apple to innovate at an unrealistic pace. They're being held to a standard that they weren't even held to when Jobs was in charge. I don't understand.
You answered your own question. They might be seeing stagnation and want to sell. The stock market is full or sharks. Everybody wants to be the first one out, not to baghold. Its like a game of hot potato or musical chairs in a sense.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:48 AM   #139
iLLUMI
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"A juicy red Apple is nice, but, not every Apple is red."

Apple are still shining, they just need to polish up their product line somewhat. The previous minor updates have been fine and yes their product line is fine but I'm guessing from a stock market perspective they need to come up with something that's a little more revolutionary than merely just a "bigger iPhone" and a "smaller iPad".
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:49 AM   #140
Ryth
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Originally Posted by iLLUMI View Post
"A juicy red Apple is nice, but, not every Apple is red."

Apple are still shining, they just need to polish up their product line somewhat. The previous minor updates have been fine and yes their product line is fine but I'm guessing from a stock market perspective they need to come up with something that's a little more revolutionary than merely just a "bigger iPhone" and a "smaller iPad".
Its more then Android/Samsung is doing.

But hey...look I can tap phones and share a playlist...OMG.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:50 AM   #141
spoonie1972
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this is just the way the rich manipulate things so they can buy more stock.

everyone panic!.

not being a stock holder, i'm not really caring too much. it wont make a lick of difference in R&D, day to day, or whatever with that ridiculous cash reserve.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:50 AM   #142
buddybd
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Was bound to happen anyway, Law of Large Numbers.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:50 AM   #143
bluski9
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Apple has lost it's way ever since they starting concentrating so much on the iphone and letting their other hardware suffer from innovation..Not everyone wants the slimmest phone or computer..People like to upgrade the ram, harddrive, change the battery etc etc.

I for one haven't upgraded from my 3gs to the 4,4S or 5 because I really don't see any real value to do it..Yes they have better cameras, cpu etc but there isn't any real WOW factor that will make me change to the new iphone when my 3gs does what i need it to do..You can't even send people files through bluetooth..This is something so basic yet they stifled the phone from doing it.

And then there's the Imac, which was very disappointing in my opinion..Can't upgrade the inside except if you buy the 27"..So now I will wait again till 2013 to see if they come out with something better that appeals to me and is upgradeable.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:51 AM   #144
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When a light bulb burns out in the executive washroom of a Fortune 500 company, the Wall Street lemmings come out and say it's all over, the company is finished, sell your stock now! That's because there is money in doom and gloom. They panic smaller institutional and individual investors into selling off in a panic, then they move in and pick up those shares at bargain prices and ride them on up again. Apple is just the cash cow du jour. In the late 80's it was GE and a handful of other solid companies. This is just more Wall St. BS at work.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:52 AM   #145
Purant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
Tell me what 'fresh' products you think they should have. Only thing I can think of is the TV...because right now...they've got everything else covered.
How about a decent desktop computer?

Quote:
iPod/iTunes changed music forever
iPhone changed mobile forever
iPad changed PCs forever
I'll give you the iPhone one. The iPod/iTunes is debatable but you can take that too.

But iPad changed PCs? How?
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:53 AM   #146
RonDMC
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The people calling $200 a share are hilarious! You do realize if Apple closed it's doors tomorrow and handed back cash on hand to investors each share would be still worth around $120. The people calling Apple overvalued are nuts! Do you just look at the share price and say to yourself yep too high, overvalued, what are you basing that call on? It has a lower PE than Microsoft, Google, Amazon etc and higher growth and profits. Also please stop saying it has missed earnings, it hasn't missed earnings at all, it has missed analyst estimates.

People are mentioning iPhone and iPad share in decline, you do realize that the overall global smartphone and tablet market is growing each year so while Apples share may be shrinking they are selling more phones and tablets than ever before. Androids market share increases because it is on every phone at every possible price point. Apple isn't after high volume, low profit sales.

The next major catalyst will be the China mobile deal. China has 1.3 billion people, even if it only captures 5% of the market that is 55 million iPhone sales in China alone.

People have incredibly unrealistic expectations of Apple and expect it to release the next "big" thing every few years and if they don't beat analyst estimates by a fair margin each quarter they are punished while the likes of Amazon with a PE of 2732 and a last quarter net loss of 274 million gets rewarded.

Anyway hold through to Jan and you will be rewarded.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:56 AM   #147
ElRojito
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People are either positive or doom and gloom, but my question is: If Apple left, who would take over? Personally, I find Google products, Android Products etc to be very tacky and the design is just... lame. Who else is booming? It doesn't seem like anyone is climing up the ladder like Apple has done. Therefore, I'm not that worried.

As far as changing the iOS -- it's fine as is. Change it too much and people will hate it because they won't understand it anymore. Someone said that Windows 8 just goes to show how iOS is aging.... false, windows 8 is garbage and I'd have a seizure after staring at that for a few hours.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:56 AM   #148
m1kygarcia
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Here we Go the result of letting "B" people get control, Tim Cook seems the guy who only works from 9 to 5, go home and farts money just because he can afford it, he does not care about how to improve the technology, he only cares about pleasing everyone, you can see that by his presentations of every launch, he only explains numbers and sales, not the main reason of the event, THE PRODUCT.

you want to know why Steve Jobs handled the company like he used to?, is as simple as he was "in the cold mine", he was right there were the action happened, you may call it micro managing, but if thatīs what it took to get Apple where is now, so be it.

The "magic" of Apple resides in small groups without communication between each other, thatīs the true meaning of the hole secret aura, to maintain the vision of what is THE best way to improve a product, not just because they didnīt want leaked stuff, which by the way this year alone had so many products leaked than the entire Steve Jobs era.

like iīve said before, Tim Cook is the new Jhon Sculley, an example? here it is, he is confusing people even at Apple making changes, and launching products like thereīs no tomorrow.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:58 AM   #149
BrockC
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Originally Posted by slrandall View Post
I was pretty impressed by Apple's hardware advancements this year.

Not so much with the software.
I agree completely, this is my favorite year of releases ever! New iPhone, new MBPR, new iMac, new iPod lineup, new iPads and many other notable products.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:58 AM   #150
Ramchi
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Isn't that Wall St itself failed miserably and to see them evaluating Apple stock is cruel joke. But Apple loyalists were clapping when it was going up!
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